[Otter]

Congratulations on successfully proving that you're off your f*cking rocker. Didn't take long. And now you're just pedantically attacking my language and using completely f*cking roundabout arguments.

Go tell the professional IT guy in the Macbook thread that he's a f*cking moron again, and you'll have had another incredibly successful day on the forums.

This post has been edited by Otter on Sunday, May 6 2012, 01:17

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (Otter @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 20:11)

Congratulations on successfully proving that you're off your f*cking rocker. Didn't take long. And now you're just pedantically attacking my language and using completely f*cking roundabout arguments. Go tell the professional IT guy in the Macbook thread that he's a f*cking moron again, and you'll have had another incredibly successful day on the forums.

First point. You completely run out of counterpoints, so you instead just call me crazy. Way to prove your point.

Second point. Now you bring up other topics because you're really out of counterpoints. Way to go. I didn't call him a moron. I pointed out that he was wrong with both of his comments, and pointed out the hypocrisy in his statements.
Not that him being an IT professional even means anything. My father's girlfriend brought her computer to several shops, all them told her they were unable to fix it without replacing the entire thing. I had it up and running in under an hour, and I'm a f*cking roofer.

[Otter]

I think I've significantly proven that yes, the kid was within his rights. Yes, the schoolboard has recognized this. And yes, even a roofer can be wrong about things.

[ska]

QUOTE (bud23 @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 18:22)

First-Grader Suspended for Singing ‘I’m Sexy and I Know It’ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012...-and-i-know-it/ what´s next?

I call bullsh*t. You know the little tramp was just asking for it.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (Otter @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 20:33)

I think I've significantly proven that yes, the kid was within his rights. Yes, the schoolboard has recognized this. And yes, even a roofer can be wrong about things.

Way to completely miss every point I've made thus far. At this point I'll have to assume that you're not even reading my posts, just scanning for key words that you can fit into what you think is some sort of counterpoint.

[Otter]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 17:36)

QUOTE (Otter @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 20:33) I think I've significantly proven that yes, the kid was within his rights. Yes, the schoolboard has recognized this.  And yes, even a roofer can be wrong about things. Way to completely miss every point I've made thus far. At this point I'll have to assume that you're not even reading my posts, just scanning for key words that you can fit into what you think is some sort of counterpoint.

Your points being:
- the kid was attacking atheists/non Christians
- he had no reason to argue the school's decision in the first place
- it was weak of character for him to fight his suspension
- he has no right to freedom of expression in this case

...all of which beign proven wrong by the fact that he does, under the charter of rights and freedoms, have the right to express himself and he was unjustly (again, the charter) expelled. To suggest that arguing this violation of his rights is somehow weak of character is therefore frankly absurd.

Please, let me know what I'm missing. In point form if possible. You're getting exhausting.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE

Please, let me know what I'm missing. In point form if possible. You're getting exhausting.

>Your rights are limited as a minor
>Your rights are limited as a student at a public school
In this case it's being in a school that really matters.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support him wearing the shirt, just not to school. He needs to learn some discretion.

- the kid was attacking atheists/non Christians
- he had no reason to argue the school's decision in the first place
- it was weak of character for him to fight his suspension
- he has no right to freedom of expression in this case

>He was attacking the beliefs of others, which is offensive and not tolerated in the school system. He can wear it wherever else he wants, just not school.
>He didn't have a reason to. He was told not to wear on multiple occasions, but did anyways. He broke the rules, he was suspended. What did he expect?
>That was far from a major point, I was just pointing out that you had just said people crying to big brother was weak of character, but you support him crying to a lawyer. When in the end, it's the same concept.
>In this case, he has right to freedom of expression and beliefs as long as it doesn't attack the beliefs of others. But it did in this case. Is he a horrible person for wearing the shirt? No, but he broke the rules none the less.

See where I'm coming from?

[Otter]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 17:55)

QUOTE Please, let me know what I'm missing. In point form if possible. You're getting exhausting. >Your rights are limited as a minor >Your rights are limited as a student at a public school In this case it's being in a school that really matters. Don't get me wrong, I fully support him wearing the shirt, just not to school. He needs to learn some discretion. - the kid was attacking atheists/non Christians - he had no reason to argue the school's decision in the first place - it was weak of character for him to fight his suspension - he has no right to freedom of expression in this case >He was attacking the beliefs of others, which is offensive and not tolerated in the school system. He can wear it wherever else he wants, just not school. >He didn't have a reason to. He was told not to wear on multiple occasions, but did anyways. He broke the rules, he was suspended. What did he expect? >That was far from a major point, I was just pointing out that you had just said people crying to big brother was weak of character, but you support him crying to a lawyer. When in the end, it's the same concept. >In this case, he has right to freedom of expression and beliefs as long as it doesn't attack the beliefs of others. But it did in this case. Is he a horrible person for wearing the shirt? No, but he broke the rules none the less. See where I'm coming from?

Yes, I see were you're coming from. You're obviously under the impression that your opinion of what is and isn't allowed in a Canadian school trumps the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Which again, I'll tell you, is wrong.

Asking the administration to censor someone and crying out to argue that you have been illegally removed from school against your rights as a Canadian citizen is not a valid comparison. I think that should be obvious.

Perhaps we've cleared this up, now? The kid's rights were circumvented but after a quick legal battle everything has been set right and the rest of the school can go back to making fun of him. Right?

[Mr.c TO the J]

QUOTE (bud23 @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 16:22)

First-Grader Suspended for Singing ‘I’m Sexy and I Know It’ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012...-and-i-know-it/ what´s next?

That made me laugh to no end, thanks for posting that bud.

I still see where the school was coming from though, covering there asses, because if it's anything like down here up there, the kids of other non religious or other religion families will go home, go "Such and such was wearing a shirt with Jesus" and then the parents get all in a hoopla over it. So the school was right to cover their asses.

More power to the kid for wearing the shirt, and more power to him for wearing it back, even if he is suspended again. Though like leik oh em jeez! his rights as a student of that school are limited, not only that but as a minor, he's going there and if they say turn it inside out or something he needs to. Hell it's less ludicrous than when a friend of mine wore a shirt that said "Show 'Em Your Bird" and had a picture of a '74 Trans-Am on it, and the school made him go home and change.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (Otter @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 21:05)

Yes, I see were you're coming from. You're obviously under the impression that your opinion of what is and isn't allowed in a Canadian school trumps the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Which again, I'll tell you, is wrong. Asking the administration to censor someone and crying out to argue that you have been illegally removed from school against your rights as a Canadian citizen is not a valid comparison. I think that should be obvious. Perhaps we've cleared this up, now? The kid's rights were circumvented but after a quick legal battle everything has been set right and the rest of the school can go back to making fun of him. Right?

So what you're telling me is that under freedom of expression, a student has every right to blurt out all the answers to a test while it's being taken in a classroom, and then sue the school if any disciplinary action is taken?

[trip]

What are the chances of you guys putting down the energy drinks and switching to a nice soothing beer?

This entire story was unnecessary to begin with, and it even had a quick acceptable resolution. Although the resolution is just going to spur a wave of "look at me I'm funny" kids wearing all sorts of shirts with slogans on them in the coming weeks.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 21:10)

What are the chances of you guys putting down the energy drinks and switching to a nice soothing beer?

Not very good. The last three times I drank beer bodily fluids exited my body through my face. I don't even like beer, I'm not putting myself through that again. I'd love some vodka though.

[Otter]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 18:08)

So what you're telling me is that under freedom of expression, a student has every right to blurt out all the answers to a test while it's being taken in a classroom, and then sue the school if any disciplinary action is taken?

You're mistaking a petulant child being overtly disruptive with a kid making a passive statement on a T-shirt.

@trip - I'm already three deep, and perhaps that's the problem.


Wait, did someone say vodka? Bring on the brass monkey!

[meta187]

Looking at this objectively, you could come up with a similar scenario wherein this entire class and staff at this school were hardcore against listening to Nickleback, as any reasonable sort would be and for some ungodly reason a kid walks in wearing a shirt that reads:

FRONT: Nickleback is #1 / BACK: Listening to anything else is a waste of time.

Sadly, that kid would be well within his rights to wear the offensive T-shirt until the end of the school day until he could be drug out into the street and shot properly after the final bell rang.

The moral? Friends don't let friends, Nickleback.

[Icarus]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 20:08)

So what you're telling me is that under freedom of expression, a student has every right to blurt out all the answers to a test while it's being taken in a classroom, and then sue the school if any disciplinary action is taken?

That's where the reasonable limits clause of the Charter comes into play.

Also, I'm not sure if I fully understand your point when you say your rights as a minor are limited, but at least in Canada, the Charter applies to every single person that is on Canadian soil, be they a minute old or 100 years old. Even minors have freedom of speech, but even then, it is subjected to reasonable limits (just like for adults).

This post has been edited by Icarus on Sunday, May 6 2012, 04:31

[methods]

What a load of sh*t. If someone wore a shirt with an upside down cross on it people would be calling for blood.

[GTA_stu]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 02:16)

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 21:10) What are the chances of you guys putting down the energy drinks and switching to a nice soothing beer? Not very good. The last three times I drank beer bodily fluids exited my body through my face. I don't even like beer, I'm not putting myself through that again. I'd love some vodka though.

I used to hate beer, I thought it tasted like piss and I could barely take a sip. But after a lot of ridicule and harassment from friends, I learned to man up and stop being such a pussy. You just have to keep drinking it even if you don't like it, and eventually you will train yourself to like it. Drinking beer, it's kinda like Stockholm syndrome. Eventually you will come to love your tormentor and abuser and realise that it has your best interests at heart.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 23:57)

I used to hate beer, I thought it tasted like piss and I could barely take a sip. But after a lot of ridicule and harassment from friends, I learned to man up and stop being such a pussy. You just have to keep drinking it even if you don't like it, and eventually you will train yourself to like it. Drinking beer, it's kinda like Stockholm syndrome. Eventually you will come to love your tormentor and abuser and realise that it has your best interests at heart.

Yeah, no. I'm not going to torture myself into being able to tolerate drinking something I hate anyways. I don't mind hating it, so I see no reason to change that. My hatred of beer prevents me from drinking too often, and prevents me from becoming an alcoholic, and saves me money. So it actually serves to help me. I'd have to be an idiot to change that.

Heads up: Not giving in to peer pressure will earn you major respect from damn near everyone in the long run.

[Girish]

QUOTE (Otter @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 03:35)

QUOTE (Girish @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 10:57) So, you're disagreeing with me by making the same point that I was trying to make? o_O If not, please explain to me where in your post have you provided proof that freedom of expression truly and justifiably exists in our real world. QUOTE (Otter @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 22:02) QUOTE (Girish @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 02:05) <snip> So, you're basically saying, 'go with the grain for fear of bodily harm'. That's exactly what I'm saying. If you're not prepared to handle the repercussions of your actions (which may or may not be justifiable) then you shouldn't be acting that way in the first place. Then, I reiterate, it's a cowardly position to take and weakens us all when someone caves. If you don't stand up for what you believe in, you deserve to have your rights stripped away.

Well, I guess I'll just wait for you to get off the internetz then and start changing the world.

Don't keep me waiting too long.

[Otter]

QUOTE (Girish @ Saturday, May 5 2012, 21:37)

Don't keep me waiting too long.

I change the world every day if I get the chance. You do too, if we're to take your "refusing to step into a temple" story at face value. So don't try too hard to belittle me, we're on the same side.