[Magic_Al]

I recently read the books All Your Base Are Belong To Us: How Fifty Years of Videogames Conquered Pop Culture by Harold Goldberg and Jacked: The Outlaw Story of Grand Theft Auto by David Kushner. Both books attempt to go behind the scenes at Rockstar. Goldberg covers a general history of video games and the life stories of Sam and Dan Houser while Kushner covers the history of GTA specifically. Sam Houser cooperated with Goldberg's book and granted long interviews, but turned down Kushner. Kushner bases his book on assembled material from all the research and interviews he's done with Rockstar people over 10 years for different publications.

The biggest conflict between the two books is completely opposite accounts of Sam Houser's role and intentions in the creation of the GTA SA sex minigame that came to be known as Hot Coffee. Summaries for those who haven't read the books:

According to Goldberg, interviewing Sam and Dan Houser recently, Sam was aware of the sex minigame but it "had been nixed by all involved in making decisions." When the mod unlocking it was posted online, Sam's reaction was a "sinking feeling" and disbelief that this could have happened and that the content was still on the disk. Sam said, "It's unfinished. Not meant to be in the game." Dan said, "You can see the usual quality isn't there. Everyone should see that this wasn't intentional." Sam goes on, "This is not how CJ would be with a girl," and says if they'd finished it it would have been more stylish and "Barry White" not crude and childish. He disowns it and calls it embarrassing.

According to Kushner, quoting internal emails from 2004 and 2005, Sam was not the victim but the perpetrator: Sam made a list of graphic sexual content he wanted in the game and asked for research about how far they could go with the ratings boards and retailers. When he found out they couldn't as go far as he wanted, he ranted about unfairness and reluctantly agreed the sex had to be cut for the game to make money. But, he still planned to put out a patch to add the sex back to the PC version. He wanted a way for their unedited vision to be out there. When modders released the Hot Coffee unlock before Rockstar could release their own, Sam called it "pretty cool" but still wanted to do an official version to make it easier. But, as Rockstar began to sense that sh*t was hitting the fan, it was decided to deny responsibility, and the crisis got worse from there.

I'd encourage people to read both books. I think Kushner has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and is way too sympathetic to Jack Thompson, whose views are very heavily featured in the book as the so-called other side of the story. If Kushner is a bit biased against Rockstar, it doesn't mean his details are wrong. Goldberg has official cooperation from Rockstar but that special privilege can make him biased the other way, to not look into what people who left Rockstar thought happened. I think the truth is somewhere in between these accounts but Kushner's details mostly ring true to me.

[Staten]

Does the book say where Kushner got the internal emails from?

[DarrinPA]

I know Hot Coffee is looked down upon here [i.e. lockable] but you do bring up good points that are validated by actual proof from the Housers themselves. It's hard to say which is the truth: Had I not know about the GTA V cars being leaked on a Max Payne disk, my opinion would be a little different. Apparently things do get past the coders, but this was quite a big chunk of code compared to Max Payne's car leak is simply a text list of cars. I guess there are two sides to every story [and sometimes more] the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Zee]

Its totally obvious that the Housers added that then played choir boys saying it was a 3rd party mod. They lied outright. I dont blame them, they were under a lot of pressure, but it should stand for the record that they did indeed intend to have some form of sex minigame.

[lil weasel]

I had always thought that it was the "Big Secret" announcement that never appeared.

[Big Remi]

If Kushner's account is correct, that would explain the 3 brothels found in the hidden interior universe.

[ily0405]

I guess there are two sides to every story [and sometimes more] the truth lies somewhere in between.

This post has been edited by Girish on Tuesday, May 22 2012, 19:06

[huevos_benedicto_180]

It is a tricky situation where either side could be accused of bias

Too tough to call for me, I'll be sitting on the fence.

[BlackCorsair]

Frankly I think there was intention behind using that kind of hidden minigame in the product. It was crude compared to the rest of the system perhaps, but more advanced in a way that shouldn`t have been if there was no intention of going further.

I think they were testing waters in how far they could push, I got no problem with it.

[Nukey Shay]

Edit: <no discussion of how to HC>
Sorry, but the facts fit the Goldberg account best.

BTW there is another theory...which basically says that the content existed to produce the exact effect that it did produce (generating tons of free publicity for their game). I don't buy it, tho...since it ended up costing R* quite a lot to satisfy retailers following the discovery, and San Andreas didn't really NEED all that extra exposure anyway - it was still the top-selling game of it's time.

@lil weasel:
R* made no statement regarding a "big" secret. That is what some players assumed after reading that there were still undiscovered (i.e. undocumented) secrets to be found. A year after release (at the time of the interview), this was probably true. Not so much anymore.

This post has been edited by lil weasel on Tuesday, Jun 5 2012, 18:59

[DarrinPA]

The reason why people like Kushner think that Rockstar was the perpetrator is that Rockstar had planned on having download-able content. Wheither or not that involved 'hot coffee' or just additional missions and DYOM we will NEVER know. But we just have to go with what we already know, what has been said by the Housers, and what 3rd party people like PartickW have said.

[Nukey Shay]

Calm down...it was a retorical question in the top line

[deepthroatgta6]

I just completed reading Jacked and tbh I feel sad about the hot coffee scandal. Considering Kushner's account, I think Sam Houser overdid it. I loved his approach towards always wanting to present something which is a taboo in gaming. Its sad that in the end he became a victim of the narrow minded society which has double standards for everything. GTA IV being so less controversial is a turn off to me. It marks the end of the enthusiasm for crossing the socially acceptable limits all the time. Rockstar really acted pussies when sh*t hit the fan. If they made a controversial game, they should have stood with it. The scattering of the co-founders was a sad result. I hope they find their rebelious spirit again.

[cidamelo]

deepthroatgta6 but maybe the 'rebelious spirit' would put an end on GTA Series at the point!