[Jack.]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 07:08)

QUOTE (nightwalker83 @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 01:25) QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 08:07) Why have you made the Northern Ireland part of the flag green? Are you incapable of identifying between the Republic and the North? Interesting I'm going to google this. Edit: This interesting! It also explains more about what I asked above. That is interesting- however, I don't think it's realistic to use either the green harp or the Irish tricolour to represent Northern Ireland as they only represent the wishes of the Nationalist minority rather than the unionist majority. Hence why I'm rather inclined to agree with Robinski's earlier post in response to Jack. I do find it very ironic that he appears to support the idea of the entirety of Ireland being in the union (against the wishes of basically everyone in the Republic) but by the same token decides to ignore England. That or he's living in some bizarre alternate reality.

I was not representing NIRL in anyway, The Green is for Southern Ireland, I made the flag because thats how I personally want it to be!

Dragon for Wales, Blue for Scotland, Green for Southern Ireland.

No England and No NIRL!

[sivispacem]

That sounds like a nightmare to be honest. The two economically weakest parts of the British Isles plus the first Eurozone economic catastrophe. Why debt you invite Greece to join that party?

[GTA_stu]

I don't know if we would even change the flag if Scotland did leave the union. It's iconic and has been unchanged for so long, plus I doubt the majority of people actually realise it is supposed to be made up of the different countries individual flags anyways. And that one Alex linked is awful, the green looks terrible. Don't even get me started on the dragon. I think if it was changed they'd probably just take out the St. Andrew's cross and leave it at that.

I still think it's a crazy idea and is more based on Scottish vanity and Anglophobia than actual plausible practical reasons. I was watching a programme on it yesterday, might have actually been the news, and there was a guy talking absolute nonsense about how they are so different to the English and they should reinstate gaelic as the official language to replace English. Honestly if they never made the film Braveheart I bet we wouldn't even be discussing this.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 09:57)

That sounds like a nightmare to be honest. The two economically weakest parts of the British Isles plus the first Eurozone economic catastrophe. Why debt you invite Greece to join that party?

Alright... weird discussion in the above posts.

Sivis, I ask this mostly to you. How would you feel of the majority of Svotland were "for" independence rather than against? Should they get that wish? You know how I feel about Scottish independence but I'm curious of your thougjt

[Typhus]

QUOTE (Jack. @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 14:46)

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 07:08) QUOTE (nightwalker83 @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 01:25) QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 08:07) Why have you made the Northern Ireland part of the flag green? Are you incapable of identifying between the Republic and the North? Interesting I'm going to google this. Edit: This interesting! It also explains more about what I asked above. That is interesting- however, I don't think it's realistic to use either the green harp or the Irish tricolour to represent Northern Ireland as they only represent the wishes of the Nationalist minority rather than the unionist majority. Hence why I'm rather inclined to agree with Robinski's earlier post in response to Jack. I do find it very ironic that he appears to support the idea of the entirety of Ireland being in the union (against the wishes of basically everyone in the Republic) but by the same token decides to ignore England. That or he's living in some bizarre alternate reality. I was not representing NIRL in anyway, The Green is for Southern Ireland, I made the flag because thats how I personally want it to be! Dragon for Wales, Blue for Scotland, Green for Southern Ireland. No England and No NIRL!

Like I said, you're an Anglophobe.
We deserve to be ignored, don't we? We're just so evil and disgusting and rotten inside. That's the real reason for this talk of independence, isn't it? It's not about self determination. It's about the very simple fact that almost every other country in the British Isles hates the English.
And that's why I want Scotland to leave, because I am sick of their whining, I am sick of their resentment, I am sick of their consistent attempts to make us look like monsters. I want nothing more to do with them and I don't believe in coexisting no matter what economic advantages the Union brings. It's about our sense of self, our individual history.
England is England and Scotland is Scotland. There is no such thing as Britain. And if there is, it's a mongrel nation which forces people who hate each other to live in accord. Many histories and cultures and lives sown roughly together into one body. A wretched, diseased creature. There's your Britain.

This post has been edited by Typhus on Sunday, May 27 2012, 17:00

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 16:34)

Sivis, I ask this mostly to you. How would you feel of the majority of Svotland were "for" independence rather than against? Should they get that wish? You know how I feel about Scottish independence but I'm curious of your thougjt

Subjectively, I couldn't give two flying f*cks whether Scotland was part of the union or not. In real terms they are benefit-neutral; that is, they take about what they give. The UK wouldn't be poorer without them (though strategically it would probably be weaker) but it won't benefit either. Basically, I struggle to care. If the majority of Scots really do want to break away and fully understand the economic and political risks of doing so, then great, but it's rather akin to me saying "if nation X want to vote in a genocidal bunch of lunatics who massacre every first-born child it's their right to do so as democratically elected leaders"- that is it's theoretically okay but in practical terms it would be so stupid as to essentially be suicidal, so therefore the theory is largely irrelevant.

[NateShaw92]

I think yes. Honestly i don't see any reason why not, if what some people say is true and Scotland can't survive on its own then they will have learnt that lesson, and if they can more power to them. They wanna go I say why stop them? good luck Scotland

[KaRzY6]

I say no. Why should there be another country in the world(and Europe)? I think there are already enough countries. If anything, countries should be joining together, not seperating. The British Isles are only a small area, England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotish should just be one. And I think Ireland would also be better in the UK aswell.

[NateShaw92]

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 03:36)

I say no. Why should there be another country in the world(and Europe)? I think there are already enough countries. If anything, countries should be joining together, not seperating. The British Isles are only a small area, England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotish should just be one. And I think Ireland would also be better in the UK aswell.

The Irish would disagree, strongly, you said that to a true Irishman he would proably punch you in the face.
Irish and British (particularly English) have a troublesome history: Ireland nearly did join UK, forcably, in the days of the empire, Oliver Cromwell I believe started the sh*t off. I think there was a series of 'elections' many years ago like late 19th or early 20th century, can't remember exactly. All regions but one did not want to join UK, the only region that voted to go part of UK was made up mostly of the British settlers/invaders (depends how you see it), that region is now N.Ireland, so N.Ireland ended up being part of UK. Sinn Fein have campaigned to have N.Ireland returned ever since and the well-known terror group the IRA worked to this aim also: A bloody campaign which only ended in the 90s and has had odd flickers of coming back; like a few years ago some soldiers killed in Belfast.

This post has been edited by NateShaw92 on Friday, Jul 27 2012, 03:58

[KaRzY6]

QUOTE (NateShaw92 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 14:51)

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 03:36) I say no. Why should there be another country in the world(and Europe)? I think there are already enough countries. If anything, countries should be joining together, not seperating. The British Isles are only a small area, England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotish should just be one. And I think Ireland would also be better in the UK aswell. The Irish would disagree, strongly, you said that to a true Irishman he would proably punch you in the face. Irish and British (particularly English) have a troublesome history: Ireland nearly did join UK, forcably, in the days of the empire, Oliver Cromwell I believe started the sh*t off. I think there was a series of 'elections' many years ago like late 19th or early 20th century, can't remember exactly. All regions but one did not want to join UK, the only region that voted to go part of UK was made up mostly of the British settlers/invaders (depends how you see it), that region is now N.Ireland, so N.Ireland ended up being part of UK. Sinn Fein have campaigned to have N.Ireland returned ever since and the well-known terror group the IRA worked to this aim also: A bloody campaign which only ended in the 90s and has had odd flickers of coming back; like a few years ago some soldiers killed in Belfast.

Yes, I know the history of the two. And the hatred. But the country would be so much better off, especially ecomonic wise. Most of the country is in poverty (from what I have heard, sorry if this is false).

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 05:10)

Most of the country is in poverty (from what I have heard, sorry if this is false).

It is. They've rather turned it around now, and are doing pretty well in many economic areas.

[NateShaw92]

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 04:10)

QUOTE (NateShaw92 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 14:51) QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 03:36) I say no. Why should there be another country in the world(and Europe)? I think there are already enough countries. If anything, countries should be joining together, not seperating. The British Isles are only a small area, England, Whales, Northern Ireland and Scotish should just be one. And I think Ireland would also be better in the UK aswell. The Irish would disagree, strongly, you said that to a true Irishman he would proably punch you in the face. Irish and British (particularly English) have a troublesome history: Ireland nearly did join UK, forcably, in the days of the empire, Oliver Cromwell I believe started the sh*t off. I think there was a series of 'elections' many years ago like late 19th or early 20th century, can't remember exactly. All regions but one did not want to join UK, the only region that voted to go part of UK was made up mostly of the British settlers/invaders (depends how you see it), that region is now N.Ireland, so N.Ireland ended up being part of UK. Sinn Fein have campaigned to have N.Ireland returned ever since and the well-known terror group the IRA worked to this aim also: A bloody campaign which only ended in the 90s and has had odd flickers of coming back; like a few years ago some soldiers killed in Belfast. Yes, I know the history of the two. And the hatred. But the country would be so much better off, especially ecomonic wise. Most of the country is in poverty (from what I have heard, sorry if this is false).

Britain's economy is not great either, the economic benefits would be benefit-neutral as I see it, if the benefits were to outweight the disadvantages from an economic standpoitn, it would not make it worth it from a social standpoint. It might even start up the IRA again, none of us want that, not worth the lives of innocents.

[Viperman]

It's been really interesting reading this topic. It's remarkable the stereotyping of Scottish people that most of the users are trying to.describe.

I'm Scottish, and damn proud. I do consider myself Scottish, not British. And yes, there is the comman joke about "English are this and that". Having said that though, it is generally a banter, joke. We actually don't hold anything against England, and its people.

Becoming independent would be great for our egos, and pride, thats about it. But I honestly believe most Scots realize that, and appriciate the fact that being independent would be terrible for our country's economy, and just a damn right pain in the arse full stop.

I personally don't want to break away. It would be moronic.

[glenn tha killer]

QUOTE (NateShaw92 @ Saturday, Jul 28 2012, 04:37)

It might even start up the IRA again, none of us want that, not worth the lives of innocents.

Sorry I miss read that I apologize.

And your right even I`d take up a f*cking gun if that would ever happen. We`d be all way too proud to let it happen in the first place.

QUOTE (DarrinPA)

Although I haven't followed this story closely I do feel as if it's my civic duty as an American to give my opinion in how forgein countries should be run.

^And thats one of countries issues. I thought team America when I saw that...

@KaRzY6: Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about? You think Ireland should re-join Britan, I`m sorry but just because America is in debt doesn`t mean it should re-join Britan. NateShaw is very right if you said that here we would punch you in the face. Its become part of culture. We managed to break away from the Empire that was next store, and to finally end all of the sh*t. Like Jeasus Christ Oliver Cromwell may of served his country and rightfully brought a new and fairer system to the table in England, but man, he f*cking depleted our population by lots. From that comment I now know you don`t have a clue what your talking about.


And sorry to hurt your feelings here but were a first world country. Our Economie is f*cked up but we certainly arn`t `In poverty` at all. I`d like people to start saying how my Country is in poverty then saying half arsed comments about us.

This post has been edited by glenn tha killer on Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 14:15

[SmC12]

QUOTE (Viperman @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 13:17)

It's been really interesting reading this topic. It's remarkable the stereotyping of Scottish people that most of the users are trying to.describe. I'm Scottish, and damn proud. I do consider myself Scottish, not British. And yes, there is the comman joke about "English are this and that". Having said that though, it is generally a banter, joke. We actually don't hold anything against England, and its people. Becoming independent would be great for our egos, and pride, thats about it. But I honestly believe most Scots realize that, and appriciate the fact that being independent would be terrible for our country's economy, and just a damn right pain in the arse full stop. I personally don't want to break away. It would be moronic.

I agree with this. From what I've seen the only people supporting the independence are those completely blind to the economic factors and just care about patriotism and being "Scottish". Like that really makes a difference in our lives? I personally consider myself Scottish, but not in a way that I completely ignore the fact that I'm part of Britain, I simply say it because it is where I live, not to seperate myself from the rest of the nation, I don't understand why some people feel the need to do so.

To me I don't see any significant benefit that would result from becoming independant, we're doing just fine as part of Britain. Our economy wouldn't be any better, it's the whole nation that has problems, moving away would still leave us with the same problems, and without any kind of support from the rest of the UK we would fail to recover. Also I personaly don't trust Alex Salmond at all and I don't believe he could successfully run this country as an independant nation. Just my opinion.

[KaRzY6]

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Thursday, Aug 2 2012, 00:57)

@KaRzY6: Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about? You think Ireland should re-join Britan, I`m sorry but just because America is in debt doesn`t mean it should re-join Britan. NateShaw is very right if you said that here we would punch you in the face. Its become part of culture. We managed to break away from the Empire that was next store, and to finally end all of the sh*t. Like Jeasus Christ Oliver Cromwell may of served his country and rightfully brought a new and fairer system to the table in England, but man, he f*cking depleted our population by lots. From that comment I now know you don`t have a clue what your talking about. And sorry to hurt your feelings here but were a first world country. Our Economie is f*cked up but we certainly arn`t `In poverty` at all. I`d like people to start saying how my Country is in poverty then saying half arsed comments about us.

How about settle the f*ck down? I used a very important word in my post, and that was think. It's my opinion. No, I haven't been to Ireland and I don't have a clue what the state of the country is. And I also used another great phase when I said the country was in poverty, it was 'from what I have heard'.

So next time read my post carefully before going spaz on the internet.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Thursday, Aug 2 2012, 08:55)

How about settle the f*ck down? I used a very important word in my post, and that was think. It's my opinion. No, I haven't been to Ireland and I don't have a clue what the state of the country is. And I also used another great phase when I said the country was in poverty, it was 'from what I have heard'. So next time read my post carefully before going spaz on the internet.

Simmer down yourself. His response was perfectly legitimate and proportionate in light of the absolute nonsense you posted. Opinions are all well and good in here, but if you don't want yours being picked apart, disputed or even ridiculed, then you're in the wrong part of the forum I'm afraid.

[glenn tha killer]

Yes I belive we`ve no intentions of arguing. But I felt I needed to step in and put my points across. I`m sorry to say it but some, not all, of your `opinons`are complete bull, basing things on what you`ve heard in a debate topic can prove to be quite reckless as in, that most rumors and things people heard are a small part of fact or completely make believe. In future investigate, before assumption.

[WF the Hobgoblin]

So what do you think of this business about allowing sixteen year olds to vote in this referendum?

While I guess it's probably better that there will just be one question now, I could never really understand the fuss about the number of questions. And personally I don't agree with giving 16 and 17s the vote. I'm sure there are plenty of mature people of that age who want to vote but I really think Cameron should have said no.

A lot of people use the arguement about 16 year olds being able to fight for their country, get married and such to justify it, but I don't understand why we don't just make the minimum age 18 for pretty much everything.

I'm curious how much this will help the SNP's chances now. I suspect it help them a bit, but I really doubt we'll be independant anytime soon.

[sivispacem]

It's full-on idiotic. Literally the only part of the British Constitution that a majority of citizens understand and support, and the Scots want to make a mockery of it by letting a few thousand (at best) 16-year-olds vote in a referendum? All I can see happening is the SNP pandering to the young and naive in order to try and get themselves out of the 22%-support-for-devolution sh*tstorm they've sailed into by announcing the referendum. The fact that over 50% of the Scottish population have openly said that they don't want independence should be all that's required to send that fat, jowelly West-Lothaian prick back under his rock. Hopefully at the bottom of the North Sea.

Also, you can't serve in a combat role at 16 in the armed forces. Not until you are 18.