[shiva s]

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Saturday, Jul 28 2012, 15:20)

I think I must be wrapped in my own romantic notion of the strength and beauty of undiluted or altered humanity... I disagree with the idea of designer babies for the same reason. I don't look into the past either - I understand the importance and natural imperative our species has for advancement. It is essential, for it has taken us this far and should take us further. But I disagree with meddling in the very core of what makes us us. Perhaps it's infantile, but I don't want to be part machine. And if others do so, I'll be left behind. Eventually, it'll be impossible to compete or be taken seriously if augmentation is pervasive. Should that ever happen, I'd be disgusted and repulsed by the state of things. Not for romance or nostalgia, but for the corruption of it all. We're people, not smartphones with tacked on apps. It would detract from our advancement either; I'd much rather look at genetic advancement in the view of eradicating disease and hereditary conditions, rather than customization.

I hear you, man. I've come across people who have the same opinion as yours but majority of people wants to see more and more advancements to be made and they are just ready to get used to it. If at all advancements are gonna be made, it should be done in medical field.

[Romans Cousin Niko]

Naturally the final frontier: Space. Hopefully we will have a peaceful and equal society in which we can explore/colonise the universe.

Perhaps we should just concentrate on this century.

[finn4life]

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Wednesday, Jul 25 2012, 06:30)

I don't want to be competing with someone whose computer aided brain process at a million gigabytes a second. I'm me and I don't want to become a brain in a box. We have computers and that is enough - the most future fiddling we should do is medical, and that should help, not upgrade. Secondly, this technology would no doubt fall to the richer and more advanced nations or classes, and therefore once more open up a huge shift between the unlucky and the privileged. Yet again the gulf would expand, this time rather irrevocably. Innovation is always for the greater good but this is something else; technological elitism which would, as I earlier stated, change our species into something else altogether.

QUOTE (Tyler)

the price of it has gone down considerably and most everyone can afford it. I'll give examples: VCRs, home phones, cell phones, DVD players, gaming consoles, LCD screens, 64-bit CPU, satellite interface, using the internet... Really, all you have to do is look around your house and you'll see that you don't have to be rich to have premium technology.

I am already slightly opposed to the whole human/machine man idea just due to my feelings that i can't really change that i won't go into because that's highly subjective, i wouldn't really want to become bionic, i mean i could easily turn into one of those f*cked up botox/cosmetic surgery addicts eventually becoming more machine than human.

My problem with it would be something along the lines of what El Zilcho mentioned, the rich would get this technology and the poor would miss out, yes eventually it does filter down, but this is a little different, it may not ever filter down, or it is a very long process which leaves more people suffering/at a huger disadvantage until it eventually does come down, TV and DVD players don't cause those problems.
Imagine a few of the wealthiest people in the world could afford to have their brains enhanced to compute at the speed and efficiency of a computer like El Zilcho suggested, they are just going to become incredibly smart combined with human intelligence they will be able to think so much faster than the average human, scheming, plotting, making more money, what if these few people could simply manoeuvre things into a way that benefited them and hindered everyone else? They could just expand their fortunes massively and move themselves into positions of extreme power to ensure that this technology that they have been caressed with does not spread to the general populace, what if they have bionic bodies of extreme strength as well? Who's going to be able to stop them? Capturing someone like that to remove them from society isn't going to happen, they have super-strength, speed and are well armoured, combined with extreme intelligence, plus all the wealth, power and resources they could gain access to, these people could become Hitler/terminator cross-breeds except miles ahead in terms of mental ability, being able to develop weapons far ahead of current technologies, being able to easily foresee and predict circumstances that no regular human could possible foresee. They could manipulate the world like pieces on a chessboard.

Or perhaps a less extreme situation occurs, the rich get these bionic implants so they are super strong and super smart, then they have the same things given to their kids who will also be rich and then pass it down further, these few rich people who's wealth will be ever expanding will be highly advantaged in all forms, they will be better at everything, higher paying non-physical work is where all these super beings will be going so the average human who would normally fit these roles will have to they turn to labour-like jobs or tradespeople earning less cash and falling further down the ladder?
What happens if these richer bionic people take those jobs too? They are smarter, stronger, faster. There is no chance, the poor will get poorer the rich will get richer.
Even worse if these technologies prolong lifespan, the rich will live for very long times amassing empires of wealth and power constantly putting themselves into a better position and others into a worse position and then only passing it down to their lucky heirs who will likely do the same thing.

I don't know if that made much sense, but i'm sort of looking at the worst case scenarios.

@Melchoir below, i wouldn't take my first idea seriously haha, that was a bit of fun, the second scenario is the more serious one.

This post has been edited by finn4life on Sunday, Nov 4 2012, 00:16

[Melchior]

QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Nov 3 2012, 18:08)

what if these few people could simply manoeuvre things into a way that benefited them and hindered everyone else?

And what about their extended family? Their friends? Their maid? Their secretaries? Their corporate/political underlings? Why would it be in their interest to keep this technology from the general public, considering that they are not that far removed from it? In other words, what's the benefit of being a demi-god running a country or corporation that's full of vastly inferior idiots?

QUOTE

these people could become Hitler/terminator cross-breeds

...

[Typhus]

A big worry for the future is that an increase in 'human augmentation' will remove the notion of human endeavour.

Allow me to explain.
In the future, it may be possible for information to be wired into your mind. Imagine the vast recesses of the internet swirling around your brain, whilst I am dubious of the feasibility of such a scheme, I believe it to be a possibility. Now, just imagine the implications of that. Instant access to different languages, instant knowledge of sciences and arts. And whilst it is true that this access to knowledge may not translate to the ability to apply it practically, it is still inside your brain, allowing you to draw on it and use it should you wish.

But what is knowledge unless it has been learned? My best friend studied fine art at University. He spent three years toiling away and after those three years received a degree for his labours. He studied, he suffered but in the end he was rewarded by gaining knowledge.

What would that work mean if an uneducated fellow like myself could simply 'plug in' all that knowledge and have it instantly appear within my mind? It would be stolen knowledge, knowledge not attained via work or understanding but merely given to me.

Another example. An athlete trains in a certain field, whether it be running or boxing. He sacrifices many things and pushes his fragile human frame to its limits in the hopes that he can mould his body into a better form. In the future, man may very well be able to have mechanical arms and legs fitted. Applications which will be able to move at speeds far superior to those attainable by even the fastest of our number, arms able to lift more weight than even the most dedicated of bodybuilders.
All that suffering and sacrifice, instantly rendered obsolete.

My point is that enabling everyone instant access to human augmentation will remove the meaning of either hard-won knowledge or the pride that comes from honing your natural form into something more efficient. It may very well crush the spirit of human endeavour, why work for something when you can have it instantly?

However, consider this as a counter-argument. Human augmentation, the instant accumulation of knowledge, may actually render unto us all a new age of enlightenment. Surely, giving even the most base human near omniscience will finally remove the chains of ignorance and bigotry that have set us so far back?
Some may say that those unpleasant traits are part of the human condition. But why should they be tolerated when our imperfections have led to nothing but injustice and even war? In a sense, becoming more mechanical, more cold and logical may establish a Utopia, that may be possible.

But it would be at the cost of human uniqueness and individuality. A man is defined by his experiences after all, and human augmentation may make such experiences as easy as flipping on a light switch. Every need met, every impulse sated, instant gratification, instant power. It might be worth the loss to attain such benefits, we could become Gods.

[Tyler]

My issue with that notion is that we aren't actually removing human endeavor: someone made the advances necessary for your benefit, someone manufactured the pieces you use, someone theorized the algorithms that make your components work. We are the results of our parents' work in more ways than just being their physical offspring. No one in history has done something on their own, everything leading up to them crossing the finish line or breaking the equation or finishing a shelter or selling a painting was necessary. We didn't lose our appreciation for the hunt once we were able to buy meat at the supermarket, why would we lose our appreciation for the length of time it took to do something just because we can do it faster now?

I admit, there is a chance of forgetting ourselves in some instances, but that is why we study history isn't it? Transhumanism doesn't seek to abolish our success any more than technology in general, the only difference is that we are comparatively raising the bar. Instead of it being an accomplishment to read a novel, it will be an accomplishment to analyse a series and establish themes no one thought to bring up. The experiences are still there, they are just alien to us because we've yet to experience them, Typhus.

[Ziggy455]

QUOTE (shiva s @ Sunday, Jul 22 2012, 11:23)

Though, I'm not so good in english, I can actually understand your point. Recent advancement in technologies has contribued a lot to human life . It reduces his physical work to a great extent but in the same way it makes him lazy. Unfortunately, no one wants the old days back right now. Almost half of the people have become lazy as they are depending upon the technologies, machines which will get get the work done for them etc.

We have machines that talk for us, think for us, check the f*cking weather for us, tell us the time, tell us what to wear, where to eat, and how to talk. It's only a matter of time before nobody goes outside anymore and we all talk through screens. Somehow I don't find the future appealing.

[Tyler]

Going outside is a choice everyone makes, if at some point in the future that choice is rendered unnecessary, some people will stop. Most people will continue to go outside though, because it's still there. Just because we've got new toys to play with doesn't mean we're going to forget where we came from, Ziggy.

[Ziggy455]

QUOTE (Tyler @ Thursday, Nov 29 2012, 16:39)

Going outside is a choice everyone makes, if at some point in the future that choice is rendered unnecessary, some people will stop. Most people will continue to go outside though, because it's still there. Just because we've got new toys to play with doesn't mean we're going to forget where we came from, Ziggy.

I know what you mean, Tyler. People will always read real books, people will always live the old life, but the further we go along, it's like more and more people seem to be attracted to the concept of having everything in life logged and scheduled on a piece of technology.

[zoo3891]

I'm sure quite a few of you are familiar with Cyberpunk. If not, back in the '80s and '90s there was a popular genre of speculative fiction that focused on the point where technology becomes too intrusive. What could happen if our memories are uploaded to a server? Could some cracker gain access to all of the information, and use it against us? Could big corporations insert advertisements into our memories and force us to literally think that we love their products? We can see our world evolving into the worlds of Cyberpunk fiction today, employers will sometimes look for your Facebook profile before hiring you, advertisers are very active on the internet forcing many of us to look at their ads every day, and last year a major corporation's network was taken down causing some big problems in the real world for its customers.

I think that until technological advancements are absolutely reliable we should try to keep our old ways as the standard ways.

[K^2]

QUOTE (Typhus @ Saturday, Nov 3 2012, 21:00)

A big worry for the future is that an increase in 'human augmentation' will remove the notion of human endeavour.

Gibson addresses a lot of these issues. I think we'll find ways around it. I'm sure most people will be content with what technology provides them, and they will be a dead weight on society. But is it any different from today? History has always been made by the driven few, and I'm sure such individuals will want to find real experiences, not happy with anything second hand. These are people who will keep pushing the boundaries.