[Wolf68k]

My bad. I didn't notice the +12V rails before. Sorry. But still I think they are jacking up the price because of some douche bag

I also meant to say "Without" not "With". Oh well.

[Stinky12]

I still have that anti-static wrist strap during my noob days. It cost me 10 bucks and boy did I feel like a pro just wearing it.
Then I've immediately notice the annoyance of that strap constantly bothering me as I try to build a god damn computer.
To discharge ESD, all you have to do is touch a metal part of your computer case, before handling any of the components.
Also building a computer wearing socks on carpet is not a good idea.

[les]

QUOTE (Stinky12 @ Saturday, Apr 7 2012, 03:08)

I still have that anti-static wrist strap during my noob days. It cost me 10 bucks and boy did I feel like a pro just wearing it. Then I've immediately notice the annoyance of that strap constantly bothering me as I try to build a god damn computer. To discharge ESD, all you have to do is touch a metal part of your computer case, before handling any of the components. Also building a computer wearing socks on carpet is not a good idea.

Yeah, I agree. I've never used a wrist strap unless I was forced to by school, I'd just make a habit of frequently grounding myself on the chassis. Funny thing though, I'm getting more cautious the older I get (and the longer I've been away from building); I figured I might as well go ahead and buy the damned thing, I'll only have to wear it for a few minutes and it buys a small piece of mind.


Wolf - I completely agree, I hate that I ended up with something so blatantly gamer-branded. I just couldn't pass up the deal; the specs on that fatality PSU were better than those of the one that I had in my cart at the time, and that was considerably more expensive.

[Slamman]

Our old friend PCguytech, at least I assume it's him, linked to a YouYube video about some older SERVER servicing SSDs from Crucial that all failed, they were looking at why that might have happened, but it's possible that age will factor in, so of course, any new ones on the market should be improved. The life expectancy mentioned was just over 2 years in constant use, if that's normal or not, it's still rather disappointing, At the time they documented their cost for large capacity, it was nearly $900 per drive!! No wonder I would be only dreaming about owning them then, like HDDs of old, as you mentioned, still not really a dollar a gig there, but I do believe since the Industry is pushing the use, prices are coming down, the more they get used, and demand is there, the less costly they are to make, and we share in that with lower cost to consumers.

My MicroCenter locale is in St Louis Park, MN, directly off HWY 100, can't miss it!! haha

This post has been edited by Slamman on Saturday, Apr 7 2012, 13:01

[Wolf68k]

Everyone else correct me if I'm wrong here.....

@Slamman
There is hardly anything in that reply that is remotely useful to the topic.
"...linked to a youtube video...." which you can't take the time to give the link so we know what you're talking about
"...some older server servicing SSDs from Crucial...." what the heck does that even mean?
"...life expectancy mentioned was just 2 years in constant use..." well what is constant use in that context? Was it constantly being written to never stopping or was it used as "normal" (whatever that might be) and it just failed? There is a huge difference.
"...there cost for a large capacity...nearly $900 per drive..." Well when dealing with SSD large capacity doesn't mean the same as it does to HDD. Some might call a 128GB large and I'm sure at one time those did cost $900 where as today you can pick one up for $130. But at the same time I can remember when a 128GB HDD use to cost around $900. However since there is no time and size reference there is little to be impressed about in that statement. Today a 512GB SSD would definitely qualify has a large capacity drive and can be had for nearly $900.

As for the drive failing in general after only 2 years, yes early products dealing with new technology will be more likely to fail. However since you offer no context of time, age, size, and actual use, everything you said is completely useless and unimpressive.

[finn4life]

QUOTE (les @ Saturday, Apr 7 2012, 23:12)

QUOTE (Stinky12 @ Saturday, Apr 7 2012, 03:08) I still have that anti-static wrist strap during my noob days. It cost me 10 bucks and boy did I feel like a pro just wearing it. Then I've immediately notice the annoyance of that strap constantly bothering me as I try to build a god damn computer. To discharge ESD, all you have to do is touch a metal part of your computer case, before handling any of the components. Also building a computer wearing socks on carpet is not a good idea. Yeah, I agree. I've never used a wrist strap unless I was forced to by school, I'd just make a habit of frequently grounding myself on the chassis. Funny thing though, I'm getting more cautious the older I get (and the longer I've been away from building); I figured I might as well go ahead and buy the damned thing, I'll only have to wear it for a few minutes and it buys a small piece of mind. Wolf - I completely agree, I hate that I ended up with something so blatantly gamer-branded. I just couldn't pass up the deal; the specs on that fatality PSU were better than those of the one that I had in my cart at the time, and that was considerably more expensive.

Just use the strap since you have it, can be slightly inconvenient, and personally i have not had issues with static building pc's, just do it on a wooden floor or tiles or something and a wooden table and ground yourself, but like i said, if you have the strap, better safe than sorry right?

[Slamman]

Hey, I'm the guy who puts CPUs in without any thermal paste, now granted, not in every case, like my Core2quad I want to be safely using, Things are safer then they may appear!

I've never worn a grounding strap, why pay money when you can touch the case of the computer, surely it's not that far away?!? Anywho, never killed any component in all the ones I've touched, Two things that did happen was firing up a mobo with memory not fully inserted, it died. AND was replaced with same via eBay! haha
The other was power cords from the PSU falling on an unprotected LGA socket, the pins were damaged so the board was again totally trashed! That's pretty bad!

[Wolf68k]

Why has this topic be derailed by the wrist strap?
If he wants to get a wrist strap to ground himself then by all means do it. Everyone lives in a different climate. Just because "you" might not need it or use it because of one reason or another doesn't mean he doesn't need it.
Growing up with Apple ][ days my dad drilled into my head to first touch the desk and then to hold onto the PSU within the case much as I can to stay grounded while working inside the case. And back then I did and was glad because there was a few times I'd touch the desk and get a nice little zap.
Today I don't do that any more and my reasons don't mean a bloody thing to anyone but myself. If someone wants to know feel free to ask, in pm, and I'll tell you. Other wise what does it matter.

I've been in the back at my local MicroCenter to get a CPU tested and even though they are linoleum and wearing rubber soled shoes AND it was summer, they were still required to wear a wrist strap. Over kill? Yes maybe. Save their ass legally? Absolutely.


Now can we please move on to be back on topic, or should I just lock this?

[Slamman]

When I see you mentioning APPLE ][ with the brackets, I somehow think it's referencing me, I don't think too many here actually owned an Apple, but that's cool! I can't recall how long ago the grounding thing was something I learned, it had to be some time ago. I've shown some videos where I layout a PC setup completely outside of a case, for YouTube, running with mix-matched components, and of course, I'm thinking about what to lay my mobo and drives on, things like the PSU's cables and IDE or SATA cables drag the mobo loose in all manner of directions, so there's a balancing act at play! haha
Anyway, just further aside.

The SSD life span speculated at under 3 years bothers me, I had read 5 years for mechanical drives, but have seen them lasting twice that

[les]

I spent the evening tonight building my PC, overall it went very smoothly. I installed windows 7 (holy crap that went fast! SSD cooks!), and as soon as I got to the desktop I shut it off; tomorrow I'll install drivers, applications, do cable management, run some testing and move it to my desk. I have a few small complaints/issues:

• My PSU comes with flat cables which are supposed to help with cable management, but they end up hindering it as they are very ridged and a little bulky. Also the 4 pin ATX is about 1" too short to run behind the motherboard tray, which pisses me off to no end.

• I should have gotten a 5.25" card reader, as my tower only accepts (external) 3.5" drives mounted in the 5.25" bay via a set of extension rails; of course those rails are designed to fit a floppy drive, so it seems that I'm out of luck for now. I might so a bit of modding tomorrow or i might just return it, I haven't decided.

• My screwdriver isn't magnetic, which ended up pissing me off so many f*cking times tonight.

• One, almost catastrophic, issue was with the MOSFET heatsink. By design it attaches to the motherboard via two spring loaded pegs which deliver pressure and ensure proper contact. Well that's great, but only when they actually remember to include both springs. After a little SMH and a cigarette, I jacked the spring from a nearby pen and fixed it - I don't think I ever want to be that close to PCB with needle noses again.

Now I've got what hopefully is my final question of this build. I need some help with programs to stress test and benchmark, any suggestions?

[Stinky12]

Intel Linpack
Not really a stress test, but may come in handy
Intel CPU gadget

[Slamman]

I'm actually needing another 24 pin CPU, at least one, but I still wait till I find them for $20 usd in a deal, Normally I got the 400 watts for about $16 bucks, As cheap as possible, but the main thing now is only one of my rigs has a 20 to 24 pin converter wire, I'm not too confident going that route for gaming rigs! haha

I've yet to have a modular or new fangled cable PSU rig of any sort, I have no issue with IDE as well, ribbon cables are not a hassle to move if you're not flooding your case interior. Worst case was a rather small mATX OEM, Compaq versus Dell, though Dell had some VERY small Dimension series, they were still a nice screwless design, so I didn't mind it too much, the ODD trays had to be pulled out to access the mobo in the Pavilion, which was a slot 1 Athlon back then! haha

As for the cables, SATA is probably a bit of a problem, I don't like bending them overtly

This post has been edited by Slamman on Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 04:46

[les]

Well I stayed up a little later than I wanted to, but I've accomplished a good bit. I ended up resolving that issue with the card reader, and I also did quite a bit of cable management. I ended up running that 4 pin ATX under my PCI cards, it's pretty incognito.

[Azazel]

QUOTE (les @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 05:03)

Also the 4 pin ATX is about 1" too short to run behind the motherboard tray, which pisses me off to no end.

I know that all too well, hehe. They're ALWAYS too short. I hated having to run it across graphics card and CPU cooler like some kind of chump. There are extension cables to be had, though, so it's an easy fix.

QUOTE

My screwdriver isn't magnetic, which ended up pissing me off so many f*cking times tonight.

Then again, magnets and electronics don't go so well together. I've dropped my magnetic screwdriver onto a motherboard several times, and I f*cking sh*t myself every time.

[Slamman]

I keep an old magnet on my refrigerator, where you're likely to find them in common use, mine was from a speaker driver that was no longer, I believe, all you need do is brush a regular screw driver against it in one direction about 3 to 4 times, that i'll do it
I know the feeling over losing screws, I hold them in place with my finger nail if the magnetism is lacking

[Wolf68k]

QUOTE (les @ Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 22:03)

• My screwdriver isn't magnetic, which ended up pissing me off so many f*cking times tonight.

I think I know of a tip that help with that....well for next time.
Get a stick for a hot glue gun and put a small bit into the screw head. You shouldn't have to use a hot gun gun, you just need the stick itself. On the same note you could use a glue stick like kids use.
I read a tip once about taking hot glue and filling in the gap in wire cutters, let it harden then use a razor blade to slice between the cutter's blades. The idea was when you go to cut the end of a wire off instead of the piece flying off so place it'll stick to the glued end of the cutters.


As for stress testing.
Prime95 is still a good stress test for the CPU and RAM.
I would start off running at least 3-6 passes with memtest86+ to make sure the RAM (pre-overclocking first but also for sure after overclocking) is good. Then go to the Prime95.
eVGA OC Scanner will heat up the graphics card pretty quick but let it run for a few hours to see how it handles the stress. On the off chance eVGA's software won't work on a non-eVGA card, doubtful they would do that, MSI Afterburner/Kombustor should get the job done as well.

Benchmarks for the graphic card are the same as you'd find in a review article; 3D Mark whatever the latest one is. For the CPU, RAM and the rest of the system it's PC Mark.


@Azazel
As long as the strength of the magnetic screw driver is very low, just enough to hold the screw on, it should be ok to have them around.
You dropping one on your motherboard, even a non-magnetic screw driver dropped onto a mobo can screw things up.

This post has been edited by Wolf68k on Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 15:58

[les]

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 15:54)

QUOTE (les @ Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 22:03) • My screwdriver isn't magnetic, which ended up pissing me off so many f*cking times tonight. I think I know of a tip that help with that....well for next time. Get a stick for a hot glue gun and put a small bit into the screw head. You shouldn't have to use a hot gun gun, you just need the stick itself. On the same note you could use a glue stick like kids use. I read a tip once about taking hot glue and filling in the gap in wire cutters, let it harden then use a razor blade to slice between the cutter's blades. The idea was when you go to cut the end of a wire off instead of the piece flying off so place it'll stick to the glued end of the cutters. As for stress testing. Prime95 is still a good stress test for the CPU and RAM. I would start off running at least 3-6 passes with memtest86+ to make sure the RAM (pre-overclocking first but also for sure after overclocking) is good. Then go to the Prime95. eVGA OC Scanner will heat up the graphics card pretty quick but let it run for a few hours to see how it handles the stress. On the off chance eVGA's software won't work on a non-eVGA card, doubtful they would do that, MSI Afterburner/Kombustor should get the job done as well. Benchmarks for the graphic card are the same as you'd find in a review article; 3D Mark whatever the latest one is. For the CPU, RAM and the rest of the system it's PC Mark. @Azazel As long as the strength of the magnetic screw driver is very low, just enough to hold the screw on, it should be ok to have them around. You dropping one on your motherboard, even a non-magnetic screw driver dropped onto a mobo can screw things up.

The hot glue stick is a really good idea, I'll have to try that one. Here I thought that everything had changed with stress testing and bench-marking software, but I guess everyone wants to stick with old reliable - I'm cool with that, learning new stuff is for the birds.

I guess I'm pretty much wrapped up with this build, so I'll request a lock before slamman is a chance to say anything else completely useless. If I have any more issues you'll probably see me in the random questions thread. Thanks a lot to all of those who posted their input, you've helped out quite a bit.