[Slamman]

I bought the Lennon Best Of cassette after I heard Jealous Guy from the Black Crowes, and both versions are far and above most songs recorded today, and that's why I have the respect for him more so then in my youth, his songs still resonate, and I think there is honesty and artistry there, it's never music for commercialism sake.
I am not even a real Beatles fan, but I think there's almost a backlash against the popular stigma that they have, over Led Zeppelin or The Stones, even the Who, The Who I like much more then the Beatles, and even the Eagles, who I always promote in some way, since who knows if they'll ever continue to tour.

I say if the live show comes around, you should get down and see it, before it never happens again

This post has been edited by Slamman on Thursday, Apr 12 2012, 18:43

[El_Diablo]

don't get me wrong.
I have nothing but respect for Lennon.

but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal.
I think he's overrated in pop culture but that doesn't mean I think he was irrelevant.

[ILIKEFIREPLACES]

In my opinion, No he is not Overrated at all musically.

You can look at any great musicians in modern history and suggest they are overrated; Elvis, Johnny Cash, Eric Clapton, Michael Jackson and etc.

They all deserve the honours and recognition they get for being So well received by so many people for different generations and influencing thousands of other artists, Every Rock band of the last 50 years has been influenced by The Beatles in some shape or form whether that be the Song writing or recording techniques and John Lennon was a huge part of that.

About his personal life I honestly don't care about a Musician or Actors home life should effect their work.

[Slamman]

Suffice to say, he's more overrated not because of anything he did, but the adoring public throngs

[JOSEPH X]

For those who don't appreciate Lennon - or even Lennon/McCartney - I'll leave this here for your musical educationment.

[trip]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Apr 13 2012, 00:15)

but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal.

All of the game changers are put on super high pedestals. And there is no denying that he was part of a game changing band. He also wrote some great lyrics that the world needed at the time - he earned his spot high atop his pedestal.

[Typhus]

Musically, he was very accomplished and deserves a lot of praise.
But as a human being he was morally reprehensible and a fascist. So I can't enjoy his music because I can't seperate the man from his offensive, disgusting political and social views.

[Craig]

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 18:16)

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Apr 13 2012, 00:15) but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal. All of the game changers are put on super high pedestals. And there is no denying that he was part of a game changing band. He also wrote some great lyrics that the world needed at the time - he earned his spot high atop his pedestal.

I agree. Whatever your opinion on Lennon, The Beatles or any other pivotal figures in music at the time, they gave the world something they could latch onto, run with and live by. They have resonance now because of their legacy. I don't quite know how a legacy is formed or how it is perpetuated but I doubt we'll see something remotely similar by any of today's music contenders.

Besides, I'm more of a Harrison man.

[darthYENIK]

QUOTE (Mr White0161 @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 15:49)

I agree that he is overrated. Personally I hate John Lennon and the Beatles. I think the music that was produced by Lennon and the Beatles was crap. I know many will argue that with me but I also know many agree with me. Quite frankly I think he should have died 20yrs before he did but that's just me...

Actually, not many people agree with you. As far as I can tell, the Beatles are probably the most well loved band to have ever existed. I hear people hate on every other band under the sun, and I'm talking about in real life, not the internet (AKA the lightning rod for sh*t talk), and young, old, the heaviest metal heads, the biggest pop fans, all of them love the Beatles, in one way or another. Then there are the people that are indifferent, which is an okay chunk But then, there is a very small amount of people that actually hate them. Usually because other people like them. Which lends to the overrated-ness.

Not saying you shouldn't hate them. That's your opinion. Just that you're in a pretty small minority.

[Algonquin Bridge]

As a musician? No, not really. He produced a lot of great stuff. Even though in the Lennon-McCartney partnership, I always leaned more for McCartney's work (for example, I think Hello Goodbye is the much better single than I Am The Walrus).

As a person...probably. Even though he's often portrayed as "St. John of Peace", he was...well, prone to being a massive dick.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 10:16)

All of the game changers are put on super high pedestals. And there is no denying that he was part of a game changing band.

I have no problem with the Beatles spot atop the podium; the Beatles, as a group, as a collective.

but not John Lennon on his own merit.

[Slamman]

It's the fact he died violently as he did, when he strove for PEACE, it moved people tremendously. He wasn't all that arrogant, as I see it

[ILIKEFIREPLACES]

QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 23:30)

He wasn't all that arrogant, as I see it

He is one of the few people in the world that was allowed to be arrogant, for example Michael Jordan is allowed to be arrogant about Basketball.

[Typhus]

QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 23:30)

It's the fact he died violently as he did, when he strove for PEACE, it moved people tremendously. He wasn't all that arrogant, as I see it

He was a dogmatic fascist who believed in removing religion and notions of nationality. And his idea of 'peace' was, in fact, submission to Communists and other collectivists like himself.
Like all Utopians, he didn't give a damn about your rights or opinions. What about your right to practice your religion? What about your right to be proud of your country? Did St. John respect that? I doubt it.
But there he was, playing the peace activist whilst hoping for the furtherance of the brutal Soviet dictatorship. He was a charlatan and a demagogue and he gets no respect from me.

[ShaneHunter]

typhus you are an idiot, Lennon didn't like religion and his reason was simple: religion caused and still causes war as well as being about money. In Imagine he was trying to show us verbally what a world without religion(therefore war) and greed(therefore hunger) would be like. He did not lean towards communism you idiot, he had claimed on many occasions that he disliked what communist countries were doing. Watch his Dick Cavett interview and research some more before you open your mouth with false claims. And even if he did support communism(which he did not) what is your problem with communism?? The problem with communism/socialism is that all of the leaders so far have been greedy and corrupt (save Castro who did his best given the situation.) You have much to learn typhus.

Anyway moving on i urge everyone to watch the vids JOSEPH X has provided us, The Beatles is my favorite band of all time and the vids got me to appreciate them even more.

This post has been edited by ShaneHunter on Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:03

[Slamman]

I laugh at the idea he was fascist.
I read more about the Pink Floyd members, of their families beliefs and how it impacted their art. Overall, we're all humans though, no one has the one true answer, just pearls of wisdom

[Darkshade12]

QUOTE (mikkenugent @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 19:18)

IMHO very much yes. Not that he wasn't a good musician but he wasn't what everyone claims he was. In a way Hendrix and Cobain suffer from the same hype. The lives they lived and the way they made it to prominence seems to outshine their actual music. I dig Led Zep but not because they wrote great songs like everyone one says, but because they stole great songs! Its a taste thing and don't be pressured into liking someone because its in vogue, in fact I've been in the same type of debates as u with friends.

I think less in the case of Hendrix, He DID actualy have a major influence on guitar music and was doing some things that were never done back then. I agree about Kurt Cobain though, I wouldn't call him a brilliant musician at all but it would be wrong to say that he didn't have some sort of influence on people. But Hendrix really did make a difference to modern music.

One thing related to the Beatles though, i disagree completely with the view of Paul McCartney being the best bass player of all time. I mean from a technical standpoint there are some many bass players that can do so much more with the intrument, Billy Sheehan being my favourite personally. I do agree that Paul was a very good song writer though, but to call him the best bassist really does make me annoyed.

This post has been edited by Darkshade12 on Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 20:24

[Typhus]

QUOTE (ShaneHunter @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:00)

typhus you are an idiot, Lennon didn't like religion and his reason was simple: religion caused and still causes war as well as being about money. In Imagine he was trying to show us verbally what a world without religion(therefore war) and greed(therefore hunger) would be like. He did not lean towards communism you idiot, he had claimed on many occasions that he disliked what communist countries were doing. Watch his Dick Cavett interview and research some more before you open your mouth with false claims. And even if he did support communism(which he did not) what is your problem with communism?? The problem with communism/socialism is that all of the leaders so far have been greedy and corrupt (save Castro who did his best given the situation.) You have much to learn typhus.

Idiot, idiot, idiot, how I love to be called an idiot.
Listen, John Lennon's social views were the antithesis of what makes good art. Have you ever created anything? A song, a poem, a story? Anything like that? All art, all great art, springs from pain and anger and hatred. Ugliness gives birth to beauty. War and corruption are the greatest friends an artist can have. They can turn a little painting into a stunning social satire, they can transform an idealistic ditty into an anthem.
John Lennon wanted to remove this motivation, like all Utopians, he wanted fairness, he wanted peace. Peace! Can you imagine a more stunted, grey world than one at peace?

Every time a singer or any other artist drones on about somehow ridding the world of all the 'bad' ideas, they are unwittingly wishing death upon their own creativity.

True liberalism is expressed in appreciating the world for what it is, loving the world even in its ugliest moments. Show me a man who wants to change the world and I'll show you a man who holds the will of the individual in scant regard.

Lenon was a fascist, in spirit at least. Because his protestations for peace were, in actual fact, an attempt to control the will of others and an attempt to coerce his fans into embracing his Utopian world view. And only an idiot would be suckered in by such an obvious huckster and charlatan.

[jackass2009]

As a musician, he's okay. Outside of what everybody knows him for, I could care less. Eh. The Beatles are better as a whole, not when you try to scrutinize each individual member.

[ShaneHunter]

QUOTE (Typhus @ Wednesday, Apr 18 2012, 19:39)

QUOTE (ShaneHunter @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:00) typhus you are an idiot, Lennon didn't like religion and his reason was simple: religion caused and still causes war as well as being about money. In Imagine he was trying to show us verbally what a world without religion(therefore war) and greed(therefore hunger) would be like. He did not lean towards communism you idiot, he had claimed on many occasions that he disliked what communist countries were doing. Watch his Dick Cavett interview and research some more before you open your mouth with false claims. And even if he did support communism(which he did not) what is your problem with communism?? The problem with communism/socialism is that all of the leaders so far have been greedy and corrupt (save Castro who did his best given the situation.) You have much to learn typhus. Idiot, idiot, idiot, how I love to be called an idiot. Listen, John Lennon's social views were the antithesis of what makes good art. Have you ever created anything? A song, a poem, a story? Anything like that? All art, all great art, springs from pain and anger and hatred. Ugliness gives birth to beauty. War and corruption are the greatest friends an artist can have. They can turn a little painting into a stunning social satire, they can transform an idealistic ditty into an anthem. John Lennon wanted to remove this motivation, like all Utopians, he wanted fairness, he wanted peace. Peace! Can you imagine a more stunted, grey world than one at peace? Every time a singer or any other artist drones on about somehow ridding the world of all the 'bad' ideas, they are unwittingly wishing death upon their own creativity. True liberalism is expressed in appreciating the world for what it is, loving the world even in its ugliest moments. Show me a man who wants to change the world and I'll show you a man who holds the will of the individual in scant regard. Lenon was a fascist, in spirit at least. Because his protestations for peace were, in actual fact, an attempt to control the will of others and an attempt to coerce his fans into embracing his Utopian world view. And only an idiot would be suckered in by such an obvious huckster and charlatan.

What you stated about artists is true but it doesn't matter because his utopia was something that any decent human would want, world peace and equality. Who gives a damn about artists continuing to create art if we can have peace and equality, you are quite the fascist yourself typhus.

You sound like you'd prefer a world where greed and war rules to that of one where peace, equality and love rules. There is something wrong with your philosophy there Typhus. Everything about you is off except for your views on art and The Dark Knight.