[Indi]

Rules:
No polls, just a review and your opinion on why you believe the film you've chosen should stay higher up in the list. 50 words or more, 40 is accepted if you have expressed your opinion in a satisfactory standard.

Have fun!

[El_Diablo]

don't you mean Starship TroopERS?

[Fnorg]

While I did enjoy Starship Troopers, I think it went over my head because I don't think it's half as 'brilliant' as it's made out to be. It's a fun enough movie and has no qualms with making fun of itself but I guess I just don't get it. Full Metal Jacket on the other hand, is part of my holy trinity of Vietnam movies (also includes Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter). It's a wicked, bizarre drama and you don't think much of it until that certain plot twist halfway through which makes the viewer snap to attention. Suddenly, you're no longer in boot camp, but in Vietnam. The first half is the one I've seen praised the most, but the second half is almost just as strong, with its almost surreal tone. It's far from realistic (I assume), but it's one of the better portrayals of the gist of the Vietnam war.

I vote for Full Metal Jacket.

[El_Diablo]

honestly I don't know how you compare Starship Troopers to Full Metal Jacket.

one is a classic example of masterpiece film making by a mastercraft film maker, and the other is Starship Troopers.
it's not even close.

there's a reason why FMJ is standard fare for critical analysis in virtually every film making class you could find.
meanwhile Starship Troopers is an above-average attempt (at best) to adapt an excellent novel for the silver screen in a day and age where flashy action scenes bring in much more money than metaphorical lessons about technocratic, futuristic, dictatorial governments. and thus you have big, bright colored aliens ripping people in half contrasted by a rave with electric violins and topless sex scenes.

Full Metal Jacket wins hands down.
it's the better film in every aspect.

This post has been edited by El_Diablo on Monday, May 7 2012, 21:52

[Cuban Warlord]

I've only seen Starship Troopers once and I wasn't a fan. I really enjoy films that portray a certain time period and I enjoy FMJ's Vietnam time period. Certain Sci-Fi movies do appeal to me but Starship Troopers didn't do it for me. Like others have said I don't have much to compare because I feel FMJ is the far superior film in most aspects.

+1 for Full Metal Jacket.

[ShaneHunter]

Stanley Kubrick makes the camera a character in its own right, he is one of the most fully rounded directors that ever existed and while full metal jacket isnt his best it is still a great film about the horrors of war (done in a different tone than other films covering the same subject) the film is basically about the transformation of normal young people into killing machines.

Never cared for Starship Troopers to be honest so that might be a little bit of favoritism from my part.

[John The Grudge]

Full Metal Jacket versus Starship Troopers?

Full Metal Jacket is of course the superior film by a mile in every possible way.

[Robinski]

Full Metal Jacket is a Kubrick film in every regard. And depending on your mindset, that's not always a great thing.

FMJ is very well crafted, and it's obvious that intention just flows out of every pore of the film. Not a thing was incidental or left to chance, and you get a very calculated and intellectual exploration of both the military and war, and the effects they have on men thanks to this. But, and it may just be stemming from my age when I watched it a couple of years ago, but it just felt cold to me. It felt like an essay that had been turned into a screenplay; taking very specific and clear ideas and trying very hard to turn them into art.

At the other end of explorations of war you have Starship Troopers. It's much less cold and is much bolder in its message. Essentially, it's a slightly-more subtle Team America, in terms of it's political message. The xenophobic and imperialism messages are smacking you in the face, but they're walloping you with a dead bug's leg to a chant of OO-RAH. So, even if you don't get or appreciate the satirical elements of the film you might enjoy the ridiculous action and simplistic narrative.

I'll admit it makes me look like a philistine, but I enjoyed Starship Troopers much more than Full Metal Jacket. Clearly, FMJ is a much better film in just about all regards, but it just feels cold. Much in the same way that the Mona Lisa may be technically very impressive, but I'd enjoy a Picasso piece much more.

[DeeperRed]

Too me this is a hard match up. I really like both films, but I do have to sort of agree with Robliski here, that its quite a cold film. I also am not a huge fan of war films (Focusing on actual past wars) however Full Metal Jacket was a brilliant watch. However ts one of those brilliant films you just don't watch again. It made a strong point, and was a very well crafted piece but it had nothing drawing me back. On the other hand we have Starship Troopers which I have watched many a time. I find it hilarious and brutal with its satire and gore. Now in technical terms Full Metal Jacket is a better film and defiantly should be watched but its not an enjoyable rewatch, Starship troopers is. You can watch it with you mates, and laugh a long but also appreciate the points its trying to make so im going with

Starship Troopers

[Boss Greaser]

I'm from buenos aires and I say killem all!!


Starship Troopers for sure.

[AceRay]

Starship Troopers started out as a tightly written and fairly good satire, but soon dissolved into a generic action shooter with a bizzar out of place love triangle. Frankly, i wasn't very impressed. Full Metal Jacket is a pants wetting thrill ride and I loved it, so I vote for FMJ

[El_Diablo]

I love how the people who voted for Starship Troopers also admitted that FMJ is the better film

[ajbns87]

Definitely Full Metal Jacket, one of the greatest war movies of all time vs an average sci -fi flick, only one clear winner.

[DeeperRed]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Tuesday, May 8 2012, 20:54)

I love how the people who voted for Starship Troopers also admitted that FMJ is the better film

Well theres nothing to love really.

We accept its a better film technically but for many (me included) its what you find more entertaining thats matter. I know Lord of the rings is technically a brilliant film, but I really can't get into fantasy films, including that whole trilogy so I really don't like any of them. Full Metal Jacket is a piece of art and delivers a good message however, I never plan on rewatching it because I know I will be bored.

This post has been edited by DeeperRed on Tuesday, May 8 2012, 21:30

[Tycek]

The best way and only way to compare these movies is by stripping them both from their legends and names of the creators. When you do that you will see that these movies are almost identical in terms of story and ideals. Both are telling about growing, both physically and mentally, about evolving from kid into man via war and killing, about fighting for your flag and dying for it. These movies despite being set in totally (apparently) different times and sharing exactly the same story. Heinlein had written his book in the '50 and hide some ideas there. USA was of course federation (a bit nazified, but still fighting under eagle banner), where comunists were ugly bugs from Klendathu. Do you see the resemblance here? Sure you do. Both Starship Troopers are even sharing similar characters. Kitten who was laughing from Drill instructor, and PVT. Joker who was joking at the drill. Breckinridge who died during training and Pyle who commited suicide after the training.

There is some thing that differs them from each other. Full Metal Jacket is dead serious, where Starship Troopers was showing you the finger in every small moment. Kubrick vs Verhoeven. Seriousness vs irony. There is one more difference between them. Verhoeven knew how to create likeable and memorable characters. Most of the guys were cannon fodder there, but they were interesting and you actually felt attached to them. I spent almost two hours with guys from FMJ, but I can't say I cared about any of them. I couldn't care for Joker, Cowboy or rest of them. They were just dummies with guns in their hands. I remembered Pyle, maybe because of pity, maybe because of his transformation.

Parts of FMJ were strangely disjointed. I kind of felt like Boot camp and Vietnam were from two different movies. Joker and Cowboy felt totally different in two parts of the movie, maybe because of Pyle who stole first part and rest of the troopers didn't have time to show themselves. Scenes like running with guns and playing with crotches weren't very appealing for me. Maybe it's USMC training program, but it was surely pulling me off.

Movies are made mostly for entertainment, but after this one I was more disturbed than entertained. Perfect word to describe Full Metal Jacket is cold like guys before me said. It doesn't matter if the guys are soaked with sweat after training in South Carolina or after fight in Vietnam jungle, all you felling is strange cold.

Starship Troopers on other hand is great entertainment, because it can almost perfectly show both irony and sadness, fun and dead. War never was that funny and disturbing at the same time.

My vote goes to Starship Troopers.

This post has been edited by Tycek on Tuesday, May 8 2012, 21:58

[Indi]

Does anyone reckon I should put in a vote for this even though I missed the first 20 mins a month ago?

Full Metal Jacket I missed the first 20 mins of.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (Tycek @ Tuesday, May 8 2012, 14:24)

Full Metal Jacket is dead serious, where Starship Troopers was showing you the finger in every small moment. Kubrick vs Verhoeven. Seriousness vs irony. There is one more difference between them. Verhoeven knew how to create likeable and memorable characters. Most of the guys were cannon fodder there, but they were interesting and you actually felt attached to them. I spent almost two hours with guys from FMJ, but I can't say I cared about any of them. I couldn't care for Joker, Cowboy or rest of them. They were just dummies with guns in their hands. I remembered Pyle, maybe because of pity, maybe because of his transformation.

I'm sorry, but I don't think any of this is very accurate.

FMJ is not dead serious.
there is plenty of humor to be found throughout. it is slightly more dark in nature, but it is always there to break up the action. if you didn't find an opportunity to laugh during FMJ, then I'm afraid most of the references were simply over your head.

there is also plenty of irony in FMJ; some based on the (lack of) inherent morality and some based on the situation the main character (Joker, the reporter) finds himself in.
even the movie poster itself is based largely on the irony that eventually becomes the driving force of the enire film.



Born To Kill... peace sign.
it's right there smacking you in the face.

and the characters in FMJ were at least as memorable as those in Troopers if not more so.
for me it's the exact opposite. I don't remember anything about the characters in Troopers. they were mostly generic stereotypes of strong protag, fearful antag, and slightly ambiguous supporting roles with very little distinguishing characteristics aside from the superficial.

the development of characters in FMJ was much more painstaking and detailed.
obviously Pyle changes.
and Joker goes through quite a significant transformation by the end.

QUOTE

Parts of FMJ were strangely disjointed. I kind of felt like Boot camp and Vietnam were from two different movies.

you are the first person I have ever heard say anything like this.
the boot camp portion of the film is integral to understanding where the characters are from and what they are going through as they are thrust into the later conflict. in spite of being in a different location, it's attached at the hip to the rest of the movie.

QUOTE

Movies are made mostly for entertainment, but after this one I was more disturbed than entertained. Perfect word to describe Full Metal Jacket is cold like guys before me said. It doesn't matter if the guys are soaked with sweat after training in South Carolina or after fight in Vietnam jungle, all you felling is strange cold.

this is a very presumptive argument to make, which means it doesn't hold a lot of merit.
first of all, MOST movies are made strictly for entertainment. this doesn't mean that movies are supposed to be made "mostly" for entertainment.
there's a huge difference there.

the medium of film drama has no inherent purpose.
the purpose is whatever the writer/director intends for it to be.

a movie like FMJ is supposed to be about reflection and contemplation. it's supposed to make you think. about war, about conflict, about the point of it all, about life, about death. you're not necessarily supposed to be whooping and hollering at the screen and laughing hysterically.

it's not that kind of film.
you shouldn't expect it to be.

sometimes FMJ felt cold, I agree. but that's because Kubrick is brilliant.
when FMJ feels cold that means the director got his message across.

but I don't feel like the entire thing was cold. most people I've watched it with or talked about it with don't feel that way either.
it was serious when it needed to be and was otherwise a very entertaining film. I don't know anyone who would describe FMJ as NOT entertaining.

it was just a completely different kind of action than you got from Troopers.
it was no less entertaining or enjoyable.

QUOTE

Starship Troopers on other hand is great entertainment, because it can almost perfectly show both irony and sadness, fun and dead. War never was that funny and disturbing at the same time.

as I have already pointed out, your conclusion merely reinforces the notion that you didn't fully understand FMJ or it's themes or it's message.
FMJ was entertaining. it beautifully illustrated the fine, ironic line between joy and pain as well as life and death. it presented America's most controversial war as exactly that; a disturbing dichotomy between Hell on Earth and the humanity that average men try and maintain in order to (psychologically) make it through another day.

there have been hundreds of lists over the years put together by critics, fans, magazines, and the movie industry itself trying to rank the best 100 films.
there's a reason why Starship Troopers has never reached a higher spot on any of those lists than Full Metal Jacket...

[DeeperRed]

Thats great an all Diablo but its f*cking pointless at the end of the day. It's someones opinion. It doesn't matter what other lists by other people have been made. This is GTAF list, based on the thoughts of GTAF members.

If Tycek didn't find it entertaining then he didn't find it entertaining. Everyone has different tastes, don't think yours are any superior because your film is more critically acclaimed. I fully understood FMJ message, I knew what Kubrick was trying to do and like I said I enjoyed it for what it was but I didn't enjoy it as much as Starship Troopers which I have watched countless time. I am not just going to vote for a film because its technically better then the other, I can acknowledge it but if I had a better time watching one then the other, then the one is going to win.

[SIKKS66]

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Tuesday, May 8 2012, 23:24)

Thats great an all Diablo but its f*cking pointless at the end of the day. It's someones opinion. It doesn't matter what other lists by other people have been made. This is GTAF list, based on the thoughts of GTAF members. If Tycek didn't find it entertaining then he didn't find it entertaining. Everyone has different tastes, don't think yours are any superior because your film is more critically acclaimed. I fully understood FMJ message, I knew what Kubrick was trying to do and like I said I enjoyed it for what it was but I didn't enjoy it as much as Starship Troopers which I have watched countless time. I am not just going to vote for a film because its technically better then the other, I can acknowledge it but if I had a better time watching one then the other, then the one is going to win.

This why I haven't bothered with this Top 100 contest this time around. Last time f*ckers kept on starting dumbass arguments, getting butthurt cause people were voting for unpopular choices. Snobs, basically.

Just for the heck of it, I'm going to cast my vote here. I love Starship Troopers. To this day it is the only movie I've sat and watched, rewound it (yep, VHS, this was a while ago) and watched it again. I f*cking loved it and still do. Casper van Dien has even sent me a few messages on Twitter!

I enjoyed the gore, the one-liners, the camp and cheesy acting. It's entirely the point for the film to be like that. And don't say there isn't some special talent at work here; Michael Ironside, Seth Gillam, Dean Norris and Neil Patrick f*cking Harris showing some fine acting chops. It's fun, it's silly and the message it tries to deliver sometimes gets shrouded by the sheer badassery of the Mobile Infantry but dammit I love the film. ST gets my vote.

[ThePinkFloydSound]

I'm going to go with Full Metal Jacket. I can relate more to the fear, the pain, the absurdity of war in it's context than Starship Troopers. I can relate more as a human to the emotions of the people in FMJ. That war happened and I often think how people can deal with that. Over 1 million US troops were sent to Vietnam. That's insane. The US got annihilated in that war thousands died and the Vietcong got what they wanted in the end. I find it fascinating, watching the lives and the reality of war. I like the way this film doesn't glamourize being in the army like so many other cheesy American films.

I mean it's a good film but it's kinda cheesy. It's like they wanted to be taken seriously but you can't because it just comes off a little cheesier.

There's a reason the it only around 64% positive and FMJ is closer to 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Are some of you kids just voting for Starship Troopers as it was one of your childhood films? I'm thinking this is the case for a lot of ST fans here.