[Irviding]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Sunday, Jul 8 2012, 18:16)

North Korea!

The reason they don't have a welfare system is because the country is so prosperous to a point it simply does not require one.

[bobgtafan]

Tell me what you think of my idea for welfare. Let's get rid of all government programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Further get rid of Food Stamps, Public Housing and all government subsides in all industries. All Americans 18 and up or employed would pay a flat income tax of the same level no matter what. To replace it all EVERY American would receive a 1,000 dollar check every month from the government regardless of income, criminal history, race, sex, orientation, weight, nation of origin, disability, etc. Children would receive no checks but instead the Federal Government would pay for 4 years of college for all who wish to attend. What do you all think?

[agent17]

QUOTE (Dimitri. @ Friday, Apr 27 2012, 09:16)

My mother suffers from M.E., Bi Polar and a few mobility problems, so cannot get a job. Have you ever worried about if today is the day you get evicted from your council house for late rent? Have you ever felt that fear of opening the door, in case it's the debt collectors coming to take what measly posessions you have? Or how about having to stay at a relative's house, simply to save paying the electricity bill so you can pay for a close relative's funeral? I doubt it. Without this welfare money, I'd have been in a care home when I was a child, my Dad would have killed himself with drugs, and my Mum would have either killed herself or currently be locked away in an institution.

This sums up my entire entire child/teenhood perfectly, to the point where it scares me.

[Leftcoast]

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Wednesday, Jul 11 2012, 02:47)

Tell me what you think of my idea for welfare. Let's get rid of all government programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Further get rid of Food Stamps, Public Housing and all government subsides in all industries. All Americans 18 and up or employed would pay a flat income tax of the same level no matter what. To replace it all EVERY American would receive a 1,000 dollar check every month from the government regardless of income, criminal history, race, sex, orientation, weight, nation of origin, disability, etc. Children would receive no checks but instead the Federal Government would pay for 4 years of college for all who wish to attend. What do you all think?

I don't like a flat tax for every working American. First off I do believe that the lower end of the income scare need and deserve an income tax break, next would be middle class who I believe need small income tax break, then any one making enough to put themselves above middle class can pay the regular rate. The lower and middle class shouldn't be pressured with the same tax rate as the wealthy, especially the lowest end of the income scale.

I don't see the value in giving money back to every citizen, there is a reason social security was created. I am all for fixing social security, not abolishing it and giving people money every month from 18 and up. The problem is that most people will not think to save that money for retirement, they will use it "here and now" and not later.

[bobgtafan]

QUOTE (Leftcoast @ Wednesday, Jul 11 2012, 14:45)

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Wednesday, Jul 11 2012, 02:47) Tell me what you think of my idea for welfare. Let's get rid of all government programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Further get rid of Food Stamps, Public Housing and all government subsides in all industries. All Americans 18 and up or employed would pay a flat income tax of the same level no matter what. To replace it all EVERY American would receive a 1,000 dollar check every month from the government regardless of income, criminal history, race, sex, orientation, weight, nation of origin, disability, etc. Children would receive no checks but instead the Federal Government would pay for 4 years of college for all who wish to attend. What do you all think? I don't like a flat tax for every working American. First off I do believe that the lower end of the income scare need and deserve an income tax break, next would be middle class who I believe need small income tax break, then any one making enough to put themselves above middle class can pay the regular rate. The lower and middle class shouldn't be pressured with the same tax rate as the wealthy, especially the lowest end of the income scale. I don't see the value in giving money back to every citizen, there is a reason social security was created. I am all for fixing social security, not abolishing it and giving people money every month from 18 and up. The problem is that most people will not think to save that money for retirement, they will use it "here and now" and not later.

Why should the poor and middle class have to have less of a tax burden than the rich? If we're all citizens and all have a stake in our nation we should all pay the same percentage of our wealth towards it. The same goes for welfare. Why are only veterans, the elderly, children and the poor entitled to free health care? Why can't I have free health care? Why should MY taxes me collected to pay for others to have free health care while I have to pay? That's more unfair then those groups not having health care at all.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Monday, Jul 9 2012, 05:33)

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Sunday, Jul 8 2012, 18:57) QUOTE (MIKON8ERISBACK @ Sunday, Jul 8 2012, 11:04) Unemployment insurance and other such handouts should come from the private sector. that would never work. unemployment insurance is not a money-maker. Obviously it's not a money-maker when the government runs it. Someone could come up with a profitable system in which monthly contributions would provide a hedge against some of the financial perils of unemployment. But that's just absurd libertarian bullsh*t, like car insurance. Oh, wait...

But it would be in their interest to pay out as little as possible; as such, the payouts would be highly conditional, and they'd likely cut you off after a point. Why not just keep it as it is?

[Leftcoast]

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Jul 12 2012, 05:45)

Why should the poor and middle class have to have less of a tax burden than the rich? If we're all citizens and all have a stake in our nation we should all pay the same percentage of our wealth towards it. The same goes for welfare. Why are only veterans, the elderly, children and the poor entitled to free health care? Why can't I have free health care? Why should MY taxes me collected to pay for others to have free health care while I have to pay? That's more unfair then those groups not having health care at all.

My reasoning for proposing an income tax break for lower and middle class is to give them more disposable income since they are far more likely to need the extra money. Lower and Middle class families are far more likely to have problems buying food, clothing and other essentials compared to the upper class families. Basically, I prefer a tax plan that helps lower and middle class to be successful in life.

For me as a personal example; I don't consider myself upper class. Since I am single, my family is myself and I currently have a good job. I make pretty good money for a single person so I would be paying the regular tax rate under my plan. Conversely, if I had a wife with 2 kids, one being a new born the wife was taking care of at home I would fall under middle class and qualify for the tax break.

I do agree with you about certain people getting free health care and others not is not entirely fair. I am a firm believer that we do need a better social safety net for healthcare. I still feel that veterans, children, poor and the elderly do deserve a helping hand at healthcare in some form. These types of problems aren't easy ones to solve, I don't have any good plan for fixing this system to make it "fair". At the end of the day, we do need to use some of our tax money for the greater good. As humans, we rely on others from time to time for help and other times we help out. That's how we got this far in society, we are not solitary creatures and cannot survive alone, we must help each other here and there.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Jul 12 2012, 00:45)

QUOTE (Leftcoast @ Wednesday, Jul 11 2012, 14:45) QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Wednesday, Jul 11 2012, 02:47) Tell me what you think of my idea for welfare. Let's get rid of all government programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Further get rid of Food Stamps, Public Housing and all government subsides in all industries. All Americans 18 and up or employed would pay a flat income tax of the same level no matter what. To replace it all EVERY American would receive a 1,000 dollar check every month from the government regardless of income, criminal history, race, sex, orientation, weight, nation of origin, disability, etc. Children would receive no checks but instead the Federal Government would pay for 4 years of college for all who wish to attend. What do you all think? I don't like a flat tax for every working American. First off I do believe that the lower end of the income scare need and deserve an income tax break, next would be middle class who I believe need small income tax break, then any one making enough to put themselves above middle class can pay the regular rate. The lower and middle class shouldn't be pressured with the same tax rate as the wealthy, especially the lowest end of the income scale. I don't see the value in giving money back to every citizen, there is a reason social security was created. I am all for fixing social security, not abolishing it and giving people money every month from 18 and up. The problem is that most people will not think to save that money for retirement, they will use it "here and now" and not later. Why should the poor and middle class have to have less of a tax burden than the rich? If we're all citizens and all have a stake in our nation we should all pay the same percentage of our wealth towards it. The same goes for welfare. Why are only veterans, the elderly, children and the poor entitled to free health care? Why can't I have free health care? Why should MY taxes me collected to pay for others to have free health care while I have to pay? That's more unfair then those groups not having health care at all.

Because it's not fair. It's not the same burden if you have an equal tax percentage and to think so is very simplistic of you. Let's say I make 420,000 a year, and you make 42,000 a year. We both have a flat tax rate of 16%. You pay 6720 to the government each year, which severely dents your income and causes you to have to live in a very weak financial situation. I pay 67200 to the government each year, which is absolutely nothing for me. It hardly makes a difference in my life. Taxes should be fair, i.e. they should hurt everyone close to equally, therefore the only way that works is to take a higher percentage from me and a lower percentage from you. That's not even getting into the economics of why a flat tax wouldn't work, namely it would not nearly cover a third of the current federal budget.

[El Zilcho]

Welfare is a necessity for any civilised nation - while prone to abuse, it is vital for the disabled, the recently redundant, those who must supply for their families in times of need; particularly these demographics are at a disadvantage, frequently through no fault of their own. They must be assisted until they can support themselves (perhaps you'd prefer they starve in the streets?). Acquiring work is even harder under the current economic situation, which may aggrieve the issue of welfare for some, but rather I feel it reiterates it's importance. I'm uncertain why Americans (some, not all, but I'm generalising for ease of argument) are so disgustingly ruthless regarding 'socialist' policies. I wasn't aware the governments role was to exploit the people; many of you are up in arms over reforms and new legislation which will assist the poorer people of your nation; like they are a cancerous lower species who deserve no sympathy because they were unable to keep up the pace on the good ol' American treadmill.

Surprisingly (for some Republicans it may come as a drink spitting revelation), the free market isn't a benevolent demi-god which magically corrects itself and provides the best service through some unseen karma - placing your faith in a system which rewards the rich and slices away at the poor is symptomatic of idiocy regarding politics, something the infantile and uneducated flock to. You needn't be communist to have a fine balance between economic liberty and civic responsibility (*cough* majority of Europe *cough*); welfare is and always will be a must. If you're in the habit of judging a countries glory by GDP rather than quality of living, then I feel sorry for you, and only hope you're never poor enough to need welfare.