[europeanbob]

I have to admit to being a trifle jealous of fans of other titles. I played Uncharted a bit, didn't really get into it so much - very linear.

"The Last Of Us" - Naughty Dog's next title - is interesting in a couple of ways. First, I think it totally puts paid to the "GTAV on Next Gen" debate: it's going to ship Q2 2013, and it's a Playstation 3 exclusive. Not only does it look incredible (better than GTA, IMHO) but Sony are spending the money on a key PS3 title when they should be thinking about launch titles (it's well known PS4 stuff is well underway already).

What really gets me is the amount of information out about it; proper game play trailers and story information, and I find the whole thing pretty exciting. R*, on the other hand, has totally gone in the other direction - GTA V is supposed to launch before TLOS, and we don't even have a storyline, let alone official game play. They've probably been in dev about the same amount of time - GTA V probably longer - but the approach is 180' different.

I wonder if R* are really doing this in the right way. GTA is always going to be exciting - but it does feel like they're missing some tricks here.

[WhatThe?]

They want to keep most of Gta a surprise..

[Snake Without a Tongue]

R* only does this for GTA. Max Payne, RDR, Noire, all got extensive marketing. It's like a fat girl that puts out, versus a hot chick who drinks for free.

[Killjoy2022]

they're completely different games, The Last Of Us looks brilliant yeah, but almost all of the trailers and screenshots have been treated. We've not got much info on GTA V yet because Rockstar normally don't kick the marketing train into gear for this years titles til around this time, October/November, look at how much marketing MP3 got just after the GTA V reveal, once we see the next Rockstar game be revealed we'll know the info train is on the rails and running. It's impossible to compare The Last Of Us to GTA V, The Last Of Us seems to be just as linear as Uncharted, I loved the Uncharted franchise, and I will be picking up The Last Of Us, but tbh, the only comparison you could make with The Last Of Us is Resident Evil or Black Ops 3.

[Msharingan]

The Last of Us is amazing in that it is a dynamic game. AI and Combat the we should really be seeing in GTA by this point.

They, to my knowledge, have only shown gameplay of one section of the game. The fact that the AI is so adaptive means that they don't need to show constant setpieces (Uncharted 3) but that the scope of the game, hidden in the details, shows for itself.

GTA V is probably counting on big suprises in the weeks up the the game launch (amount of protaganists, scope of the city) to secure purchases. The Last of Us, a new IP, needs to sell itself.

[Killjoy2022]

QUOTE (Msharingan @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:20)

The Last of Us is amazing in that it is a dynamic game. AI and Combat the we should really be seeing in GTA by this point. They, to my knowledge, have only shown gameplay of one section of the game. The fact that the AI is so adaptive means that they don't need to show constant setpieces (Uncharted 3) but that the scope of the game, hidden in the details, shows for itself. GTA V is probably counting on big suprises in the weeks up the the game launch (amount of protaganists, scope of the city) to secure purchases. The Last of Us, a new IP, needs to sell itself.

question, how do you plan to compensate for the advanced AI and Combat system from a linear game in a massive open world game?

[MosquitoSmasher]

We don't know an awful lot about this game either. We know the two important characters, alittle bit on what the story is and we have seen cutscene trailers and one gameplay video that is always played the same way. Until last week by the way, they had shown a new route during PAX Prime 2012.

Sure it's more than GTA V, but there's still alot to learn about this game and it doesn't have a concrete releasedate either.

[Zee]

f*ck Naughty Dog. I remember reading in Jacked: The Story of Grand Theft Auto that the head of Naughty Dog talked massive sh*t about GTAIII before it came out.

[Adriaan]

QUOTE (europeanbob @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 19:08)

but Sony are spending the money on a key PS3 title when they should be thinking about launch titles (it's well known PS4 stuff is well underway already).

So because they have new hardware coming up they should ignore an established platform? That's like saying that if the Coca Cola company brings out a new drink they should stop advertising Coke Classic.

Anyway, yeah, it's quite clear what the differential is: GTAV is a highly anticipated game that gets a lot of excitement even when all it had was a logo. It was trending on twitter globally just because of a logo. Whereas The Last of Us is a new IP that not only needs promotion, but the company needs to talk more about it and give consumers a greater sense of what it's all about.

Rockstar does the same with games like L.A. Noire or Red Dead Redemption when you have a game that cost around 100 million dollars to develop and there's absolutely no guarantee that people will just buy it if you release it... so hence more satiated marketing.

[Msharingan]

QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:14)

they're completely different games, The Last Of Us looks brilliant yeah, but almost all of the trailers and screenshots have been treated. We've not got much info on GTA V yet because Rockstar normally don't kick the marketing train into gear for this years titles til around this time, October/November, look at how much marketing MP3 got just after the GTA V reveal, once we see the next Rockstar game be revealed we'll know the info train is on the rails and running. It's impossible to compare The Last Of Us to GTA V, The Last Of Us seems to be just as linear as Uncharted, I loved the Uncharted franchise, and I will be picking up The Last Of Us, but tbh, the only comparison you could make with The Last Of Us is Resident Evil or Black Ops 3.

I really don't think so.

The Last of Us is a hybrid-sandbox game, similar to Crysis 2. Compared to Uncharted's setpiece > combat > setpiece > puzzle flow, it is entirely different (based on the information we have available). It is several sandbox areas, in which things are very dynamic and reactive, linked by linear paths. The demo's have shown that you have choice in how you approach the game, and that enemies do not have a linear response to your actions. Some get scared and run, some will challenge you.

I would say that at this point GTA IV is similarly linear, as all games need to be linear to a point. Sure the linear paths connecting each mission are wider, but they are still restricted.


And in response to Killjoy2022's question:
AI does demand resources, but it is mostly just being smart with programming. "How would ____ react if a gun was put to his head?", "Would everyone react that way". Impressive AI can be as simple as seeing an irresponsible driver get into a collision and drive off, rather than all drivers being resposible. Or seeing a fight begin because a drunk walked into a hothead AI's girlfriend. All of this adds to the game. All it takes is the tweaking of some variables, but adds so much to the experience. Having code that says, essentially 'If gun is empty, and gun is fired, AI within ____ range have variable ISPLAYERGUNEMPTY set to 1' is one of the most amazing aspects of The Last of Us. It doesn't take a lot.

This post has been edited by Msharingan on Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:35

[Carl CJ Johnsons Brother Brian]

I like it how Rockstar give us very little info. Gameplay videos for example are the worst type of information in my opinion. I want to play GTA V with the feeling that I play it for the first time. Today there are way too many games with way too many info prior the release and I don't like this. I fully support Rockstar with their "less is more" strategy.

[Killjoy2022]

QUOTE (Msharingan @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:28)

QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:14) they're completely different games, The Last Of Us looks brilliant yeah, but almost all of the trailers and screenshots have been treated. We've not got much info on GTA V yet because Rockstar normally don't kick the marketing train into gear for this years titles til around this time, October/November, look at how much marketing MP3 got just after the GTA V reveal, once we see the next Rockstar game be revealed we'll know the info train is on the rails and running. It's impossible to compare The Last Of Us to GTA V, The Last Of Us seems to be just as linear as Uncharted, I loved the Uncharted franchise, and I will be picking up The Last Of Us, but tbh, the only comparison you could make with The Last Of Us is Resident Evil or Black Ops 3. I really don't think so. The Last of Us is a hybrid-sandbox game, similar to Crysis 2. Compared to Uncharted's setpiece > combat > setpiece > puzzle flow, it is entirely different (based on the information we have available). It is several sandbox areas, in which things are very dynamic and reactive, linked by linear paths. The demo's have shown that you have choice in how you approach the game, and that enemies do not have a linear response to your actions. Some get scared and run, some will challenge you. I would say that at this point GTA IV is similarly linear, as all games need to be linear to a point. Sure the linear paths connecting each mission are wider, but they are still restricted.

If you think that The Last Of Us is gonna be open world, you're in for a disappointment, anybody with common sense can see it's a linear action shooter dressed up to look like an open world game.

and on the AI front, that's an unreal amount of work for any developer, especially if it's their largest game to date with a very big map, how do you expect the xbox or ps3 to analyze all of the peds on screen, the cars, the litter, the decor, the protag, then run the physics through it, and not have a frame drop. have you played GTA IV on a console? it could barely manage hitting a lot of peds at once.

This post has been edited by Killjoy2022 on Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:41

[Msharingan]

QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:37)

QUOTE (Msharingan @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:28) QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:14) they're completely different games, The Last Of Us looks brilliant yeah, but almost all of the trailers and screenshots have been treated. We've not got much info on GTA V yet because Rockstar normally don't kick the marketing train into gear for this years titles til around this time, October/November, look at how much marketing MP3 got just after the GTA V reveal, once we see the next Rockstar game be revealed we'll know the info train is on the rails and running. It's impossible to compare The Last Of Us to GTA V, The Last Of Us seems to be just as linear as Uncharted, I loved the Uncharted franchise, and I will be picking up The Last Of Us, but tbh, the only comparison you could make with The Last Of Us is Resident Evil or Black Ops 3. I really don't think so. The Last of Us is a hybrid-sandbox game, similar to Crysis 2. Compared to Uncharted's setpiece > combat > setpiece > puzzle flow, it is entirely different (based on the information we have available). It is several sandbox areas, in which things are very dynamic and reactive, linked by linear paths. The demo's have shown that you have choice in how you approach the game, and that enemies do not have a linear response to your actions. Some get scared and run, some will challenge you. I would say that at this point GTA IV is similarly linear, as all games need to be linear to a point. Sure the linear paths connecting each mission are wider, but they are still restricted. If you think that The Last Of Us is gonna be open world, you're in for a disappointment, anybody with common sense can see it's a linear action shooter dressed up to look like an open world game.

Well, I don't think it is going to be an open world game. I thought I made it clear that I thought of it as a hyrbrid-sandbox game; you can't go anywhere you want but inside of the 'action bubbles' (connected by a linear path) you are free to choose how you approach the situation. It's a simple enough concept, which can vary from those games that provide a lot of choice (The Last of Us) to those that don't (Black Ops II, snipe or don't).

[theomenofficial]

The Last of Us does look better but GTA V will have more replay value.

[Killjoy2022]

QUOTE (Msharingan @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:40)

QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:37) QUOTE (Msharingan @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:28) QUOTE (Killjoy2022 @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:14) they're completely different games, The Last Of Us looks brilliant yeah, but almost all of the trailers and screenshots have been treated. We've not got much info on GTA V yet because Rockstar normally don't kick the marketing train into gear for this years titles til around this time, October/November, look at how much marketing MP3 got just after the GTA V reveal, once we see the next Rockstar game be revealed we'll know the info train is on the rails and running. It's impossible to compare The Last Of Us to GTA V, The Last Of Us seems to be just as linear as Uncharted, I loved the Uncharted franchise, and I will be picking up The Last Of Us, but tbh, the only comparison you could make with The Last Of Us is Resident Evil or Black Ops 3. I really don't think so. The Last of Us is a hybrid-sandbox game, similar to Crysis 2. Compared to Uncharted's setpiece > combat > setpiece > puzzle flow, it is entirely different (based on the information we have available). It is several sandbox areas, in which things are very dynamic and reactive, linked by linear paths. The demo's have shown that you have choice in how you approach the game, and that enemies do not have a linear response to your actions. Some get scared and run, some will challenge you. I would say that at this point GTA IV is similarly linear, as all games need to be linear to a point. Sure the linear paths connecting each mission are wider, but they are still restricted. If you think that The Last Of Us is gonna be open world, you're in for a disappointment, anybody with common sense can see it's a linear action shooter dressed up to look like an open world game. Well, I don't think it is going to be an open world game. I thought I made it clear that I thought of it as a hyrbrid-sandbox game; you can't go anywhere you want but inside of the 'action bubbles' (connected by a linear path) you are free to choose how you approach the situation. It's a simple enough concept, which can vary from those games that provide a lot of choice (The Last of Us) to those that don't (Black Ops II, snipe or don't).

Yes but you still can't compare the two, yeah it's a hybrid, but it's still really linear, Uncharted 3 was exactly the same, they gave you plenty of ways to complete the tasks you recieved, but it was still linear, you can't compare an open world game with god knows how many objects on screen and characters moving and other things happening with something like the Last Of Us, I'm sorry but if you're expecting GTA V to look anything like The Last Of Us or behave anything like it, you're gonna be disappointed.

[Ash_735]

QUOTE (Zee @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:25)

f*ck Naughty Dog. I remember reading in Jacked: The Story of Grand Theft Auto that the head of Naughty Dog talked massive sh*t about GTAIII before it came out.

You mean that book written by a no body who got most of his research off the internet?

[wwinterj]

QUOTE (europeanbob @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 18:08)

I wonder if R* are really doing this in the right way. GTA is always going to be exciting - but it does feel like they're missing some tricks here.

The last of Us is a new IP so is going to be marketed quite a lot. GTA on the other hand is not and doesn't need the big marketing. GTA V will have no problem selling at all no matter what R* do. I prefer the way R* are marketing GTA V as sometimes silence speaks louder than words. I like the fact that a lot will be a surprise when I play GTA V if R* keep up what they are doing. To many game devs show way to much of there game before it's even out and then when it's out there is no surprises.

A release date is all I need. Nothing more, nothing less. R* haven't failed me with there games up to this point so have earned the blind faith I have in them. Naughty Dog on the other hand will need to prove to me there new IP is worth buying. It should be as Crash was great(although not owned by them now) and uncharted. Only time will tell.

[Audiophile]

QUOTE (Carl CJ Johnsons Brother Brian @ Sunday, Sep 9 2012, 17:31)

I like it how Rockstar give us very little info. Gameplay videos for example are the worst type of information in my opinion. I want to play GTA V with the feeling that I play it for the first time. Today there are way too many games with way too many info prior the release and I don't like this. I fully support Rockstar with their "less is more" strategy.

I totally agree.

If R* gave us platforms (obviously both consoles but I mean whether PC releases at the same time) and a release date tomorrow I would not need anything else and the wait would be a breeze. IV was for me since we had a date, even with the delay because I knew when to expect it. So everything that comes after platforms and a release date is extra for me.

I understand tho that not everyone thinks like that and they do want to see more - especially a trailer.

[rare.steak]

As great as their games are Naughty Dog's games basically have no lasting appeal.

[Frantz Fuchs]

Naughty Dog’s Jason Rubin accused them of the equivalent of “selling cigarettes to kids”. So f*ck 'em. They knew GTA will have HUGE potential. Couldn't take it they were still making Crash Bandicoot