[dragon_goran_mijo]

QUOTE (Flesh-n-Bone @ Wednesday, Jul 25 2012, 00:26)

QUOTE (dragon_goran_mijo @ Monday, Jul 23 2012, 10:58) Give me a reason CJ is better then Tommy, please. I'm begging you. "HEZ RICH AND STUFF AND CARED FO HIS BRODA" doesn't count. He's black.

sh*t. You got me!

[BabeRuth]

QUOTE (dragon_goran_mijo @ Monday, Jul 23 2012, 09:58)

QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Sunday, Jul 22 2012, 05:11) F#(k this stupid a$$ topic/title! SA Rocks. (@ GTAAction99) I agree CJ was better than Claude, Tommy. Give me a reason CJ is better then Tommy, please. I'm begging you. "HEZ RICH AND STUFF AND CARED FO HIS BRODA" doesn't count.

Claude doesn't even have a personality, he's so f#$king boring, he never talks, and he's a backstabber

And I don't care for Tommey.

[Miamivicecity]

QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 14:56)

QUOTE (dragon_goran_mijo @ Monday, Jul 23 2012, 09:58) QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Sunday, Jul 22 2012, 05:11) F#(k this stupid a$$ topic/title! SA Rocks. (@ GTAAction99) I agree CJ was better than Claude, Tommy. Give me a reason CJ is better then Tommy, please. I'm begging you. "HEZ RICH AND STUFF AND CARED FO HIS BRODA" doesn't count. Claude doesn't even have a personality, he's so f#$king boring, he never talks, and he's a backstabber And I don't care for Tommey.

Who's Tommey?

Tommy is pretty cool though.

[BabeRuth]

QUOTE (Miamivicecity @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 03:59)

QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 14:56) QUOTE (dragon_goran_mijo @ Monday, Jul 23 2012, 09:58) QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Sunday, Jul 22 2012, 05:11) F#(k this stupid a$$ topic/title! SA Rocks. (@ GTAAction99) I agree CJ was better than Claude, Tommy. Give me a reason CJ is better then Tommy, please. I'm begging you. "HEZ RICH AND STUFF AND CARED FO HIS BRODA" doesn't count. Claude doesn't even have a personality, he's so f#$king boring, he never talks, and he's a backstabber And I don't care for Tommey. Who's Tommey? Tommy is pretty cool though.

Sorry, spelled his name wrong

He has his moments, I never got into VC I didn't like it. In all honesty I like VCS better than VC. But thats my opinion.

[dragon_goran_mijo]

No, I agree partly with you, I preffered Vic over Tommy but Tommy had motives and a more driven ambitious personality. He took over thing for himself, not for Sonny. CJ just did sh*t for anyone.

[Chaise]

I couldn't connect with any of the III era protaganists to be honest. Claude was a mute, a backstabber, and was boring.

Tommy just seemed to have no goals except to dominate the whole city, I actually understood why Lance betrayed Tommy Tommy was a complete asshole to him especially in one of the phonecalls between them.

CJ I sorta understood, but half the time he was doin a bunch of pointless sh*t and did whatever the f*ck Tenpenny wanted him to do.

Niko was different though, you could actually connect with him, you knew his goals and why he was doing what he was doing. All the III era protags pasts are very mysterious, you basically know nothing about their past from start to finish. That's why IV's storyline was my favorite by far.

[Th3MaN1]

QUOTE (Chaise @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 11:54)

I couldn't connect with any of the III era protaganists to be honest. Claude was a mute, a backstabber, and was boring. Tommy just seemed to have no goals except to dominate the whole city, I actually understood why Lance betrayed Tommy Tommy was a complete asshole to him especially in one of the phonecalls between them. CJ I sorta understood, but half the time he was doin a bunch of pointless sh*t and did whatever the f*ck Tenpenny wanted him to do. Niko was different though, you could actually connect with him, you knew his goals and why he was doing what he was doing. All the III era protags pasts are very mysterious, you basically know nothing about their past from start to finish. That's why IV's storyline was my favorite by far.

Umm...

Claude's past-Street racer born in San Fierro.

Tommy's past-Worked for the Forelli family in Liberty,until he got caught by the cops.

CJ's past-(PROBABLY)was a member of the Grove Street Family,until his brother Brian died,then he went to Liberty until his mother died.

[dragon_goran_mijo]

Sad part is, you have to 'guess' about CJ's background.

[Chaise]

QUOTE (Th3MaN1 @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 10:56)

QUOTE (Chaise @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 11:54) I couldn't connect with any of the III era protaganists to be honest. Claude was a mute, a backstabber, and was boring. Tommy just seemed to have no goals except to dominate the whole city, I actually understood why Lance betrayed Tommy Tommy was a complete asshole to him especially in one of the phonecalls between them. CJ I sorta understood, but half the time he was doin a bunch of pointless sh*t and did whatever the f*ck Tenpenny wanted him to do. Niko was different though, you could actually connect with him, you knew his goals and why he was doing what he was doing. All the III era protags pasts are very mysterious, you basically know nothing about their past from start to finish. That's why IV's storyline was my favorite by far. Umm... Claude's past-Street racer born in San Fierro. Tommy's past-Worked for the Forelli family in Liberty,until he got caught by the cops. CJ's past-(PROBABLY)was a member of the Grove Street Family,until his brother Brian died,then he went to Liberty until his mother died.

Still, that's about all you know from their pasts though, by the end of GTA IV you know a lot about Niko's past, which really helps you connect with him in my opinion, and helps you understand why he's doing what he's doing.

[Severe]

So, I definitely think SA had the weakest story of the games I've played, and CJ was the worst main character. So, what could one do to fix it? (Spoiler ahead, obviously)

Get rid of OG Loc and his entire mission chain. Loc is unbearable, his missions are stupid and they cast CJ as a chump who'll do anything for his 'friends'. Breaking into a mansion and killing several guards to steal some rhymes? Killing a manager to get Loc a rap career? While Loc does nothing? Either I'm unaware just how important rap was in the early 90s LA, or this is just plain stupid.

The robbery missions with Catalina are just blatant padding and the street racing mission in the middle-of-nowhere seem incredibly out of place.
In Fierro, I'd get rid of the Zero-RC missions. They have nothing to do with anything and seem a colossal waste of time considering what else is at stake. To some extent, this goes for the 'Deconstuction' mission as well. I get the sentiment, but burying someone alive is a pretty hefty payback for someone disrespecting your sister.
Also, the car dealership, not to mention a bloody driving school! You are forced to attend a school... and some consider this the pinnacle of GTA.

Now, I like Toreno, he has some of the best dialogue in the game, but his missions tend to be plain stupid. What the hell does driving a monster-truck time trial prove about Carl? How does it in any way relate to what Toreno has him do later on? Because padding. Also, return of the fecking school, although this time it's flying.

Venturas is pretty cool, but then we find Madd Dogg... I get that Carl might be feeling guilty that he somehow caused Dogg's situation, but parachuting in to take back his house? I don't get why Carl feels obliged to go to such lengths for someone he barely knows. We don't even get to kill OG Loc at the end of it all!

Then there's CJ himself. A big problem is just his voice acting/writing, which ranges from tolerable to un-fecking-bearable.
Personally, I think they should have had CJ be the eldest brother. Basically copying off the Nicholas Cage movie 60 Seconds, Carl left town after getting his brother killed (and at the behest of his mother) hoping that without Carl as an idol, maybe the youngest brother, Sweet, wouldn't get into the gang-life. When his mother is killed, Carl returns and of course finds that Sweet has become a gangster anyhow.
I think this would be more interesting, in terms of the relations between Sweet and CJ and maybe within the gang as a whole, with the difference in mindset between CJ's old crew and Sweets new crew.

Well, just my thoughts.

[ZoomZoom]

I think CJ did all the worthless muck to have cash.

The off road races were fun and Carl did that too for money.
CJ helped Catalina in the robberies because he wanted cash.

I think Toreno gave the Monster truck to prove himself that he could drive and suit the desert.

[Severe]

QUOTE (ZoomZoom @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 16:37)

I think CJ did all the worthless muck to have cash. The off road races were fun and Carl did that too for money. CJ helped Catalina in the robberies because he wanted cash. I think Toreno gave the Monster truck to prove himself that he could drive and suit the desert.

The amount of money is point in itself: Why did he need it? So he could buy weed off the Truth, so that Tenpenny could frame some guy. But why the hell did he need so much weed? Surely less than a trunkfull could've done it? Granted, we don't ever see exactly how much weed we're talking about, or if it is all used in the frame-up, but still. It just feels like Rockstar saying "We didn't know what to do with this place, so here, go rob some stuff." and then they pat each other on the back.
Same goes for the driving/flying school.

And why a monster-truck? It's just random fan-service, after which we never see it again. Like they said "Well, monstertrucks are cool, we'll put that in a mission, that's sure to make some teenager awe-gasm."
This also goes for the mission where you're chasing OG Loc in a hovercraft. Where the hell did that come from?

[ZoomZoom]

I think CJ needed to be rich and when he returned to Los Santos he would have wished to be a powerful man

[BabeRuth]

QUOTE (dragon_goran_mijo @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 07:41)

CJ just did sh*t for anyone.

Really?! no dude, he was trying to get his brother out of jail, obviously you didn't listen to the story.

[Flesh-n-Bone]

QUOTE (Severe @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 15:51)

The amount of money is point in itself: Why did he need it? So he could buy weed off the Truth, so that Tenpenny could frame some guy. But why the hell did he need so much weed? Surely less than a trunkfull could've done it? Granted, we don't ever see exactly how much weed we're talking about, or if it is all used in the frame-up, but still. It just feels like Rockstar saying "We didn't know what to do with this place, so here, go rob some stuff." and then they pat each other on the back. Same goes for the driving/flying school. And why a monster-truck? It's just random fan-service, after which we never see it again. Like they said "Well, monstertrucks are cool, we'll put that in a mission, that's sure to make some teenager awe-gasm." This also goes for the mission where you're chasing OG Loc in a hovercraft. Where the hell did that come from?

Lol @ asking why he needed money. Wouldn't you do something that suits you as a person if it makes you money? In your case, it may not be crime, but doing a few small jobs here and there. And he needed the weed to frame that DA guy like you said. How much it was and such is completely unnecessary and just nitpicking IMO.

Driving school is just a fun side mission that you don't need to do to advance the story, but you need it to do the Wang autos missions which is a car shop business, once again, owned for MONEY. Flying school just to let you get a grip on how to fly since planes were not seen in previous GTA games (excluding VC's skimmer which doesn't work on ground) and it goes along with the story of Toreno forcing you to do risky missions just to get your brother out of prison.

And once again, you're nitpicking with the monster truck thing. They chose that car because it can drive up hills and to let you know that such a vehicle exists and can be used for fun. Sometimes missions don't have to make perfect sense and are just used to introduce you to new elements of the game. Would driving a Washington make you feel better? The exact same goes for that OG Loc mission. The hovercraft and go-kart are there just to let you know that these vehicles exist. If it makes you feel better, spawn a helicopter to chase OG Loc and nothing changes. The objective is still chasing him until he reaches his label HQ.

[GTAboyWonder]

QUOTE (ZoomZoom @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 08:54)

I think CJ needed to be rich and when he returned to Los Santos he would have wished to be a powerful man

STOP PROTECTING THAT DAMN GAME!! YOU'RE ONLY GUESSING THINGS! Carl only came to LS to bury his mom. In NO way did he ever say he wanted to be rich, he only said that he wanted to stay to help the gang.

[Th3MaN1]

QUOTE (GTAboyWonder @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 20:42)

QUOTE (ZoomZoom @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 08:54) I think CJ needed to be rich and when he returned to Los Santos he would have wished to be a powerful man STOP PROTECTING THAT DAMN GAME!! YOU'RE ONLY GUESSING THINGS! Carl only came to LS to bury his mom. In NO way did he ever say he wanted to be rich, he only said that he wanted to stay to help the gang.

Well look,another.OK,take Niko for example.He traveled to LC to get rid of his past,and Bulgarin(of course!),but he failed.And what did he do??Work.For what?FOR MONEY.So that's basically the same as CJ.
CJ didn't work with "normal" humans.But neither did Niko.The only normal human I have ever seen in GTA(my opinion) was Donald Love.
And ZoomZoom is right.I don't want to defend him(he can do that himself) but didn't Carl tell Sweet "let's get you some clothes man".Only people with lots of money say that(most of the time).He also argued with Sweet that he needed to check other things("commitments") he made.
ALSO,let's not forget that CJ never wanted to go back to the hood after Sweet was free.

[deli2000]

People are defending the f*cking flying school of all things? Seriously, that had no purpose other than to pad out the game. I've got a feeling that if there was a mission where CJ literally gave blowjobs for pennies people would defend it, saying stuff like "HE NEEDED MONNIE FUR HIZ BRUTHA!!!" or "SHUT UP IT WAZ REALLY FUN CJ WAZ REALLY COOL!"

For me, the first part of the game was stereotypical "Boyz in the Hood" Material that I wasn't particularly fond of. But whatever, it stuck to it's source material. But Zero's missions, OG Loc's missions, Flying School, f*cking Catalina. What the sh*t?! There is literally a mission where you just watch a cutscene of CJ shaking hands with Woozie. That's the whole f*cking mission.

All GTA's have suffered from inconsistent storylines, but SA is the worst.

[bucsfan]

I don't think people understand CJ completely as a character so let me try to get a handle on this (granted I only skimmed through the OP). CJ didn't come from the suburbs where he was encouraged to pick up a book and become a doctor. He was raised in the gang-riddled hoods of Los Santos. Helping your hood was made out to be the top priority in his life while growing up. When things went haywire, he bailed to Liberty City to get away from it. Sweet calls him, tells him their mom is dead, so he must return to bury his mom. C.R.A.S.H. confronts him almost immediately off the plane and threatens to frame CJ for Officer Pendelberry's murder if CJ doesn't comply with their orders. Meanwhile back in the hood... While at the cemetary, after Sweet explains all the homies who had died and when they were ambushed, CJ truly understands how messed up things are in the hood. To gain the respect of his peers, mainly his brother, he assists them in taking the hood back.

Beginning spoilers now

They get some momentum going taking the hood back when Cesar drops the bomb on him about Smoke and Ryder working with the Ballas to help push the Crack as well as finding the Green Sabre that was seen spraying the CJ's mother's house. CJ needs to help Sweet but then remembers that Sweet went off with the homies to cap some Ballas after a tip he had gotten from Tenpenny. CJ realizes that this is most likely an ambush, and it was. After the shootout, Sweet is arrested, but C.R.A.S.H. spares CJ from the cell by forcing him to work for them. He also goes and robs banks with Cesar's cousin to get some much needed money. He moves on to San Fierro after receiving a deed for a garage there. The garage has seen better days but Kendl convinces CJ to make something out of it. The Truth has some connections in San Fierro and helps him put a team together of mechanics. The storyline in San Fierro has two sides, there's the business aspect and taking down the crack lords in the city. After killing all of the major crack lords, he gets a call from a mystery man telling him to visit a ranch in the desert. He does odd missions before the mystery man reveals himself to be one of the "crack pushers" Mike Toreno, whom CJ thought he killed. Turns out Toreno is a secret government agent that needs somebody like CJ to help him out. A lot of people find this part of the story to be ridiculous, but I think it's supposed to be humorous. In the 90's, there was some paranoia and suspicion in the deserts of Nevada about secret government agencies and Area 51 and all that. I think this is supposed to knock that aspect of American culture, which I thought they did very well. But anyway, Toreno informs CJ that knows all about him and that if CJ works for him, he can free his brother. So CJ does that. The Truth missions are just for fun, they carry no real weight in the storyline other than that you see that what he's talking about isn't complete BS. Now the triad missions don't have a lot to do with the overall story too much either. But they do carry some weight since CJ needs to protect his investment in Wu Zi's casino. It does stray a little from the main plot, but it's not all for nothing. Also, who didn't love seeing Ken Rosenberg in this game? Becoming Madd Dogg's manager was a strange turn in the story, but I guess Carl was just in the right place at the right time. He felt guilty for ruining Madd Dogg's life after stealing his rhyme book and killing off his original manager for OG Loc. And CJ knows the business side of things now, so he's qualified for the job. Then Toreno keeps his word and frees Sweet, so him and Carl get back to work. They expand their territories and also look to bring down the last big crack pusher, Big Smoke. After they get rid of the traitor, Tenpenny tries to screw CJ over and take the money he got by killing Smoke. CJ doesn't do it so Tenpenny attempts to shoot him and burn him alive, but all the fails. So CJ and Sweet chase after Tenpenny in a big chase all around Los Santos until it finally comes to a close when Tenpenny crashes the firetruck and dies from his injuries. After that he, his family, and friends talk about the future. Then it ends with CJ saying he's "fittin' to hit the block, see what's happening." I left out a few things, but that's the basic jist of it. Everything happens for a reason except for maybe the Zero and Truth missions.

I don't think this is the best story in all of the GTA's or the most realistic, but it's a good one and probably the funnest. I find it much more interesting than working for various mob families or being renegade bikers. But to be clear, I love every GTA game I've played. I find San Andreas to be the best out of all of them, but the lowest I'd rate any GTA game I've ever played might be an 8.5 for Liberty City Stories. For the most part, all of them have great storylines and have a tremendous amount of effort put into them.

And while some of you may not like the whole 90's West Coast gangbanger story, it was a big part of American culture in the 90's, like drug wars in Miami in the 80's. San Andreas managed to tackle West Coast gang life, crooked cops, the LA riots, secret government agents and projects, Chinatown gang wars in San Francisco, the crack epidemic, the casino industry in Las Vegas, and going from rags to riches, a GTA staple. It might not be everybody's cup of tea, but it accomplished what it set out to do, and I think it deserves some credit for that.

[Flesh-n-Bone]

QUOTE (deli2000 @ Thursday, Jul 26 2012, 19:29)

People are defending the f*cking flying school of all things? Seriously, that had no purpose other than to pad out the game. I've got a feeling that if there was a mission where CJ literally gave blowjobs for pennies people would defend it, saying stuff like "HE NEEDED MONNIE FUR HIZ BRUTHA!!!" or "SHUT UP IT WAZ REALLY FUN CJ WAZ REALLY COOL!" For me, the first part of the game was stereotypical "Boyz in the Hood" Material that I wasn't particularly fond of. But whatever, it stuck to it's source material. But Zero's missions, OG Loc's missions, Flying School, f*cking Catalina. What the sh*t?! There is literally a mission where you just watch a cutscene of CJ shaking hands with Woozie. That's the whole f*cking mission. All GTA's have suffered from inconsistent storylines, but SA is the worst.

Anyone can pick on one random mission out of 100 and whine about it being meaningless, but you have understand why it is the way it is. You probably have not finished the game and just randomly stumbled upon that cutscene and have no real idea why it happens. That's like me whining about GTA IV and that cutscene with Pegorino before the final mission and say "HEY, THAT'S JUST A CUTSCENE!". The meaning behind the Woozie handshake was that they have signed a deal and CJ officially has a stake in the casino along with the Triads, which fits right in the Las Venturas storyline of him doing big business in the LV gambling game.

As for the rest, Zero's missions are not part of the storyline (you can skip them). OG Loc's missions fit the "Boyz-n-the-Hood" period of the story because Loc is part of the GSF and is interested in launching a rap career, which CJ agrees to help him out with. Flying school was just there to teach you how to fly and the only reason anyone would bitch about it is because they just suck at flying, and besides, the rewards are awesome as you get a HUNTER at the airstrip if you get all gold. And Catalina's missions make perfect sense because Carl desperately needs money after being left out in the woods with nobody to help him out with.