[ultimatelizardman]

i was thinking about ways in which the hand to hand combat system could be improved from GTA IV to GTA V.

notes:
- controls are based on the Xbox 360 controller.
- the combat style is based on an older (40+) "out of shape" protagonist, and involves no acrobatics.
- you must hold down the LT to go into hand to hand mode.
- this IS NOT a wishlist thread, it's objective is to get constructive feedback on my ideas.

status effects:

- dazed: dazed opponents are vulnerable to powerfull attacks.
- stunned: when stunned an NPC will be vulnerable to the most powerfull attacks, and grapples.
- downed: a downed NPC is vulnerable to grapples and "coups de grâce".


wounds:

- bleeding: NPC constantly loses HP untill they collapse and die, cannot run.
- broken arm: melee damage and attack speed -30%, shooting accuracy -20%, reload speed - 40%. (for each arm)
- broken leg: cannot kick or run, - 45% movement and attack speed. 2 broken legs causes instant K.O.
- broken skull: NPC is disoriented and will eventually collapse, cannot run.
- broken ribs: melee damage taken + 80%, cannot run.

note: firearms can also cause wounds, the chance of them doing so is based on their power (penetration) level (low = 20%, med = 40%, high = 70%, very high = 100%, maximal = 100%).
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BASE CONTROLS:

Y: grab an opponent/ grapple a stunned or downed opponent/ tackle an opponent while running.

B: punch/attack.

X: kick.

A: evade/block attacks.


unarmed techniques:

B: punch.

B, B: punch, punch.

B,B,B: punch, punch, punch.

B,B (hold): punch, heavy punch. (small chance to daze the opponent).

B (against a dazed or stunned opponent): heavy punch.

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

B, X: punch, knee strike. (pushes the opponent back).

Y,B: grab, headbutt. (dazes the opponent).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),Y: disarm and take the weapon. (leaves the player vulnerable, replaces the weapon of that type you're already in posession of)

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


unarmed grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, punch. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, punch, punch. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,B: grapple, punch, punch, headbutt. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, punch, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,X: grapple, punch, punch, leg sweep. (ends grapple and puts the opponent on the ground).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B (hold): grapple, arm break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


unarmed counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),Y: evasion, disarm and take the weapon. disarm and take the weapon. (replaces the weapon of that type you're already in posession of).

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, heavy punch. (dazes the opponent).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, arm break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

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knife techniques:
techniques used when equipped with any kind of knife.

B: slash.

B, B: slash, slash.

B,B,B: slash, slash, quick stab.

B,B (hold): slash, quick stab. (dazes and repels the opponent).

B (against a dazed or stunned opponent): stab (opponent may bleed to death).

B (hold): quick stab.

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

Y,B: grab, side stab. (repels the opponent, small chance to stun the opponent, oppoent may bleed to death).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


knife grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, stab. (ends grapple, opponent may bleed to death).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, stab, stab. (ends grapple, opponent may bleed to death).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,B: grapple, stab, stab, stab. (ends grapple, opponent my bleed to death).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, stab, leg sweep. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor, opponent may bleed to death).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B (hold): grapple, throat stab. (instant kill but leaves the player vulnerable).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


knife counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, quick stab. (dazes the opponent).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, throat stab. (instant kill but leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).


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one-handed cudgel techniques:
techniques used when equipped with any kind of one-handed blunt weapon.

B: swing.

B, B: swing, swing.

B,B,B: swing, swing, downwards swing. (dazes the opponent)

B,B (hold): swing, power swing. (dazes and repels the opponent).

B (against a dazed or stunned opponent): downwards power swing. (knocks the opponent down)

B (hold): power swing. (dazes and repels the opponent)

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

Y,B: grab, pommel strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


one-handed cudgel grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, pommel strike, leg sweep. (ends the grapple and puts the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B (hold): grapple, swing to the head. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


one-handed cudgel counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, high swing. (dazes the opponent).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, power swing to the kneecap. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

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one-handed heavy blade techniques:
techniques used when equipped with any kind of one-handed blade other than a knife.

B: slash.

B, B: slash, downwards slash. (dazes the opponent)

B,B,B: slash, downwards slash, power stab. (dazes and repels the opponen, opponent my bleed to death)

B,B (hold): slash, power stab. (dazes and repels the opponent, opponent may bleed to death).

B (against a dazed opponent): power swing. (puts the opponent on the ground)

B (against a stunned opponent): power swing to the neck. (instant kill by decapitation or partial decapitation)

B (hold): hooked power stab. (puts the opponent on the ground, does massive damage, opponent will most likely bleed to death)

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

Y,B: grab, pommel strike. (dazes and repels the opponent).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


one-handed heavy blade grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, pommel strike. (ends grapple, dazes the opponent).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, pommel strike, hooked stab. (ends grapple, puts the opponent on the ground, opponent may bleed to death).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, pommel strike, leg sweep. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


one-handed heavy blade counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, high power swing. (dazes the opponent, small chance to kill instantly).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, slash to the back of the head. (instant kill, leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).


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two-handed blunt techniques:
techniques used when equipped with any kind of two-handed blunt weapon (i.e: baseball bat).

B: swing.

B, B: swing, swing. (chance to daze the opponent by breaking thier skull)

B,B (hold): swing, low power swing. (high chance to break legs).

B (against a dazed or stunned opponent): downwards power swing. (breaks the skull, instant kill).

B (hold): high power swing. (stuns and repels the opponent, chance to break the skull, slow)

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

Y,B: grab, punch. (repels the opponent, chance to stun).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


two-handed blunt grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike, high swing. (ends grapple, can break the skull).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, pommel strike, leg sweep. (ends the grapple and puts the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B (hold): grapple, swing to the head. (instant kill but leaves the player vulnerable).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


two-handed blunt counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, low swing. (puts the opponent on the ground).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, power swing to the legs. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).


____________________________________________________________


two-handed blade techniques:
techniques used when equipped with any kind of two-handed sharp weapon (i.e: katana).

B: swing.

B, B: swing, high swing. (chance to kill instantly).

B,B (hold): swing, thrust. (puts the opponent on the ground, oppoent may bleed to death).

B (against a dazed or stunned opponent): high power swing. (instant kill, potential decapitation).

B (hold): power swing. (high chance to dismember, slow)

X: kick.

X (against a dazed opponent): upwards groin kick. (knocks the opponent down).

X (against a stunned opponent): leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

Y,B: grab, pommel strike. (small chance to stun the opponent, repels the opponent).

Y,X: grab, knee strike. (small chance to stun the opponent).

Y (against an armed opponent),B: disarm and throw the weapon away. (leaves the player vulnerable).


two-handed blade grapples:
grapples must immediately be followed by an attack, once you stop attacking, the grapple breaks. trying to tackle an enemy in combat will result in your tackle being countered.

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B: grapple, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike. (ends grapple).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,B,B: grapple, pommel strike, pommel strike, high swing. (ends grapple, small chance to kill instantly).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),X: grapple, knee strike. (ends grapple and has a chance of putting the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B,X: grapple, pommel strike, leg sweep. (ends the grapple and puts the opponent on the floor).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),B (hold): grapple, swing to the head. (instant kill but leaves the player vulnerable, decapitation).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y: grapple, throw. (throws the opponent away).

Y (against a stunned or downed opponent),Y (near an enviromental hazard): grapple, enviromental attack. (instant K.O./kill).

Y (while running towards an unaware or stunned opponent): tackle.


two-handed blade counters:
like grapples, counters end when you stop attacking.

A (against an armed opponent),B: evasion, disarm and throw the weapon away.

A (before an attack impacts),B: evasion, high swing. (puts the opponent on the ground, chance to kill instantly).

A (before an attack impacts),X: evasion, leg sweep. (knocks the opponent down).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,Y: evasion, grab, throw the opponent to the ground.

A (before an attack impacts),Y,B (hold): evasion, grab, impale. (instant kill, leaves the player vulnerable).

A (before an attack impacts),Y,X (hold): evasion, grab, leg break. (instant K.O. but leaves the player vulnerable).

This post has been edited by ultimatelizardman on Monday, Sep 24 2012, 10:51

[sclodyon]

Sounds alot like the Sleeping Dogs system. But yeah, I like it. Even if they incorparated very simple combo moves into GTA V, such as punch, punch, heavy punch, etc. it would make melee combat alot more appealing.

[DonJuan]

old people still can fight, i would just like to see a better fighting system all together, they never really have got that on point. Havent played sleeping dogs but Batman is amazing, and i know that Batman is Batman, but its Rockstars targeting system for the melee attacks that always suffered. Although i did like the counter attacks in iv

[Frantz Fuchs]

I don't want it because, 1. Guns are easily acquired in GTA, unlike Sleeping Dogs and 2. It will get annoying if you press Y to get in a car and the protag just grabs a pedestrian walking by...

[Static94]

its f*cking GRAND THEFT AUTO
NOT f*ckING STREET FIGHTER

[ultimatelizardman]

QUOTE (Frantz Fuchs @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 20:45)

I don't want it because, 1. Guns are easily acquired in GTA, unlike Sleeping Dogs and 2. It will get annoying if you press Y to get in a car and the protag just grabs a pedestrian walking by...

1. the player's ammunition carrying capacity needs to be heavily limited, and some missions should require the use of less-lethal force (kidnapping or "teaching somone a lesson", for example).

2. you can only grab the NPC you're targeting, in other words, you need to hold down LT to grab an NPC.

This post has been edited by ultimatelizardman on Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 19:59

[Johacamigames]

This system reminds me of Bully and Sleeping Dogs, which I don't dislike at all btw I'd love to see it in the game

[Masterfocker]

I say keep it the same as GTA 4. The clunkiness and randomness of it made it fun to just go around fighting random people. Sometimes killing them with 1 punch, sometimes full on fighting them.

[ultimatelizardman]

added disarming techniques.

[Mr_Leone]

I like your idea, man. Makes fighting more interactive.

[MagzGTA]

QUOTE (Masterfocker @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 20:03)

I say keep it the same as GTA 4. The clunkiness and randomness of it made it fun to just go around fighting random people. Sometimes killing them with 1 punch, sometimes full on fighting them.

What he said! I like how random the ko's are!

[zticky]

QUOTE (Static94 @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 19:53)

its f*cking GRAND THEFT AUTO NOT f*ckING STREET FIGHTER

yep i'd like to see various fighting styles but not complicated

[ultimatelizardman]

QUOTE (MagzGTA @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 21:34)

QUOTE (Masterfocker @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 20:03) I say keep it the same as GTA 4. The clunkiness and randomness of it made it fun to just go around fighting random people. Sometimes killing them with 1 punch, sometimes full on fighting them. What he said! I like how random the ko's are!

K.O.'s could still be random, by giving NPC's randomized HP (perhaps it could also be based on their body type?), or by giving attacks randomized damage.

[RockStarNiko]

I definitely want an improved melee fighting system.

If they add a "grab" move this could leave to different melee follow ups. Tap a repeatedly and you either punch them, knee them, elbow them. Or after grabbing you can push them back against a surface, either a wall or car or over edge of building

[Starz]

Some of that would work. I'd like a better melee system for doing more advanced moves.

[Ash_735]

How about something like Vice City Stories? That has a similar set up, First Lock On, Triangle to Grab, Circle to Punch, X to Kick, Square to throw them to the floor, even had special moves, like if you grabbed them from behind and pressed circle, you could snap their neck, if they could get on to Rockstar Leeds at making a next gen version of that, it would be cool.

[MosquitoSmasher]

Sounds good yeah. This is what i really want, a much better hand to hand combat system. Not that tripe from IV, sorry but it was. Especially compared to GTA SA, Bully and definitely Sleeping Dogs. I like to use melee alot in GTA and i find the fun back in it.

[MIKAHEEL]

i would have a warriors and Bully hybrid fighting system

[Starz]

I also want a counterattack option and controls to duck below punches and grapples.

[redx165]

QUOTE (Masterfocker @ Saturday, Sep 8 2012, 20:03)

I say keep it the same as GTA 4. The clunkiness and randomness of it made it fun to just go around fighting random people. Sometimes killing them with 1 punch, sometimes full on fighting them.

Please tell me you're trolling. IV had one of the worst fighting systems I ever seen. SA had the best one. The controls were not sloppy and they reacted as soon as you press the button.