[anuj]

Hello all.

I used to run this place. We had a pretty tight set of rules and members who diligently reported rule-breaking topics instead of complaining about them non-stop. So I've decided to toss my hat back in the ring and help draft the new rules that would be governing this section of the forums.

Before we begin, I urge you all to read this topic:

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=234417

It is the original rules topic drafted in collaboration between myself, CCPD, and paps. It was a very good topic. It helped us prune down the spam in the forum and let us focus on more important things, like competitions and group collabs.

Now that you've read and understood our old rules topic, I want you to sit down and read this topic:

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=287786

It is about people complaining about our overly strict and harsh rules, locking topics, and general rebelling against the nearest authority figure. It will give you a good idea of why our staff does not want to have to deal with the led-bys of this section implementing possibly draconian rules.

I suggest you thoroughly read those topics before considering posting in here. Trust me. I will know if you've read them.

Now that you've read those two topics, you should be able to put 2+2 together and realize why we don't have a rules topic in this area. It is because when led-bys make rules, two things tend to happen. First, people do not read them. Then they get mad when they are punished for not having read the rules. So we get one set of reports coming in from users who are pro-rules, and we have another set of reports coming in from users who are upset that the rules are so stringent. When you have to be in the middle of this, you can get tired of it very quickly, which is what lead Waddy to basically declare martial law on this area of the forums.

Well, lucky for you guys I'm back. This topic will serve as a chance for YOU, the GFX community-at-large, to put forth what sort of rules you feel are necessary to keep this place neat, tidy, and drama free.

Just so we can have some fun too, we're going to have a little contest. Whoever figures it out first wins.

The most popular proposed rules seem to be minimum amount of time between requests, maximum amount of requests in a certain time period, minimum amount of time as a member before being allowed to make requests, and topics having to follow a certain format.

Besides rules, what sort of punishments should be implemented for not following them?

[GunWrath]

1. Description; Members must make detailed descriptions of what they're requesting thus saving the time and effort of troll posts or "umm what?" posts and a chance of having their requests completed.

2. Non-Related Replies; Members must refrain from making inappropriate, rude or non-related replies in the topic. Such as, "Dude, you can't request that!", or "Umm a thanks would have been cool."

3. Request Limit; (Yes, it's a popular rule we all vote for) Members must create a topic with a detailed description of what they're asking for and if any new requests may come up, the member must simply Edit his original topic or add a new post to his original topic. Why is this important? So that those who request and wait patiently don't have their topics bumped down, when they're the ones who wait patiently, don't bump or bother artists through PM.

4. Gang Graphics; Now, we all know that this is a GFX Requests section, but most of the requests are for Gang-related graphics including signatures, headers, banners, etc. Perhaps a separate subforum for Gang Graphics shall be made. To reduce the amount of Requests from one gang due to new members, new style, change of mind, name change, etc. Which will open the door for other requests that artists and other members need dearly or would enjoy creating but are over booked due to Gang related requests.

These are my main choices of rules that I would like to see, possibly enforced more or even noticed. As far as punishment, I don't think bans are necessary, warnings really don't affect anything but possibly making a member think twice about what he's doing next time or he does the simple eye roll, and continues repeating his offenses in the near future. I do think a temporary ban from this Section alone would be adequate. Possibly for 1st infraction, 3days, 2nd infraction, 7days, 3rd 1 month, and however you may proceed to roll with it.

I haven't been a graphic artist long, hell, even if I'm at the point of being called a graphic artist, but when I first came to GTAF, I was just simply a user and trying to converse about the game itself.. but I came across the GFX Requests section and seen potential and alot of great artists and I decided to open Photoshop and see what I couldn't make. I've learned alot during my short time here and I hate to see others get the same twinkle of the eye just to be let down in the future, due to a lack of responsibility and discipline in this section. The requests are getting abit out of hand, it's hard to please anyone anymore, as within hours or acouple days of a requests, they return for something else, or a new gang that they've created.

I continue to grow in the art of Graphics and I would love to say, "I've learned most of my experience through GTAForums and I'd hope to continue to gain experience or even help another artist blossom in the process." But sadly, I've lost that motivation to even pursue any more requests within the last two weeks. Narcis helps tremendously, and so do afew others, and I just feel as if they're not getting the recognition or support that they deserve.

But back to the main agenda, those are the rules in which I'd like to see or have something develop from them, within the near future or atleast before the release of GTA V, as GTAForums will be flooded with new members, possible artists and especially more gangs. So something should be set in place or atleast a more strict police force to stand behind Narcis and the actual purpose of the section.

Thanks,
GW.

[Narcis_speed6]

Is good that you reconsidered and created this topic.

-I suggest having a 4 day as the minimum amount of time between requests, that should be enough to satisfy every member's needs without making them feel under pressure from any 'strict rules'. (that would mean 6-7 requests per mount, which is a good amount for someone that is not looking to spam the place up)
-Members not following the rules simply get the topic locked, do it again would get you another lock along with a reminder of the rules, third time is the charm were moderators come in and handle the warnings/bans (that would mean 3 topics before you can add an entry on his member log)
-If the requester gets his topic locked for not following the rules he could open another topic in 2 days (first lock) 3 days (second lock) 4 days (third and final lock, if he makes another one after this he should be banned for being a f*cking idiot)
-A format could be made but not implemented as a rule, recommended but not compulsory in case the member has no idea how to submit a request and needs a little guidance.
-We should drop the post requirements before making a topic, that would only result in a useless spam in order to get what they want.
-If the topic falls down the page you are allowed to bump it only after 3 days, rush with it and you will get it locked.


The rules may sound hard for someone that is watching the section, but that's why I am here for.

edit: Reply to GunWrath

QUOTE

the member must simply Edit his original topic or add a new post to his original topic. Why is this important? So that those who request and wait patiently don't have their topics bumped down

This will not work, they should create a new topic after waiting the given time without needing to search for his old topic on later pages.

QUOTE

or bother artists through PM

We can't enforce a rule over this unless the user is spamming up your inbox, for that we have this

QUOTE

Perhaps a separate subforum for Gang Graphics shall be made.

That would pretty much over-complicate how things run, one section is more than enough to satisfy everyone's needs.

QUOTE

I do think a temporary ban from this Section alone would be adequate. Possibly for 1st infraction, 3days, 2nd infraction, 7days, 3rd 1 month, and however you may proceed to roll with it.

This would be a good but impossible idea, I don't think we can have these kind of features on this current forum software (maybe V2?)

This post has been edited by Narcis_speed6 on Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 00:39

[Boss Falcone]

Thank you very much Anuj.

1. You are only allowed to create a topic every 4 days.
2. Bump the topic every 3 days( No offence nobody even follows that rule anymore even though Narcis_speed6 say's it)
3. Do not start a chat inside other people topic this is strictly requests.
4. You Must have A Detailed description of what you want if you don't how will the GFX Artists know what the hell you talking about.
5. No Disrespecting the people who are trying to help you.

These I think are the most Important to me If i remember anything else that is Important I will EDIT My post.

Thanks for reading.

[Mr.Funny12]

Ezio your number five can't be a rule. You can't tell people who they are going to be mean or nice to. If they're rude, they get what they deserve... nothing.

Ezio's other four are simple enough, not too strict, or anything and in my opinion that all thats needed. Hell, I'd raise that every four days to ever 5-10 days.

[St. Dublin Mafia]

nic_23 told me to post this: there needs to be more respect shown to the people that put time and effort into designing the requests, it can't really be a rule but i feel that more respect is certainly needed.the requester also needs to be clear on what they want.

[SmC12]

I think what Narcis has suggested would be ideal and really benefit this section. Looking at the old rules, they were pretty strict but it seemed they were badly needed. Narcis' suggestion still has the same formula as the old rules but nowhere near as harsh.

A good description is absolutely necessary. I have done a request on countless occasions basically trying to guess what the person wants, and then if it's not what they're looking for they become annoyed, as if it's my fault that they can't put effort into a description. Also if the request involves resources, such as a gang logo or a certain car, or any kind of specific image, the requester should provide those resources. I've seen numerous requests where the member simply states "I want a *insert object* included." I've spent up to an hour sometimes searching for images that match the description, and then the member telling me it's not what he's looking for. Like I'm some mind reader? So I think there should be a rule for this. If the requester has specific images in mind to be included - provide them in the request. We are here to create graphics, not to search for things that should already be included as standard.

Although the gang section is different with it's own rules, there is a very strong link between GFX Requests and the Multiplayer forums. People reguarly make requests for their gang or event, and just a day later have created a new gang and yet again want new graphics. It's a complete waste of the artists time if their work is not being used and aprreciated. What makes this worse is that people normally use seperate gang accounts so it's hard to determine if it's the same member breaking the wait period over and over. I'm not sure what type of rule could be implemented to prevent this, but from what I've seen over half of the threads getting locked here are due to the gangs. Perhaps a joint rule between the GFX and Gang forum that you must wait a certain period before creating a new gang and requesting new graphics for said gang. It would really cut down on the volume and hopefully prevent alot of work going to waste.

Those are really my two biggest problems. I think Narcis and GunWrath covered the other points perfectly, especially regarding the punishments.

I think people are always going to be rebellious when there are rules involved. Naturally people want to do what they want. However this section has become really bad and alot of great artists and contributing members have stopped posting because of it. Getting the balance right between too strict and too lenient is difficult but I think we can work something out and hopefully restore this section to its former glory.

This post has been edited by SmC12 on Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 04:13

[anuj]

QUOTE (St. Dublin Mafia @ Saturday, Aug 11 2012, 20:51)

nic_23 told me to post this: there needs to be more respect shown to the people that put time and effort into designing the requests, it can't really be a rule but i feel that more respect is certainly needed.the requester also needs to be clear on what they want.

This is pretty bloody ironic coming from a guy who is temp banned (for the second time) for petty flaming.

Also, since telling other members to post on your behalf is a bannable offense, I'm going to advise you NOT do that. And tell nic_23 that his ban has been extended by 7 days for doing that.

If you guys want rules, respect the rules that are already established.

[anuj]

Actually, scratch that. Who are YOU and why are you posting from a gang account on behalf on someone? And please, don't spare the details because otherwise I'm permabanning both of you.

[blitz]

1. Time Period
5 days between requests. I agree that 10 is way too much, but if less, the section will still be flooded. Seems like a reasonable amount to me. Georgia.

2. Double Posting
No 'bumps' in topics, in other words, no double posting. 5 days is pretty reasonable, too. Foxtrot.

3. Request Format
Specific request format, so that requests aren't 'id liek a baner wit text sayin mafia reel family lol plz thx.' The old format should work just about fine. XRAY.

CODE

Name: If you want a name on your graphic, state it here. Whether it's your username or something different. On the other hand, if you don't want a name on it, also say so here. Size: Put the size of graphic wanted. Theme: Put an extended description of the theme you want. Including positions of anything and everything, and text that you want included. Resources: Post links to any logos, screenshots, or fonts you'd like. Colours: Color scheme you'd like. Additional info: Anything additional you want added/done.

4. No Ripping.
No plagiarising or claiming artwork as your own when it really isn't. Permaban is pretty reasonable for something like this.

5. No hi-jacking.
Pretty self explanatory, just don't storm into someone's topic and make your requests there.

6. No "all my requests" threads.
Please, most of these just end up in an enormous wave of 'bumps' and other spamming. If you want a new graphic, make a new topic. It's that simple.

This post has been edited by blitz on Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 19:59

[Narcis_speed6]

This is going down the page so I will pin it, continue to discuss the rules along with punishments.

[ajbns87]

Blitz isn't the only one who took the time to read the topics, in the first post. GFX.

Anuj, I'd put your trust in Narcis to run this section as he wishes, allow him to adopt the rules he has suggested. He's done a great job so far in this section, and I can't see why he can't simply have his way considering the amount of input he has made to the forum and section as a whole.

Furthermore as SmC and Blitz has pointed out, strictness of the past rules was too harsh, I think 4/5 days is definitely sufficient. Only one request / bump every 5 days, failure to do so, warning. Repeat offense, 3 day ban. Three strikes, perma-ban.

Again as SmC has accurately described, the issue with overloading of spam here, is directly related to multiplayer sections of the forum, often forum members will use two accounts to make requests, this is against the rules (e.g. Gang Accounts must only be used to create / edit topics in the Gang Section and no where else). But should be enforced more tightly from now on.

Good post from GunWrath too, hope this section improves, and you feel like returning to contribute to it.

[geomy]

Ripping/Plagiarism: Obvious no-no.
- Punishment: Once it is proven the "artist" stole someone else's work, instant permaban.

Time Period: 7 days. 1 request per week seems reasonable, and instead of having to do simple math everytime some retard makes multiple requests, just look at the timestamp: Requested on a Tuesday...is it Tuesday again? Nope...Lock it up.
- Punishment: 1st offense - locked topic + official reminder; 2nd offense - temp ban; 3rd offense - see ya.

Double Posting/Bumping: 7 days + 1 bump per request. If no one is responding to your request, you can bump it ONCE, but doing so restarts the time period clock. Example: Member X creates a topic requesting gang logo, there are no takers, Member X may bump it 7 days later. Still no artists respond, after 7 days from bump, Member X may request a lock (through reporting his/her own topic) and once locked, may open a new topic.
- Punishment: 1st offense - locked topic + official reminder; 2nd offense - temp ban; 3rd offense - see ya.

Required Format: Same as before - for new request and simple edits. This time it mandatory, and if something doesn't apply, N/A that entry.
- Punishment: 1st offense - locked topic + official reminder; 2nd offense - temp ban; 3rd offense - see ya.

There's no such thing as too harsh. Let's all keep in mind the key tenet from the GTAF charter (something about democracy+demands). Grey areas come up quite often, and in those instances Led-Bys and Mods can make a judgement call. But having a standard from which to start from will hopefully clean the place up, and make the jobs of those in charge a bit easier and less subjective.

PS. what happened to papanesta? & CCPD?

This post has been edited by geomy on Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 19:49

[anuj]

QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 07:46)

Anuj, I'd put your trust in Narcis to run this section as he wishes, allow him to adopt the rules he has suggested. He's done a great job so far in this section, and I can't see why he can't simply have his way considering the amount of input he has made to the forum and section as a whole.

I do trust him with him section, but there was a serious lack of communication between him and higher-ups. It's similar to what has happened before.

After we draft up these community rules, he will be the primary enforcer. If there is something he cannot do (warn/ban/change signature to something funny), then I wlll do it for him. I'm not taking his job. I'm just trying to help the sections that I was so heavily involved in for so many years.

Congrats to SmC12, who was the first to both get the codewords AND pm them to me.

You can either choose a verbal commendation, or to have a rule named after you.

[anuj]

Really? This is all the input we get after a 100+ reply topic where everyone was so vocal about wanting rules in place?

I'm going to give this about 24 more hours, and then draw up the first draft. The suggestions so far are really good. I'm just disappointed that so few decided to voice their opinions in a topic that actively takes them into consideration.

[blitz]

I don't think many people actually visit the section unless they're here to request. Perhaps that's the reason for the little input provided.

Hey 'nuj, by the way, if you need help with a banner for the rules thread or something, I'd be happy to give it a try.

[ajbns87]

QUOTE (anuj @ Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 19:28)

Really? This is all the input we get after a 100+ reply topic where everyone was so vocal about wanting rules in place? I'm going to give this about 24 more hours, and then draw up the first draft. The suggestions so far are really good. I'm just disappointed that so few decided to voice their opinions in a topic that actively takes them into consideration.

What input did you expect, the same idiots to spam here like they did the suggestion topic...

QUOTE (Random idiot)

'I vote yes  '

I think enough's been said. Make a draft on what Narcis and others have suggested, and provide the assistance required, job done.

[Southern Comfort]

QUOTE (anuj @ Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 14:28)

Really? This is all the input we get after a 100+ reply topic where everyone was so vocal about wanting rules in place? I'm going to give this about 24 more hours, and then draw up the first draft. The suggestions so far are really good. I'm just disappointed that so few decided to voice their opinions in a topic that actively takes them into consideration.

The ones that did voice their opinion already have said it fairly well. If I were to suggest anything I think it would just be me repeating something that has already been said. We definitely need a format for the members to copy and paste when requesting, art thieves should be banned. Yeah I'm just repeating what others have said really. What we need to figure out is how to get the rules in the face of the requester to make sure they follow them.

If I think of something I'll be sure to let y'all know.

[anuj]

QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 15:14)

QUOTE (anuj @ Sunday, Aug 12 2012, 19:28) Really? This is all the input we get after a 100+ reply topic where everyone was so vocal about wanting rules in place? I'm going to give this about 24 more hours, and then draw up the first draft. The suggestions so far are really good. I'm just disappointed that so few decided to voice their opinions in a topic that actively takes them into consideration. What input did you expect, the same idiots to spam here like they did the suggestion topic... QUOTE (Random idiot) 'I vote yes  ' I think enough's been said. Make a draft on what Narcis and others have suggested, and provide the assistance required, job done.

Those "idiots" are the ones who got this pushed through, so I suggest you watch the name calling.

But if you guys are really content with this being all that needs to be said, I suppose I won't argue.

[anuj]

First draft

GTAForums Requests & Tutorials Rules Topic

Introduction
This forum can be used to request various signatures, avatars, and images for whatever reason you may need them. In the past, this area has become a target for both spam and ungrateful users. In order to cut down on that, we've instituted a set of rules decided upon by community members. Our goal is two-fold: to streamline requests and to make sure that users kind enough to fulfill requests aren't being taken advantage of.

Base Rules

• Request Limits - When you make a request topic and it is filled, you must wait four days before making another request. If nobody has responded to your request after three days, then you may bump up your topic. You may make multiple requests in one topic, but use your best judgement. Moderators are allowed to use discretion as to what constitutes "excessive" requests.
  • Gang graphics are not exempt from this rule.
• Request Formats - While not absolutely necessary, it will help get your request fulfilled much quicker and to your liking. We will not lock your topic if you don't specify what shade of purple the monkey doing a backflip should be, but if you simply post something to the effect of "I'd like a military sig with my name" then you might get a visit from Mr. Lock.
  
  Here's a handy request guide that can be copied/pasted:
  

  CODE

  Name: If you want a name on your graphic, state it here. Whether it's your username or something different. On the other hand, if you don't want a name on it, also say so here. Size: Put the size of graphic wanted. Theme: Put an extended description of the theme you want. Including positions of anything and everything, and text that you want included. Resources: Post links to any logos, screenshots, or fonts you'd like. Colours: Color scheme you'd like. Additional info: Anything additional you want added/done.

• General Etiquette
  • No Double Posting - Self explanatory. The only exception is to bump a topic if it has received no replies for 3 days.
  • Stay On Topic - Keep topics free of spam, derails, and unnecessary chat. Don't hijack another user's topic for your own requests.
  • Don't abuse users' generosity - The users here are not obligated to do anything for you. You're not entitled to anything. And if you decide to be a dick to someone providing you a free service here? Don't be surprised if you get banned.
• Ripping - In short, ripping is art theft. If you need more reading material, this is a good place to start.
• Replying to Spam - If you see a post that breaks any of the above rules, do NOT post in the thread. Report the thread to moderators and move on. Do not post in the thread. Don't reply to spam. Simple!

Punishments
When you registered for this forum, you basically agreed to follow whatever rules the moderating staff put into place. There are a few things you have to remember about this:

• These rules are here because YOU wanted them
• You are a guest on a FREE service. You are not entitled to anything. This is not a democracy.
• We, above all, will cover our own asses. We will not be party to any lawsuits because you guys f*cked up. This is important, because art theft (ripping/plagiarism) can EASILY result in lawsuits. Hell, we'll fully cooperate with any investigation regarding it because we sure as hell aren't paying damages.

Now that we have that out of the way, here's what you can expect if you fail to follow the rules, or if you decide to break them willingly:

• Requesting too often - Your topic will be locked, with a link to this rules thread. On second violation, you will be barred from making any requests for one week and face possible warnings. If you decide to break the request limit for a third time, you can start to expect temporary bans.
• Bumping topics before 72 hours - Same as above. Locked topic, barred from requests, and then possible temporary bans.
• Ripping/Plagiarism/Theft - Upon sufficient proof, the most likely outcome is a permanent ban on your account. Ignorance is not an excuse.
• Double Posting/Spam - Reminders, warnings, and temporary bans depending on severity and number of occurrences.
• Failing to Follow Format Guideline - No punishment, but don't be surprised if your request isn't fulfilled.
• Replying to Spam - This is just as bad as spamming. If you post in a rule-breaking thread (even if you report it), you can expect warnings.

Reporting/Contacts
If you see one of these rules being broken, the easiest way to get something done about it is to click the "Report" button. It will send us a message and let us know that something is potentially wrong. If you don't report the thread, then we don't know. If you post in the thread without reporting it, you're going to have a bad time.

If the post has already been reported but nothing has been done, PM the Forum Leader: Narcis_speed6