[trip]

QUOTE (Icarus @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 23:35)

Mr. Noodles. They're like 60 cents per pack.

Sounds like Ramen noodles. sh*t, I think those f*ckers are still like 25 cents a pack. Might be the same as 60 Canadian


I don't want to piss anyone off, or make any enemies, but obesity is a personal choice and there is no excuse.

[Icarus]

QUOTE (trip @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 21:39)

QUOTE (Icarus @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 23:35) Mr. Noodles. They're like 60 cents per pack. Sounds like Ramen noodles. sh*t, I think those f*ckers are still like 25 cents a pack. Might be the same as 60 Canadian

Yeah, they're the same thing. I remember as a kid I used to eat them quite a bit when my grandparents weren't home and I had to cook something (back when I didn't like to cook).

[GTA_stu]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 03:07)

But the point still remains that they have a tradition of eating food which is of pretty much the same caloric content of a McDonald's meal, if not more, and they are one of the healthiest countries in the world.

Calories alone is a poor way of judging the healthiness of a particular food. Calories just measures the amount of energy, it doesn't take into account for fat, trans fats, carbohydrates, protein etc. If you eat a meal of 500 calories it can be healthy or unhealthy. E.g. carbohydrates contain a relatively large amount of calories, but don't necessarily contain a lot of fat. An average apple contains about 50 calories, lets say you eat 20 then that's 1000 calories. But they have virtually no fat. See my point? A typical French meal will be healthier and contain less fat on average than a typical American meal. Lifestyle does come into it as well, but don't underestimate how crucial the actual food is.

[Irviding]

Fast food is cheaper than home cooked meals in America. As Icarus said, up there they don't have a dollar menu. In the poorer states of the US, you can feed a family of four with 6-8 dollars on McDonald's. It's that simple. So no, it is cheaper than a home cooked meal. It is a well established fact that poverty contributes to obesity in this way.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/health/high-...sity/index.html
http://frac.org/initiatives/hunger-and-obesity/
http://news.change.org/stories/the-still-m...sity-connection

QUOTE

Calories alone is a poor way of judging the healthiness of a particular food. Calories just measures the amount of energy, it doesn't take into account for fat, trans fats, carbohydrates, protein etc. If you eat a meal of 500 calories it can be healthy or unhealthy. E.g. carbohydrates contain a relatively large amount of calories, but don't necessarily contain a lot of fat. An average apple contains about 50 calories, lets say you eat 20 then that's 1000 calories. But they have virtually no fat. See my point? A typical French meal will be healthier and contain less fat on average than a typical American meal. Lifestyle does come into it as well, but don't underestimate how crucial the actual food is.

Probably not. French food is actually very high in fat, thus also high in calories as fat is 9 cals/g and carbs/proteins are only 4 cals/g. BUT - French people do not consume their whole plate and do not eat like disgusting pigs like we do in the US. Further, they don't eat very energy dense food to make meals stretch like poor American families have to do. I don't see your point because fat doesn't mean inherently unhealthy. Getting fat is solely based on daily calories. It has little to nothing to do with how many actual grams of fat you eat that day. French food is high in fat but ultimately they consume lower calories at the end of the day. To back up what I'm saying, you can do a reading on the nutrition professor who purposely gained to about 275 lbs and then ate only twinkies every day at 1400 calories and he lost weight back down to where he was originally. It's all about the calories at the end of the day, which Americans consume more of.

This post has been edited by Irviding on Friday, May 4 2012, 04:17

[Cuban Warlord]

I don't think all of the problem is necessarily in the the type of food you eat or how much you eat. Our culture has become lazy and now days you don't see as many kids outside exercising or adults for that matter. As a society we'd rather sit inside and play video games, watch TV, talk on the phone, or sit on our computer. If we exercised more than what we do we wouldn't have as a big of a problem.

[Jake]

QUOTE (trip @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 19:39)

I don't want to piss anyone off, or make any enemies, but obesity is a personal choice and there is no excuse.

Indeed.

Saying families go to McDonalds because they can't afford anything better is ludicrous sir. And people buying frozen, pre packaged food is also ridiculous. It is always cheaper to buy fresh and make it yourself. Some of these options aren't so unhealthy, but of course they're still more expensive than fresh. I'm a chef for a living so I know more than some others how difficult it is to think about preparing your own meals and whatnot. It takes even more energy for me and other chefs/cooks to cook our own food since we do it all day for cash money. But in the end it really is worth it.

Quit buying doughnuts and fast food. Buy some fresh/frozen/and/or organic meat, poultry, fish, and veggies, starches, whatever you want. Learn some recipes. Do some exercise. Burn the sh*t off. Last year I weighed in a whopping 270 pounds. I'm now 195. I lost 75 pounds and I've kept it off. Because I was tired of being lazy. I'm starting to put on muscle mass now and get rid of extra fat. So not all Americans are obese. I don't understand how some people simply let themselves go that far. I can't believe I let myself go to 270 pounds. Most I've ever weighed, but I was also in a bad place in my life. Some people just need to pull out of that mess they're in. And I know how hard it is.

There's nothing wrong with playing video games, sitting on the PC, etc as long you take care of yourself in the mean time. It will just cut down your time doing those things by a fraction per day.

Our country suffers from so much diabetes and obesity related diseases it's just crazy. Watch the Biggest Loser or whatever you have to do to get yourself motivated. Get off the Domino's delivery app, make some nice home cooked meals, and exercise.

[Irviding]

QUOTE

Saying families go to McDonalds because they can't afford anything better is ludicrous sir. And people buying frozen, pre packaged food is also ridiculous. It is always cheaper to buy fresh and make it yourself. Some of these options aren't so unhealthy, but of course they're still more expensive than fresh. I'm a chef for a living so I know more than some others how difficult it is to think about preparing your own meals and whatnot. It takes even more energy for me and other chefs/cooks to cook our own food since we do it all day for cash money. But in the end it really is worth it.

How about you read the f*cking articles instead of spewing bullsh*t?

QUOTE

hile all segments of the population are affected, low-income and food insecure people are especially vulnerable due to the additional risk factors associated with poverty, including limited resources, limited access to healthy and affordable foods, and limited opportunities for physical activity.  Even individuals who are highly motivated can have difficulty eating healthy and being active if their environments do not support or allow such behaviors (Institute of Medicine, 2009).

QUOTE

In addition, households with limited resources to buy enough food often try to stretch their food budgets by purchasing cheap, energy-dense foods that are filling – meaning that they try to maximize their calories per dollar in order to stave off hunger.

McDonalds will keep one fuller longer than homecooked vegetables. That's something you, Mr. Chef extraordinaire, ought to know. I personal train part time and i know that for Christ's sake.

Further -

QUOTE

It's not their fault that they'd be inclined to get the best bang for their buck, calorie-wise; that Snickers bar is going to stave off hunger for longer than a banana will. And it's certainly not their fault that low wages mean many of them have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet, leaving little time to eat anything more involved than a fast-food hamburger even if they can afford something else.

QUOTE

t's absolutely true that those in poverty eat a less healthy diet than middle- or upper-class people. It's also true that they are often "food insecure," a government term that means they don't always know if they can afford dinner that evening. When someone is hungry -- not "it's 4 p.m. and I'm craving Cheetos," but truly hungry -- he or she is going to eat whatever is cheap and readily accessible. It's not the poor's fault that poor neighborhoods have drastic shortages of full grocery stores and sit-down restaurants, leaving them the choice between fast food and the packaged options at the corner store.

QUOTE

That's not because all poor people are lazy or because they're living like kings off their food stamps. It's simply because they don't have the option of eating healthy food.

This post has been edited by Irviding on Friday, May 4 2012, 04:26

[finn4life]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:33)

A big problem is poverty. A lot of people ask, oh yeah if that family is so poor why are they all so fat? The answer is the food they eat. In Mississippi for example, the poorest (and most conservative, no correlation though right guys) and fattest state we have, families can't get by and instead they eat McDonald's all the time. I just really think if we worked on fighting poverty obesity would come down.

Good food is more expensive and takes longer to prepare, the processed microwave sh*t is cheaper and takes less time.

People who are poor will often have larger families and work longer hours, obviously most poor will go for the cheap easy processed sh*t like irviding said with mcdonalds, which could be wrong because it is expensive (in Australia anyway ) but I get what you mean.

In the end is a personal choice though.

This post has been edited by finn4life on Friday, May 4 2012, 04:34

[lil weasel]

Again, this 'science' of healthy foods is ruled by the money that hires the scientists to come up with findings that suit those required by the money source.
McDonald's (and it’s kin) is too expensive for 'poor' people. 4$US to 15$US per person per meal is simply too much to spend on food.
When at WalMart you can get a decent meal for less than a US Dollar.
‘Real’ Restaurants either don’t put any food on the plate or Too Much either way again you’re expected to pay 8$US to 20$US and a 20% Tip. (Those of you who go to ‘proper’ restaurants check that bill, as some have already included the tip in the bill. It’s in the 6 point Agate at the bottom.)

[Irviding]

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 23:54)

Again, this 'science' of healthy foods is ruled by the money that hires the scientists to come up with findings that suit those required by the money source. McDonald's (and it’s kin) is too expensive for 'poor' people. 4$US to 15$US per person per meal is simply too much to spend on food. When at WalMart you can get a decent meal for less than a US Dollar. ‘Real’ Restaurants either don’t put any food on the plate or Too Much either way again you’re expected to pay 8$US to 20$US and a 20% Tip. (Those of you who go to ‘proper’ restaurants check that bill, as some have already included the tip in the bill. It’s in the 6 point Agate at the bottom.)

Do you know what the dollar or kids menu is?

[Pagelzilla]

^ This.

You can get a double cheeseburger and fries for $2.00 plus tax. And you can was it all down with a 2 liter soda for less than a dollar as well! It's sad

[Radoonhagaydoon]

Mr. Noodles >>>>>>>>>>>>

[Lithium]

There is 3 things that come mind for me when I think of people being obese. Lazyness, some genetics, and lack of finances.

I know when I go for groceries it doesn't take long to spend $100 on healthy food (ie, egg whites, lean meats, veggies, nuts, etc..), and it's very frustrating. When I want to follow a strict meal plan, it can cost me anywhere from $60-$80 a week to eat extremely healthy. I do without other things that I want to be able to do this, so ultimately it's a choice people need to make.

Also, I've argued the point before that just because someone is fat, it doesn't mean that they aren't active. Yes I'm fat, but it doesn't mean that I don't implement all of these things that lead to living a healthy lifestyle. Sure I sway from time to time and eat sh*t, but I also train (lift weights, cardio, go for walks with the gf), over 10 hours a week. So yes you do have some control over it, but it may not always be the case.


Just my two cents!

[trip]

QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:22)

There is 3 1 things that come mind for me when I think of people being obese. Lazyness, some genetics, and lack of finances.

fixed.

This post has been edited by trip on Friday, May 4 2012, 16:30

[boxmonster]

...Or we could just eat less... Right?

[Lithium]

QUOTE (trip @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:27)

QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:22) There is 3 1 things that come mind for me when I think of people being obese. Lazyness, some genetics, and lack of finances. fixed.

I know genetics have something to do with it trip. You may not be a string bean if people in your family weren't all small. I know it's not all about that, but it plays a part for sure!

[SagaciousKJB]

I think there is a huge myriad of reasons people eat too much, and eat unhealthy in this nation, but I think most of it has to do with culture shock. I don't believe that the ability to over-eat at such a low cost, and at such convenience as ever really been available to the American public, and so I don't think it's all that strange that we've gotten the reaction to it we have. Food has become kind of a entertainment commodity... There's whole industries based on dining out, indulgence eating, comfort eating, etc.

I mean, fast food and supermarkets aren't that new of a thing, but really they've only been around for the last two or three generations. The idea of keeping food in the house because you didn't want to have to go out and buy more, and saving it so you didn't run out, was pretty much normal. Eating when you were hungry was when you were supposed to eat. I mean sure I think people still dined out, or ate popcorn at movies, but that was more of an occasional thing whereas now days it is almost seen as a normal thing. I think the reason being is that it's not a big deal to eat a whole bag of potato chips while sitting around and watching movies now, because you can just go out and get another bag tomorrow. I think that as this ability has been here for the last five or so decades, people have slowly been adapting to it and their eating habits have adapted thusly.

So I think that really, the only reason Americans didn't use to over eat was because your burger joints, your 24 hour super markets and the stuff like that which makes food so readily accessible now days are actually relatively new in American culture. The idea of moderating what you ate, not just pigging out use to be just a given thing because you didn't want to run out of food, didn't want to have to go by more, etc. Now days though, getting ahold of more food is much more easy. Delivery food, 24 hour super markets, convenience stores, vending machines, etc. With all this increased availability, I think Americans are pretty much just now days having to really consider not eating too much simply for their health.

I think one thing that would help is if we removed the entertainment aspect around food. If as a society we stopped treating eating as something to do, that would probably benefit us quite a bit. Because now if you try to moderate what you eat, not eat too much, everyone goes, "What, are you on a diet or something?" It shouldn't be abnormal to eat only when you are hungry and only enough to sustain you. It's as if it's seen as normal to just want to pig out and eat as much as possible because it's so much more doable now days, but I think our society really needs to shift of consciousness when it comes to eating. It shouldn't be seen as an entertainment option, a comfort option, etc because the more industries evolve around that, the more people see that as normal and the more it becomes the norm and healthy eating becomes a conscious decision people have to keep up at.

I mean, people like to talk about lifestyles... Well, the lifestyle of only eating when necessary, only as much as you need, etc. while it should be more popular, and should be "the norm", just doesn't really seem to be that appealing to a large portion of Americans.

Edit:

"I don't want to piss anyone off, or make any enemies, but obesity is a personal choice and there is no excuse. "

For the most part I agree, but I don't like it when people spin it into obese people being lazy, or bringing all their problems on themselves. I mean, alcoholics brought their problems on themselves too, but still you're more likely to see someone ask an alcoholic why they won't stop drinking, than ask an obese person why they won't stop over-eating. It's just assumed that they're lazy or something... I think a big mistake is made by a lot to assume that these people are enjoying living like this. I mean sure maybe some are, but I think that over-eating is most of the time a symptom of some other problem, and if more people were to say something like, "What's going on? Why are you eating like this?" versus "You need to stop eating so damn much" it would kind of make a difference. Reason I say this is because I think most people with obesity problems that over-eat do so because of depression and self-image issues, and the last thing you need when you're at a point like that is for a whole segment of society to be talking down at you because you're doing something wrong.

I mean, I do agree with you for the most part, but I think the "tough love" approach is maybe the wrong way. Instead of telling people why they are over-eating, I think people need to start asking why they are over eating. Because I think most people who are harming themselves in this way, if you just go up to them and tell them how wrong it is, how stupid they are for doing it, how lazy they are, etc. That's just going to make them do it that much more. Make them question it, "Why would you do this to yourself?" and maybe they might actually make a change.

This post has been edited by SagaciousKJB on Friday, May 4 2012, 17:11

[trip]

QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:46)

QUOTE (trip @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:27) QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:22) There is 3 1 things that come mind for me when I think of people being obese. Lazyness, some genetics, and lack of finances. fixed. I know genetics have something to do with it trip. You may not be a string bean if people in your family weren't all small. I know it's not all about that, but it plays a part for sure!

I know. I hear you. But I also tend to think those people might use genetics as an excuse. IMO there is a difference between being big, or over weight than being obese. If someone is genetically prone to weight issues there are things they can do other than cruising through walmart on a motorized cart while shoving a big mac down their throat. And are we sure genetics is 100% responsible and some of it isn't a result of being brought up by obese parents with poor eating/exercising habits?

Even as you get older you have the ability to change your body and it's metabolism(to some degree).

Oh oh oh...and you know the excuse "It's glandular"? Guess what...that is treatable too. I know that one fist hand, since my wife just so happens to have a condition that f*cks with the particular gland people like to use as an excuse.

[Lithium]

QUOTE (trip @ Friday, May 4 2012, 13:03)

QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:46) QUOTE (trip @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:27) QUOTE (Lithium @ Friday, May 4 2012, 12:22) There is 3 1 things that come mind for me when I think of people being obese. Lazyness, some genetics, and lack of finances. fixed. I know genetics have something to do with it trip. You may not be a string bean if people in your family weren't all small. I know it's not all about that, but it plays a part for sure! I know. I hear you. But I also tend to think those people might use genetics as an excuse. IMO there is a difference between being big, or over weight than being obese. If someone is genetically prone to weight issues there are things they can do other than cruising through walmart on a motorized cart while shoving a big mac down their throat. And are we sure genetics is 100% responsible and some of it isn't a result of being brought up by obese parents with poor eating/exercising habits? Even as you get older you have the ability to change your body and it's metabolism(to some degree). Oh oh oh...and you know the excuse "It's glandular"? Guess what...that is treatable too. I know that one fist hand, since my wife just so happens to have a condition that f*cks with the particular gland people like to use as an excuse.

I know what ya mean, I don't really have any tolerance for people who cruise around in those scooters when they could be walking.

[Irviding]

Just to add to what I've said already in this topic, it's not just the whole aspect of being poor that leads to obesity. It looks as if I am saying that is the only reason through my fervent defense of that reason. Obviously, for the majority of the population, notwithstanding those who are poor and MUST eat sh*tty food to get by and keep their families nourished, it is laziness. I am a personal trainer and the people I get are some of the fattest, laziest sacks of sh*t you'll ever meet in your life. Sometimes people are so fat, lazy, and unwilling to change their eating habits that I have to gradually bring them to even start using the resistance/weight lifting equipment in the gym simply because they cannot fit on it. Most bodybuilders in general will take one-two cheat meals on the same day, or even make the whole day a cheat day, per week. Some of these people are so accustomed to eating complete garbage that I have to start them by having them eat well only two days a week. That one client is currently on 2 cheat days a week and has lost about 40 lbs, but still, I mean it's ridiculous what people eat and how lazy they are. Some people are actually so unfit cardiovascularally that I can't even have them do anything other than a recumbent bike for 2 months.