[Pat]

QUOTE (abottig @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 18:52)

QUOTE (Pat @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 19:50) QUOTE (Gtaman_92 @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 18:35) QUOTE (Icarus @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 23:25) How does Zimmerman being fat have any relevance here? Christ... I guess you support that asshole . I second his question. Explain how Zimmerman being "fat" has any relevance. Zimmerman was fat, dumb, and "patrolling" with a loaded weapon. Explain why you are defending him.

I'm not defending him, I'm asking why his body weight is relevant. Explain to me why it is anymore relevant than, for example, his shoe size.

[ryuclan]

Jesus Christ people...Really?

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (abottig @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 16:00)

You have a stupid donkey, who took his gun out on "patrol" with him, and stuck his nose in where it didn't belong. So Trayvon *may* have jumped him, and said donkey shoots off his gun. I blame the donkey with the gun, and not the adolescent who used his fists.

So you're saying that no one has a right to watch or protect the neighborhood they live in, but people DO have the right to physically attack anyone that asks them what they're doing?

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (ryuclan @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 17:06)

Jesus Christ people...Really?

I know right lol...

this thread is puke-worthy.

[Slamman]

I'm confused by the whole hispanic or White thing too, it's like the arguments over who will be the protag in GTA V, not making light of the racial issue, but the discussions here are straying from the facts, or what we know and do not know, which is a big problem

[abottig]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 20:54)

QUOTE (abottig @ Friday, Apr 6 2012, 16:00) You have a stupid donkey, who took his gun out on "patrol" with him, and stuck his nose in where it didn't belong. So Trayvon *may* have jumped him, and said donkey shoots off his gun. I blame the donkey with the gun, and not the adolescent who used his fists. So you're saying that no one has a right to watch or protect the neighborhood they live in, but people DO have the right to physically attack anyone that asks them what they're doing?

Patrol your neighborhood with a loaded gun... for what? Nobody should have that right, that's what the police are for.

@Pat:

You're right: Being fat has nothing to do with anything. I am, however, prejudiced against fat people. At least I can admit it.

[lil weasel]

Well, it appears we have finally reached the bottom of the 'discussion'.
No more contest of the 'given facts'.
It is no longer a matter of what the law says.
It is no longer a matter of the 'defense' given.
It is no longer a concern of the Authorities interpretation of the law.

It is reduced to an Anti-Gun diatribe.
It is a matter of physical personal health.
It is a matter of paternal legitimacy.

Give it up, “Move along, there is nothing more to be said here.”

[Girish]

QUOTE (abottig @ Saturday, Apr 7 2012, 11:44)

At least I can admit it.

In that case, you would have no problem admitting that you're a grade A idiot.

Good job destroying the topic to bits and pieces. There's no way this topic can be rescued now, so... /topic

Edit: Unlocked. If anyone takes it down the sh*tter like before, it'll be locked again.

This post has been edited by Girish on Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 15:55

[leik oh em jeez!]

Alright. Let's try to keep this on topic this time. This about Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. If anyone comes back in calling racism over nothing you're most likely going to just the topic locked again, so don't. You don't know the people posting on here so don't bother calling them racist, just discuss the case.

I suppose some of you already know that Zimmerman has now been charged with 2nd Degree Murder, and some more evidence has surfaced.

So let's take a look at what we know now.

Zimmerman phone call to police transcript

QUOTE

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses. Dispatcher: OK... Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me. Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111? Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now? Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. Dispatcher: OK. Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male. Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks? Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens. Dispatcher: Late teens ok. Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here? Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else. Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. sh*t he's running. Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running? Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now walking. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin. Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards? Zimmerman: The back entrance...f*cking [disputed/unintelligible] This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name? Zimmerman: George...He ran. Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name? A clicking or knocking sound can be heard here Zimmerman: Zimmerman Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from? Clicking or knocking sound is heard again Zimmerman: [redacted] Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at? For the remainder of the recording, Zimmerman sounds distracted. The knocking sound occurs several times during the final exchange with the dispatcher Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of? Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address. Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area? Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What's your apartment number? Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is. Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine. Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay? Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at? Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem. Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it? Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted] Zimmerman: Yeah you got it. Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area. Zimmerman: Thanks. Dispatcher: You're welcome.

With this posted here, I don't want to hear anymore about hoodies. His actions combined with the break ins are what made Martin look suspicious, so there's no reason to bring that argument back up.

After listening to the phone call, it is apparent that Zimmerman only followed Martin for 25-30 seconds after the dispatcher informed him that they didn't need him to. After which he gave the dispatcher his info and was apparently on his way back to his car to meet the officers that were already on the way.


We also know that Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend right up until the shooting.

QUOTE

She says she heard Martin say "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding "What are you doing here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing and that Martin's headset suddenly went silent, leading her to believe that he had been pushed. She attempted to call him back immediately, but was unable to reach him.

Analyzing this, it is apparent that it was Martin that started the verbal confrontation, and there were no words exchanged between the two before this.
While not with 100% certainty, this would also tend to point towards Martin as the one that started the physical confrontation.


I'm sure many of you have seen the video of Zimmerman at the police station. Fox noted that there was no abrasions on his head or blood on his shirt in the (very low quality) video, but later apologized and pointed what did appear to be an abrasion on the back of his head. I'll also remind you all that Zimmerman was treated by paramedics on scene before he was brought in for questioning, and that not much blood will find it's way to your shirt when you're pinned on the ground.


Let's also bring up some of the witness accounts.

QUOTE

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness referred to as a male said that he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[115][116] The witness later appeared on CNN AC360 referred to as a female, giving more details on her account. She pointed out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.

Reasons why I'm calling bullsh*t on this account:
1. Witness never mentioned hearing the screams
2. It is known that Zimmerman didn't walk away from the scene. He was sitting on the ground next to Martin when police arrived just a few minutes later.
3. Listening to Zimmerman's phone call, his voice could easily be confused with that of someone in their late teens, so the "older voice and younger voice" claim doesn't make any sense.
4. IF Zimmerman was on top, how did he end up with a broken nose, and how on Earth could he possibly obtain the abrasions on the back of his head that paramedics treated shortly after?

And another witness account from someone that lives in the area and is actually KNOWN to have been there at the time:

QUOTE

An eyewitness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated to Fox News Orlando that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911. He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, Martin was lying in the grass, and the witness believed Martin to be dead.

This account tends to line up exactly with Zimmerman's story, and all of the evidence. Much more believable if you ask me, but that really comes down to opinion.


One very common misconception is that Zimmerman was a self appointed neighborhood watchman. This is not true. He was appointed by the Home Owners Association as neighborhood watch captain, and in an HOA newsletter, it was recommended that residents call Zimmerman after calling the police.


I'll edit this later as I put some more evidence together, and make sure I'm getting facts from legitimate sources. In the mean time, stay on topic. No name calling, no personal attacks.

This post has been edited by leik oh em jeez! on Sunday, Apr 15 2012, 20:55

[lil weasel]

I would say you have subjective Testimony not evidence of fact, yet.
Still no time line?

[leik oh em jeez!]

7:09 pm – Zimmerman's 911 call begins
7:12 pm – Trayvon's girlfriend calls him
7:13 pm – Zimmerman's 911 call ends
7:16 pm – Trayvon call to girlfriend goes dead; 911 calls from the neighors begin
7:17 pm – First officer arrives on scene
7:30 pm – Martin pronounced dead
7:52 pm – Zimmerman arrival at police station recorded on video
Roughly 10:00 pm – Zimmerman released (duration described as "about two hours")

As you can see, there's no time for Zimmerman to "walk away" if he was found sitting on the ground next to Martin when officers first arrived.

[Slamman]

I honestly thought this would stay locked, but with the news of Zimmerman's lawyers and the tape, as well as his comments, he's likely digging a hole for himself without help

[abottig]

Finally.

Here's hoping Zimmerman wasn't placed in PC right away, and the other inmates got a piece of him.

Unfortunately, I don't expect him to be found guilty because of this awful "Stand Your Ground" law.

[Mockage]

Apparently Zimmerman is getting an extra chance.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=150638801

Oh yeah and,



These guys are pathetic. I mean if you're gonna make a dedication song for a loved one, at least accompany it with good meaning in the lyrics instead of adding in a dash of illiteracy and just well, sh*t.

[lil weasel]

We should wait for the trial to present the evidence before bias against latinos should be expressed.

[Shylock]

QUOTE (abottig @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 18:27)

Finally. Here's hoping Zimmerman wasn't placed in PC right away, and the other inmates got a piece of him. Unfortunately, I don't expect him to be found guilty because of this awful "Stand Your Ground" law.

Yes, let's condone more violence. That will sort this mess out.

[Irviding]

Leik, your post is great and all, but I'm sorry - I trust the homicide detective who wanted to charge him, as well as the state attorney who has officially charged him with murder 2. There is evidence we don't know about that proves his guilt. It's that simple. From what I have learned through numerous law classes and conversations with attorneys is that in a case like this, one so ridiculously public, the prosecutor does not want to embarrass him/herself by overcharging someone and then getting a not guilty verdict. Look at the prosecutor in the Casey Anthony case. That guy was so shamed and embarrassed that he resigned after the verdict.

There is absolutely no way that all of the evidence is out in the open right now - because with what those of us outside of the Florida law enforcement community know, there is simply not evidence for a murder 2 conviction. It's clear, however, that such evidence does exist.

[leik oh em jeez!]

@Mockage: That song is absolutely terrible. The ONLY point behind the song is based on misinformation.

@Irviding: Have you seen the new state prosecutor? That looks like the kind of crazy bitch that thinks everyone is guilty. She's trying way too hard to prove herself with the shoulder pads and red, there's no telling what's going on in her mind but I'd be willing to put money on those charges not being based on any good evidence.

You can't really use "they wouldn't be stupid enough to charge him without sufficient evidence" as evidence. Until they release more, we've got to look at what we've got rather than assuming there's incriminating evidence being withheld from us.

And I trust the story that all the evidence points towards, and the one that has multiple witness accounts that match up perfectly, rather than a "feeling" by one investigator. Call me crazy.

This post has been edited by leik oh em jeez! on Sunday, Apr 15 2012, 05:17

[Otter]

I do call you crazy. Why are you so convinced that shooting this kid was the right thing to do?

[Mike Tequeli]

QUOTE (Otter @ Sunday, Apr 15 2012, 05:19)

I do call you crazy. Why are you so convinced that shooting this kid was the right thing to do?

I feel like it has something to do with people who are strongly in favor of castle doctrine and similar self defense laws wanting to preserve these principles. Obviously the law is under a lot of scrutiny now as a result so they want to believe this kid deserved to die.

I don't really have a problem with people defending themselves, even with deadly force if necessary, I think the main problem obviously is that this was not justified self defense.