[kid23455]

That one scene before Bernie/Florian "fun" boat ride is a great example of showing how pissy Niko can be.

He complains about how he has to murder, steal and hurt people to "scrape together a living", despite the fact that he owns 2 really nice places, drives extremely fancy cars around (even being "gifted" Steve's sports car), and sits on a hoard of wealth at all times after that bank robbery. He could easily get out of being a criminal, he had about $400,000 at that point. His complaints were utterly invalid and pissy.

Not that Niko is a bad character, but he is a complainer. That's part of his charm though.

[Miamivicecity]

QUOTE (kid23455 @ Tuesday, Aug 7 2012, 16:35)

That one scene before Bernie/Florian "fun" boat ride is a great example of showing how pissy Niko can be. He complains about how he has to murder, steal and hurt people to "scrape together a living", despite the fact that he owns 2 really nice places, drives extremely fancy cars around (even being "gifted" Steve's sports car), and sits on a hoard of wealth at all times after that bank robbery. He could easily get out of being a criminal, he had about $400,000 at that point. His complaints were utterly invalid and pissy. Not that Niko is a bad character, but he is a complainer. That's part of his charm though.

Yeah, but everyone plays differently. I guess the underlying philosophy in GTA IV is money doesn't buy happiness.

[Mokrie Dela]

While writing City of lies and Justice in Flames (please check them out, in my sig) I've felt more and more attached to Niko. I have spent hours writing passages that examine his past. In City of Lies following Roman's death Niko embarks on a crusade for good, sort of a quest for redemption. I have made efforts to look inside of Niko's soul and why he does what he does.
In doing so i've moved beyond niko "complaining" and MVC's comment about the war ruining him - niko's own words in fact i believe - is spot on. War is not pretty and it's VERY common that it f*cks people up. Niko has morals, but he's still cold, he's a deeply complicated man, and he himself doesn't even know what he is

"What is my trade Roman? I deal death because that is all that is open to me"

The cutscenes where Niko "whines" do well to show his past. After killing vlad Niko explains to Roman about a few things. The meeting with Darko is a good culmination of the history - that we're shown bit by bit. People think Niko whines because R* have written it well, and given us a little bit of information at a time. People take this to be Niko going on and on about it, and its just a misunderstanding of the character and the writing on their part.

Play style comes into the mix - the character has been created with enough room for us to play how we want. We can make Niko a psycho who kills without remorse, and that's explained by his past. Or we can make Niko a smooth, lethal operater (as i do), and have him only kill targets, as mentioned a la Tony Montana, and this too fits the character that R* created.

Niko has to be one of the greatest characters in gameing imo, for that reason. His personality can fit almost any playing style, and can be adjusted - the interaction with Darko, Dimitri, Dwayne/PBX, Ivan the terrible is an example of this.

[Typhus]

I think Niko is an exceptionally cold, ruthless man who is really quite deluded.
He kills, he kills constantly, he has - if I understood him correctly - even participated in the murder and dismemberment of children during the Yugoslav Wars. He has engaged in human trafficking, which probably means that some of his victims were sold as sex slaves. Out of all the protagonists, he is the most repugnant, the most heartless.
Yet he seems the most conflicted.

Let me theorise about what the reason for this is. I believe that he was most likely always a borderline antisocial person. The war didn't make him an evil man, it merely gave him the opportunity to give free reign to his worst impulses. War does that, it can bring out the best or the worst in a man. And if Niko really cut the hands off children and lined their corpses against a church wall, I think it's fair to say he was always pretty malicious.

I propose that the only reason he claims to feel remorse is because it's expected. Because he feels entitled to a happy life, and what do happy, normal people do? They empathise with others, they feel guilt. Niko claims to feel guilt, yet never makes any real effort to stop. He is simply mimicking the emotions of those he sees around him and every protestation of remorse is nothing more than the insincere, meaningless twaddle of a gangland serial killer.
For whilst he is a murderer, unlike every other protagonist, he is truly unable to take responsibility for his crimes. It was Darko's fault, it was Dimitri, it was the Mob, it was Roman.
For all his cool, for all his wit, he has the emotional maturity of a toddler.

[huevos_benedicto_180]

Yeah I'm also in agreement that he isn't a whiner at all. He has clear regrets about his life, and is conflicted with this and the fact that he's good at this & that he has no other option. So while in moments of quite with close friends he will talk about how he regrets the path he's taken, but he always insists that he didn't have a choice and whenever he needs to spring into action he's willing to do so very quickly.

Also, when he reveals his actions during the war to Illyena Faustin that's mentioned above, he doesn't whine, and is very matter-of-fact.

[Mokrie Dela]

Typhus I'm pretty sure didn't kill and dismember the children
The cutscene where he talks of that is him describing what he saw
'the creature that did that doesn't have a soul' - he's talking about his enemies. He found the children dead and it sickened him

He's definitely a conflicted character and in my years 'learning' to write I read about antagonists
There's external antagonists - dimitri and internal. Niko is, in a way, his own enemy. The war spoiled him- I believe that. He's not an evil man, but he's no saint. On some ways he's a lost soul, lacking the drive for redemption. I think he's a hugely complex character - not a perfect man, but he has the depth that allow such examination toward his character. In some ways I think he hides behind the criminal he is.

[CrazyRaisin]

I don't know why anyone would call Niko a whiner, watch the cutscene with the guy with the hacksaw, he has a f*cking saw and Niko says "Your dad likes it in the ass", also the first time Roman is with those Albanians, he breaks one of their arms.

IMO Roman is a whiner. "NIKO WHAT THE f*ck! WE'RE f*ckING DEAD YOU KILLED VLAD!!"

Niko:

[Mokrie Dela]

Niko has face death and thus isn't afraid. Roman hasn't and thus is

Whining has nothing to do with the hacksaw cutscene. Whining is goin on and on about your life, complaining etc. roman whines a little yeah but on occasion niko talks in a way that makes people think he's whining. Fact is rockstar gave him emotion and people think that makes him emo lol

[Starz]

He's been in the army, he knows how to kill but he knews better than most when to do it.

[DaWiesel]

Niko is really cold blodded. He's one hell of a hitman. I think people call Niko a whiner because he sometimes talks about how sh*tty the life is and so on. CJ is a real whiner, but I still like him.

[AceRay]

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Wednesday, Aug 15 2012, 11:56)

Typhus I'm pretty sure didn't kill and dismember the children The cutscene where he talks of that is him describing what he saw 'the creature that did that doesn't have a soul' - he's talking about his enemies. He found the children dead and it sickened him

I always felt that the "creature" he was talking about was himself and he tries to forget why he did. Its left ambiguous whether he actually committed it or not.

[ZombLee]

QUOTE (kid23455 @ Tuesday, Aug 7 2012, 05:35)

That one scene before Bernie/Florian "fun" boat ride is a great example of showing how pissy Niko can be. He complains about how he has to murder, steal and hurt people to "scrape together a living", despite the fact that he owns 2 really nice places, drives extremely fancy cars around (even being "gifted" Steve's sports car), and sits on a hoard of wealth at all times after that bank robbery. He could easily get out of being a criminal, he had about $400,000 at that point. His complaints were utterly invalid and pissy. Not that Niko is a bad character, but he is a complainer. That's part of his charm though.

This always bugged me. Especially when Roman tries to convince Niko to take the deal by suggesting a trip to Vice City as if Niko couldn't easily afford that.

but I'd say that it's more of a flaw in the gameplay mechanics than a flaw in Niko's character.