[fgcarva1]

QUOTE (Reuters)

South African police open fire on striking miners armed with machetes and sticks at Lonmin's Marikana platinum mine, killing at least a dozen men in the deadliest episode of a week of union violence. The SAPA domestic news agency says one of its reporters counted 18 bodies after the shooting near a squatter camp close to the mine, which occurred when police laying out barricades of barbed wire were outflanked by some of an estimated 3,000 miners massed on a rocky outcrop near the mine, northwest of Johannesburg.

Personally I think it's hard to tell in these situations... those who were there, and not just officers, state that the miners did rush the officers with machetes and even fireamrs but it is all unclear. It could have been a cop who felt threatened, firing and leading to others also firing but it's very unclear. The action taken by the police was harshly condemned by President Zuma later on. Now any investigation will look to find a solution to this.

Share your thoughts and opinions on what happened or what would have been the correct action by cops.

Full Article on reuters.com

[Vanzant]

That's not a massacre, that's cutting down on man minutes in the workplace. Corporate reducing head count by force. It's easy to target the lazy ones who don't want to work.

[darthYENIK]

Machetes are most definitely deadly weapons. If someone or a group of people are charging the police with machetes, they have to open fire. It's basically what we in the US call suicide by police. Not to say that's what these miners wanted, but that's the risk you run when you threaten the lives of men with machine guns.

[Xcommunicated]

Apparently they didn't get the memo about never bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[Majestic81]

When i read the waring about strong images i expected something more brutal...
Anyway i don't usually side with cops but they didn't have any choice but to open fire, those miners had it coming.

[GTA_stu]

Everything happens so fast and it's hard to tell exactly what occurred. Seems like a bit of an over reaction though by the police, did they even fire any warning shots or anything? They didn't seem that well coordinated either and seemed to panic.

Actually having watched it a few times I guess their reaction was understandable to an extent. They rushed and caught the police slightly off-guard, so they just fired in reaction to what they perceived to be a deadly threat. Pretty stupid move by that group of protesters. But again it didn't seem like the police were that well organised, if they had been and they had been prepared then maybe it could have been handled a bit better.

[UNRATED69]

From the video, it seems to me that the protesters were still a fair distance away from the police line, and firing a warning shot would have been a better deterrent than outright opening fire. I know the police were just defending themselves, and the situation was an already volatile one made even worse by the protesters actually charging the police, but their reaction still seemed a bit too over responsive for the situation. Of course I could be all wrong about the distance thing, as the camera angle isn't exactly the best for judging distances.

[EscoLehGo]

You truly have a sh*t life if you're willing to end it in a hail of gunfire whilst wielding a machete in the hopes of harming at least one other person before you get taken out.

[lil weasel]

History repeats itself:

QUOTE (U.S. A: April 20 @ 1914. Ludlow Massacre)

The massacre resulted in the violent deaths of between 19 and 25 people; sources vary but all sources include two women and eleven children, asphyxiated and burned to death under a single tent. The deaths occurred after a daylong fight between militia and camp guards against striking workers.

QUOTE (U.S. A. July 1892 The Homestead Strike)

When the private armies of business arrived, the crowd warned the Pinkertons not to step off the barge. But they did. No one knows which side shot first, but under a barrage of fire, the Pinkertons retreated back to their barges. For 14 hours, gunfire was exchanged. Strikers rolled a flaming freight train car at the barges. They tossed dynamite to sink the boats and pumped oil into the river and tried to set it on fire. By the time the Pinkertons surrendered in the afternoon three detectives and nine workers were dead or dying. The workers declared victory in the bloody battle, but it was a short-lived celebration. The governor of Pennsylvania ordered state militia into Homestead. Armed with the latest in rifles and Gatling guns

QUOTE ( May 19 @ 1920 Battle of Matewan)

between local miners and the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency. A contingent of the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency arrived on the no. 29 morning train in order to evict families that had been living at the Stone Mountain Coal Camp just on the outskirts of town. A Report that the detectives had sub-machine guns with them in their suitcases. Seven Baldwin-Felts Detectives were killed, Two miners were killed, the mayor was dying, and four other bystanders had been wounded.

So you see, it might be a different place and different time but, the world is just continuing do what has always been going on. the Wheel of time keeps turning.

[darthYENIK]

QUOTE (Xcommunicated @ Thursday, Aug 16 2012, 19:11)

Apparently they didn't get the memo about never bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Exactly what I thought when I saw the video. Not in a joking way or anything, but in the most serious sense of that phrase. It's a waste of life. You aren't standing up to the police, you're just killing yourself. I'm not saying, go after them with guns. Just don't throw away your life.

Of course, this might just shine some light on the situation. Apparently the president doesn't condone the outcome. But then again, it might just spark more violence.

[fgcarva1]

I really think it was one cop who panicked and shot leading others to shoot. They were a good distance away, yes, but I don't think the police had time for warning shots. Seems as if they weren't trained well since they wasted a few dozen rounds on them. If I were a cop (a competent and experienced cop) I would have shot a like five rounds at a couple of them, not have 6 guys spray them.

2 cents.

Someone in the V section should make a video analysis on this since they do it so well with the V trailer.

[lumpy.flippy]

It's really not like our usual crowd of angry workers demanding wages. These guys really meant their business machetes, knifes, spears and axes. I think it's worth mentioning that the protesters killed two security guard and two police officers taking their firearms, an R4 rifle and one sidearm before this incident.

Of course, firing directly into the protesters undoubtedly is a use of excessive force. But given the volatility of the situation, it's very hard for the police officer on the ground facing that rushing picket line what kind of force is justifiable for his duty but also his protection. Nevertheless, it's a sad affair.

[Bad.boy!]

If you turn the volume up, you'll here that they fire 1 round, about 0,5s later the second round and then open fire. But I think the crowd wouldn't have stopped if they hadn't open fire. I'm not saying that the action by police was good, but it was needed.

Also one guy was still alive and tried to crawl away in the end. But he probably won't make it either.

[Gst0395]

Nothing surprising here, for a place where crime is pretty much an epidemic and the murder rate is almost as high as Latin American countries with violent drug cartels. Glad I don't live there.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 04:50)

History repeats itself

Except all of those instances involved private security rather than state police.

[lil weasel]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 16:29)

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 04:50) History repeats itself Except all of those instances involved private security rather than state police.

Militia is the state police.
The private security were usually sworn as officers for the company.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 17:51)

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 16:29) QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 04:50) History repeats itself Except all of those instances involved private security rather than state police. Militia is the state police. The private security were usually sworn as officers for the company.

Doesn't mean that their actions are state sanctioned. In the case of the police, it does. That's what makes the incident especially concerning- that and the obvious parallels in rhetoric between their statements and those made in the wake of the relatively frequent state-sanctioned violence in Apartheid times.

[LazyboyEight]

come for the "strong images"

leave disappointed

[Bad.boy!]

QUOTE (Majestic81 @ Aug 17 2012, 02:17)

When i read  the waring about strong images i expected something more brutal...

QUOTE (LazyboyEight @ Aug 17 2012, 18:55)

come for the "strong images" leave disappointed

Those images are pretty strong. The problem is that people are used to extreme violence/gore. My mother and sisters wouldn't watch something like that and they even think that the news shows images that are to shocking.

[fgcarva1]

QUOTE (Bad.boy! @ Friday, Aug 17 2012, 17:56)

QUOTE (Majestic81 @ Aug 17 2012, 02:17) When i read  the waring about strong images i expected something more brutal... QUOTE (LazyboyEight @ Aug 17 2012, 18:55) come for the "strong images" leave disappointed Those images are pretty strong. The problem is that people are used to extreme violence/gore. My mother and sisters wouldn't watch something like that and they even think that the news shows images that are to shocking.

This.

These images are in fact strong because unlike your movies and video-games they are real people getting shot to death. Hell, you can see a movie or play Gears of War and think "Oh my God, that guy's head got chopped off." but these images are a lot stronger because they're not some animation or special effect, those guys are lying dead on the floor, not acting.

Try standing there and watching those guys get shot and just try not feeling disturbed at all.

@Bad.boy I also heard that early round when I turned the volume up. I guess it just meant the police did fire warning shots and it seems as if they started running faster towards them at that point.

And as stated, the previous day the miners did kill two officers while nine miners themselves had gotten killed.

This post has been edited by fgcarva1 on Friday, Aug 17 2012, 21:09