[ccrogers15]

QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Mar 3 2012, 07:25)

I have challenged anyone with a OEM of Windows ME to show a failure test for it, or even try a copy of mine and see how it works out for ya! With my first laptop, swapped a ME format on it (Dell Latitude LS) and all the drivers were there, it worked without a hitch I'd like to see Win 8 handling games without need of SP1 or 2, as Vista did need. Some reviewers are as hyped about Win8 as MS it seems, but as you mention, what is their goal in perhaps replacing Win7 with Win8!??

I liked windows me, and never had issues with it. (one time i had a blue screen, but thats less common then XP,vista or 7 at least).

[Wolf68k]

QUOTE (SyphonPayne @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 14:21)

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 10:58) I would be interested in this. If someone has it 8 installed on the exact same type of drive as 7 or maybe on a partition with 7, the point is not USB, SSD while the 7 is on a HDD (or vise versa) or has a virtual system or anything else that's not the same. I'd like to see the start up time. There's a video on YT of someone doing a test between 7 and 8 DP and 8 was so much faster, to me it was way way way too fast as most as if the 7 was on a HDD while 8 was on a SSD, and he never went into any details to the specs and you can't read the BIOS post well enough to see what drives were used enough that could have been edited later. Based on my experience with the Developer Preview (and I bet it's the same on the Consumer Preview,) in Windows 8, when you "shut down" your computer, it actually just logs you off and hibernates. This actually makes shutting down slower, but speeds up the next boot. I'm not really a big fan of that. Never really used sleep/hibernation much on previous operating systems. The only way to have a "clean" boot in Windows 8 is to restart. There is no way to "shut down" in Windows 8 without it automatically hibernating, unless you completely disable hibernation (may or may not have changed that in the Consumer Preview, I'll find out in a few days.)

Ok but in the video I was talking about, you can see the BIOS Post. Correctly me if I'm wrong, the hibernate mode is pretty much the equivalent of closing the screen on a laptop while the OS is running and then opening it again to have the OS spring to life.

But I do agree, doing that will/can confuse a lot of people that don't know any better. Just yet another example of MS trying to use Win8 to reinvent the wheel.

[Slamman]

QUOTE (ccrogers15 @ Monday, Mar 5 2012, 00:48)

QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Mar 3 2012, 07:25) I have challenged anyone with a OEM of Windows ME to show a failure test for it, or even try a copy of mine and see how it works out for ya! With my first laptop, swapped a ME format on it (Dell Latitude LS) and all the drivers were there, it worked without a hitch I'd like to see Win 8 handling games without need of SP1 or 2, as Vista did need. Some reviewers are as hyped about Win8 as MS it seems, but as you mention, what is their goal in perhaps replacing Win7 with Win8!?? I liked windows me, and never had issues with it. (one time i had a blue screen, but thats less common then XP,vista or 7 at least).

In OEM, did it come with your computer, pre-install. When I got mine, and used the Restore discs for the first time, there was a message that informed me I was using a Pre-Official release of ME, that I should contact the vendor, or some such... Never did, the only thing I was forced to do was remove the bloatware, year 2000 era website shopping and service links, it's rather amusing to see all those these days.

Hibernation is NOT STANDBY mode, Wolf, it saves data you have open and in use to your HDD, you can then REMOVE that HDD as long as you want, it will remain locked in the last open state you Hibernated in! I love using it

This post has been edited by Slamman on Monday, Mar 5 2012, 04:54

[sjaak327]

QUOTE (Xcommunicated @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 22:23)

I have yet to play around with the CP, but I'm not seeing that great of reviews so far. The general consensus seems to be that 8 is hell bent on the user sticking with Metro and basically tries to usher you back into it after switching over to the desktop. I'm also reading that any power user looking to do meaningful work on the desktop has to put up with extra clicks to circumvent the overall dumbed-down feel of the OS. I can't say for sure, but it looks like MS is trying to drive a square peg into a round hole. Trying to mesh a dumbed-down jack-off interface that will satisfy the schmucky mobile gizmo craze with a traditional desktop interface is bound to step on some toes, and those seem to be the toes of people looking to actually get sh*t done. MS must be banking a lot on the mobile craze being the bread and butter of the future, otherwise it seems like a lot of revenue could be lost on the business front.

Don't judge based on reviews, try it yourself, real powerusers use the keyboard above the mouse, because mouse movements take time. The new start screen for instance, is much better usable with the keyboard then the old startmenu was. Therefore I don't miss the old startmenu and prefer the new one. It is kind of apparent when shutting down is concerned, with the mouse it is one click more then on Windows 7, but alt+f4 to shutdown the pc atill works.

@wolf68k, shutting down the pc, just hibernates the kernel session, the user session is stopped, just as a normal shutdown would do, shutdown is also dead fast in my experience. Full hibernation is also still an option.

[SyphonPayne]

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 22:40)

QUOTE (SyphonPayne @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 14:21) QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 10:58) I would be interested in this. If someone has it 8 installed on the exact same type of drive as 7 or maybe on a partition with 7, the point is not USB, SSD while the 7 is on a HDD (or vise versa) or has a virtual system or anything else that's not the same. I'd like to see the start up time. There's a video on YT of someone doing a test between 7 and 8 DP and 8 was so much faster, to me it was way way way too fast as most as if the 7 was on a HDD while 8 was on a SSD, and he never went into any details to the specs and you can't read the BIOS post well enough to see what drives were used enough that could have been edited later. Based on my experience with the Developer Preview (and I bet it's the same on the Consumer Preview,) in Windows 8, when you "shut down" your computer, it actually just logs you off and hibernates. This actually makes shutting down slower, but speeds up the next boot. I'm not really a big fan of that. Never really used sleep/hibernation much on previous operating systems. The only way to have a "clean" boot in Windows 8 is to restart. There is no way to "shut down" in Windows 8 without it automatically hibernating, unless you completely disable hibernation (may or may not have changed that in the Consumer Preview, I'll find out in a few days.) Ok but in the video I was talking about, you can see the BIOS Post. Correctly me if I'm wrong, the hibernate mode is pretty much the equivalent of closing the screen on a laptop while the OS is running and then opening it again to have the OS spring to life. But I do agree, doing that will/can confuse a lot of people that don't know any better. Just yet another example of MS trying to use Win8 to reinvent the wheel.

You're thinking of sleep mode, I think. Sleep just puts the computer in a low-power state that keeps your user-mode and kernel-mode data in the RAM, which of course, is still powered. Traditional hibernation would take all of your RAM states (user and kernel-mode) and copy them to HDD, then shuts off the machine completely. When you start it back up, of course, you will see the BIOS. Vista (and it's successors) introduced hybrid-sleep which would actually hibernate and sleep at the same time. In other words it would store the user and kernel-mode data in the RAM AND on the HDD. That way if power was lost it could still resume.

What 8 does differently is that "Shut Down" is now a newer form of hibernation that only saves kernel-mode data, logs you off, and discards user-mode data. In this sense, it is essentially the same thing as traditional hibernation only with a few tweaks. This of course minimizes glitches caused by this new form of hibernation but I found that there were still glitches that would occur on the next boot that were practically the same as traditional sleep/hibernation, which were the reason I rarely used sleep/hibernation in the first place (only time either are useful for me is if I need to shut my laptop quickly.)

I still consider it cheating and not really all that innovative for Windows 8 to have changed the "Shut Down" functionality just to "brag" about "boot times" aka hibernation resume times. They failed to mention that it can still cause glitches.

[Wolf68k]

Ok ok ok I get it. Hibernate is different from sleep. My bad. Geeez. I got that when I looked up later before the barrage of everyone telling me I was wrong.
But as you said Syphon, there are still problems with it and I still think that are going to be people that will have a hard time with it later down the line.

[sjaak327]

On my machines I have yet to see any problems related to the kernel being put into hybernation when shutting down. I have been running the dp since september and the cp since last wednesday. I don't think it is cheating, rather a case of thinking out of the box, the result so far is great.

[Stinky12]

QUOTE (sjaak327 @ Sunday, Mar 4 2012, 15:25)

QUOTE (Stinky12 @ Friday, Mar 2 2012, 16:49) I've tried both developers preview which was released a few months back and their consumer preview that was released a few days ago. Running on VM, there is only 1 word that can describe both version. Complete and utter sh*t!!! In DP you can at least still function to the basics, but in CP it's so dumb down you can't do anything. First start is not start any more and has been integrated into the metro ui menu place on the right. There is no way to close off a open app unless you head over to task manager. Right now I'm stuck in IE and have no way of closing it.  Maybe using the keyboard ? ALt+f4 works fine over here. The new startscreen is much better then the old start screen, especially when using the keyboard. It is so much better and quicker then Windows 7, that I will probably going to load 8 on all of my pc's, the startup is so massively quicker, it isn't even funny.

I'm running on VM, and I believe I did try alt+F4, but I can't remember at this moment.
I'll try again to see if that works.

As for the power options, here's how I think about them

Shutdown: system does a complete power off any open programs or documents not saved will be lost once the system is turned back on
Hibernate: A form of stand by mode with no power draw, the system is able to keep current task in memory and let user to continue what they're doing once it resumes.
Sleep: Another form of stand by with system is in lowest power state, current task are also save and can be resumed when system is back up and running.
On a laptop, it's sleep first and if battery is very low, it goes into hibernate.
For sleep or hibernate, you have to get into bios and set ACPI to S3 or higher, most factory default are set as S1.
Then a reinstall may be necessary for it to work properly.

This post has been edited by Stinky12 on Monday, Mar 5 2012, 22:33

[Slamman]

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Monday, Mar 5 2012, 15:50)

Ok ok ok I get it. Hibernate is different from sleep. My bad. Geeez. I got that when I looked up later before the barrage of everyone telling me I was wrong. But as you said Syphon, there are still problems with it and I still think that are going to be people that will have a hard time with it later down the line.

Stand by just stores to memory that's still dynamic and in use, so a disrupt in power kills the saved content, Hibernation as I mentioned, it's strongest attribute is storing to disc instead of memory, allowing the drive to be removed and still resumed again from where you left off, I always activate Hibernation, but it requires allocation of disc space set from Control Panel.

Sleep and Standby are about the same, the advantage is the quickest resumption into the full on system, but it's the same as being on, only a smaller draw on the system, I think StandBy and Sleep are much the same, depends on the system maker.

Syphon, not sure at all what glitches you're even talking about, since I'm very pleased using Hibernation and I can resume working without an issue, If prompted for deleting and rebooting fresh, I typically started a hibernating drive on the wrong machine! hahaha

This post has been edited by Slamman on Tuesday, Mar 6 2012, 01:17

[ccrogers15]

QUOTE (Slamman @ Monday, Mar 5 2012, 04:52)

QUOTE (ccrogers15 @ Monday, Mar 5 2012, 00:48) QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Mar 3 2012, 07:25) I have challenged anyone with a OEM of Windows ME to show a failure test for it, or even try a copy of mine and see how it works out for ya! With my first laptop, swapped a ME format on it (Dell Latitude LS) and all the drivers were there, it worked without a hitch I'd like to see Win 8 handling games without need of SP1 or 2, as Vista did need. Some reviewers are as hyped about Win8 as MS it seems, but as you mention, what is their goal in perhaps replacing Win7 with Win8!?? I liked windows me, and never had issues with it. (one time i had a blue screen, but thats less common then XP,vista or 7 at least). In OEM, did it come with your computer, pre-install. When I got mine, and used the Restore discs for the first time, there was a message that informed me I was using a Pre-Official release of ME, that I should contact the vendor, or some such... Never did, the only thing I was forced to do was remove the bloatware, year 2000 era website shopping and service links, it's rather amusing to see all those these days. Hibernation is NOT STANDBY mode, Wolf, it saves data you have open and in use to your HDD, you can then REMOVE that HDD as long as you want, it will remain locked in the last open state you Hibernated in! I love using it

OEM. It was supplied with an old Micron Laptop.

[Wolf68k]

QUOTE (sjaak327 @ Monday, Mar 5 2012, 12:26)

On my machines I have yet to see any problems related to the kernel being put into hybernation when shutting down. I have been running the dp since september and the cp since last wednesday. I don't think it is cheating, rather a case of thinking out of the box, the result so far is great.

I was thinking along the lines of problems with average mom/dad/grandma not understanding it.

[Slamman]

I just formatted my found Media Center HP PC, Win 7 Home Premium, and using HP version of Vista on my laptop, I can see they have a buncha power functions, if you look at the list of modes, relating to battery, but the main problem is I get the Power Scheme Balanced, Economy, or Power choices, repeatedly (different links bring you back to the same options) and I just bought a new battery and it's reporting it's at 65% and "not charging" though it's plugged in, any idea on how to get this thing fully charging?! While plugged in, the systems been off, and hibernating, so far, no change. This is a 6 cell 5200 mAH battery, an improvement over the stock 4000mAH one I was replacing, but I can't get the max charge it seems, it's rating at about 2:30 basically, give or take 20 min! haha

[SyphonPayne]

Most of the problems that I have seen with sleep/hibernation are driver-related. Hopefully with Windows 8 forcing hibernation now driver vendors will fix them. I still think Windows 8 is cheating though with the much-touted "faster" boot times.

I just updated one of my machines that has the DP on it. Turns out they extended the expiration date for it. I'll get to installing the CP on my Sandy Bridge laptop within the next couple of days.

[Euda]

QUOTE (MrMateczko @ Friday, Mar 2 2012, 06:31)

It sucks. Don't bother. Unless you watn to install it in na ARM tablet, then it will be somewhat good. But Microsoft, slow down! It's not the time to push this Metro sh*t to desktops just now.

exactly what i think

[ccrogers15]

OMG! I love the new logo:

Yea, old news. But still, very neat logo.

[Slamman]

Anyone think Win8 and the new XBox dashboard seem to share a like-minded design? I just updated with a download from MS's site, my old Xbox, which worried me, I can safely admit, The Deed is Done, and it gave me an error screen to boot, but I just turned it off and on again, as the "flash" to the Rom was updating, I have to tell you, my only working Xbox, and I was in a sheer panic!!

[Wolf68k]

That's the idea. M$ wants to have all of their OSes looking the same or similar to each other. Be it the desktop, the phone, tables, and yes Xbox.

[Slamman]

Seeing their Marketplace where software suited to your Vista+ Performance score, then links on that page all giving errors, it's got that REALLY rather bland Windows 8 graphic fonts. I think we artistic lot will tire of it in short order.
The question is whether any of the links off here give you errors, a blank main page? Error text in red

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstor...goryID.50790000

I'm trying the DP version, I really have serious misgivings, they have blanked out 'customize' till you update, it's supposed to expire on the 11th or 12th, you have to update, it reboots every two hours, if not every hour!?!

It's just very confusing initially, since I'd like to click in the four corners, or anywhere with a right click to get navigational panes.

I found if you hit the Control+ESC sequence, you can move from the Metro to classic desktop and more options, between open screen Apps using Alt-Tab. Had less luck closing an app or program with ALT+F4 then expected, you struggle with that as well!
I don't mind actual Ribbon controls in every Window, though for Office 2007 users, this was an issue, those I talked with were not pleased with the change, and I believe this was the same in the press.
Esc and Backspace keys don't do much, the WIN key does help a bit, You can get to Control Panel or My Computer to access most normal Windows ops.

I do find the lack of Help and intuitive navigation to be quite maddening, I like small bits of the OS here and there, but it defies the If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It maxim

I'd say PIANO is one of the neatest apps of all. There's the robot navigation puzzle, a neat graphic game, in 3D. There's the treehouse word-forming game with a timer, make a word from 3 letters given, so, not too bad if you have kids in the house using Windows instead of your Smartphone
No Angry Birds, sadly!

Well, what you all think about the new Internet Explorer 10??
I was surprised they already left IE9 and 8 behind
As for using the standard desktop, it's hard enough that the Start button keeps the Metro dash on hand rather then handy SHUTDOWN options, I'm tempted to just hit the HARD OFF Power button to turn off the PC!

BUT, I think that actually sends it into Standby mode!

Well, UPDATING, since I thought this thread was going to garner a lot of attention, not yet though I guess...
I burned the ISO for the Consumer Preview off on two DVDs this time, in case they are planning to retire the Developer Preview, I'm not too sure, but if you keep up with update requirements and Validation, is the copy available to use until early next year???

I notice it just warns you automatically to buy the copy officially, but we know it's not formerly for sale yet.

What opinions on this, guys? Gals?
Have you gotten use to the odd navigation yet? I don't think I'll warm up to it, certainly much fonder of Windows ME overall, but I like what it shares with Windows 7 and Vista, I do like the Aero interface and translucent effects of the windows and HD backdrops look splendid

This post has been edited by Slamman on Thursday, Mar 15 2012, 04:00

[Wolf68k]

I'll give Slamman this; he posted a link in another topic that I looked that was useful, not useful to that topic but useful just the same.
However that is not why I'm posting. On that page I noticed another article that said "Windows 8 - Windows 8 will support Retina-class displays" and the first line is, "Windows 8 specs include displays that are even sharper than Apple's fabled Retina display, which Apple claims is as clear as the human eye is capable of seeing."
Well who gives a s**t when there aren't any Windows 8 devices that will support it.

Just because the OS supports it doesn't mean a bloody thing. XP can support resolutions just as high, as can most graphics cards in the last 10+ years, but if you don't have a display that will support it then what is the point of bragging about it.

Could Apple have made iOS 1 to support the same resolution as the current Retina display? Sure why not. Did they? No. Why? Because the display itself wouldn't support it so what would be the point.
Apple makes the iOS to support their devices which there are limited versions of. MS has to make the Win8 OS to support a wide range of devices with a wide range of specs and then hope someone will make a device that supports it. The Android OS, I'm pretty sure, can support the same resolution as the new iPad and what that article is boosting, but again what good is if no device that small can support it.


Sorry, had to rant.

[Slamman]

I'm hoping people can really point out what Microsoft should be doing to make this Windows rise above it's current level
Notice there's a LIVE ESSENTIALS, on my newer Vista or Windows 7, Live Mail, Photo and Video tools exist as does the Cloud for Xbox users, this is a shift to online apps, but should not be the basis that MS hopes users rely on, since you cannot be hooked up to the WWW all the time. This is a concern for gamers, for computer owners less so, perhaps, but also in game design for SP versus MP incorporation and having something like Movie Maker handy as part of the components to Windows. There appears to be two different models for some of the same known Windows apps; the 'Live' version, assuming it's part of the "cloud", or a stand-alone version saved to your disc during install. Now I've only looked at it from the article stand point, but the Essentials installer could add applications that work on or off line.

Cloud for Xbox360 is a new addition that allows "safer" storage online from your XBL account, I should point out, it's also part of the idea of the new Office 360 IIRC, where it's only an online accessible feature, and the Metro interface has Internet requirements for some of what you see adorning it's deskspace all the time. Like RSS, once you get an update, it can remain offline and getting statically old too, which may bother some people! haha

This post has been edited by Slamman on Monday, Mar 26 2012, 02:49