[3niX]

Well...

@ Irviding - Such an environment might make that person supress their homosexual tendencies. At least thats what I think K2 was refering to.

Its not like you can actually choose your sexual preferences. However, you can enforce yourself in a role which might become hardwired as time passes.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54)

I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference?

Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 21:01)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated.

Interesting. I don't know much about genetics really, so this is pretty eye-opening. I just still don't get how gay kids can come out of a family that raises kids the same. Then again, that might just be the cause. I have two younger cousins, one who is a girl and is totally normal, pretty, popular at school, probably 13 or something, then a boy who is about 8 or so, and he is also normal and popular at school but he is very feminine. There has been talk in the family that he might be gay but I don't know. I mean I could certainly see it being that he spent so much time with his sister growing up, took up her hobbies like dancing and singing, etc. Again this is totally speculative on my part but again just after eating dinner there today (I'm back up in NY for Christmas) I certainly have noticed what my mother and aunts were talking about.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 14:10)

QUOTE (Melchior @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 21:01) QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated. Interesting. I don't know much about genetics really, so this is pretty eye-opening. I just still don't get how gay kids can come out of a family that raises kids the same. Then again, that might just be the cause. I have two younger cousins, one who is a girl and is totally normal, pretty, popular at school, probably 13 or something, then a boy who is about 8 or so, and he is also normal and popular at school but he is very feminine. There has been talk in the family that he might be gay but I don't know. I mean I could certainly see it being that he spent so much time with his sister growing up, took up her hobbies like dancing and singing, etc. Again this is totally speculative on my part but again just after eating dinner there today (I'm back up in NY for Christmas) I certainly have noticed what my mother and aunts were talking about.

I've also read that elder siblings conform to the parents ethics and philosophies more than younger siblings. So maybe being treated as though they're more moral and trustworthy makes them less likely to deviate from sexuality and gender roles as a whole. Here is the article where I read all of this.

I'd also assert (albeit, it's based on nothing at all) that having older siblings makes you more socially adept, because you're used to communicating and competing with people who are more developed than you (and therefore, stronger and more intelligent) and are therefore more likely to come out of the closet. Given all of this, I'd say any research into the matter would be highly dubious as statistics don't show what factors make people gay, but rather what factors make them openly gay. The stigma surrounding homosexuality might be too great a variable, which gives us a catch-22 because homosexuality as we understand it would be completely different were it totally acceptable (think:ancient Greece).

EDIT: From the above article: "Scientists think that this phenomenon is caused by a mother's body reacting to her son's foreign dude-proteins, and making antibodies to fight them." I'd say that this effect would give you more oestrogen or whatever, but that wouldn't make you gay (again, it's immature to look at gender and sexuality as being inextricably linked), it would make you more effeminate, and you'd feel less pressure to conform. So what I said earlier about how homosexuality leads to flamboyancy could work both ways.

This post has been edited by Melchior on Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 04:51

[Chinatown Wars]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 02:01)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated.

Hmm. I laughed when I read this because I'm firstborn and gay. Those "scientists" better rethink/redo their tests.

[*MURDOC*]

QUOTE (Chinatown Wars @ Saturday, Dec 24 2011, 03:52)

QUOTE (Melchior @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 02:01) QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated. Hmm. I laughed when I read this because I'm firstborn and gay. Those "scientists" better rethink/redo their tests.

Well he did say "very unlikely", not "impossible".

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Chinatown Wars @ Saturday, Dec 24 2011, 18:52)

QUOTE (Melchior @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 02:01) QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated. Hmm. I laughed when I read this because I'm firstborn and gay. Those "scientists" better rethink/redo their tests.

I like how you put "scientists" in quotations - like a real scientist is right all the time.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Saturday, Dec 24 2011, 15:34)

QUOTE (Chinatown Wars @ Saturday, Dec 24 2011, 18:52) QUOTE (Melchior @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 02:01) QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Dec 21 2011, 10:54) I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference? Parents don't treat all their kids the same. I've read research that suggests that first borns are very unlikely to be gay simply because of how they're treated. Hmm. I laughed when I read this because I'm firstborn and gay. Those "scientists" better rethink/redo their tests. I like how you put "scientists" in quotations - like a real scientist is right all the time.

Perfect proof of how personal experience often clouds the judgements of individual when it comes to discussing personal issues.

[xHIGHWAY_REAPERx]

The endless debate, seems anything that involves religion never-ends and well I feel the need to throw in my input.


I'll keep it simple to answer the stated question:

"Is being Gay/Lesbian Wrong or Right?"

My response: Neither.

I'll go on.


Being LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi or Transgendered) is not wrong nor right, if it was wrong then NONE of use would be our evolution chain would've see it as an error, but yet we still have some people that are LGBT so it's clearly not wrong.

As for being right, we all know it can't be right if it was right there would be no such thing as gender, and we need both sexes to reproduce, I mean seriously no matter how hard two women bash their clams together they aren't going to get a pearl and the only thing you get from guys rubbing sticks together is fire, but does this make it wrong? No.

Throughout history there have been many accounts of homosexuality, even within the Romans one of the most feared armies in the world, at least during there era.

So no being Gay/Lesbian is not wrong, but it isn't right.
It's simply apart of life itself, yes even some animals can be Gay/Lesbian.


---


As for the religious side of the argument, not to disrespect religion but some of you believe is we allow same-sex marriage next we'll allow adult and children partnerships, then animals and man, and even inner family relations.

Now what I'm about to say may anger some so if highly religious view with caution.

We'll target "Adult and Children Partnerships" first:
If you keep up with current events, I'd say this is what many priests want.

"Animals and Man"
Animals do not come into this debate we are talking about humans here.
Stick to your own species.

"Inner Family Relations"
According to your bible aren't we all god's children?
Which would leave us with thousands of years of your "Inner Family Relations" ?



Now for all you offended, remember this only MY opinion although many share it, it doesn't make it right, and that same goes for your opinion so bare that in mind.

This post has been edited by xHIGHWAY_REAPERx on Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 22:39

[Irviding]

That's your argument? No gay marriage because next it'll be people wanting to marry their dogs and cats?

[xHIGHWAY_REAPERx]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 22:22)

That's your argument? No gay marriage because next it'll be people wanting to marry their dogs and cats?

No, I support the LGBT Community.

I breifly read through some post before posting my own and that was one users argument.

[K^2]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Dec 20 2011, 20:54)

I also forgot about this thread. K2, I really just fail to see how homosexuality comes from environmental factors. What about families who have 8 kids and one of them is gay? Is that not the same environment? I mean how much could the environment influence sexual preference?

Your view of environment is too narrow. There could be any number of factors from genetic susceptibility, to specific friendships and relationships, to one-time injuries that define sexuality. Considering the fact that your behavior overall is an outcome of a very complex biochemical system, Chaos Theory is king. There could be any number of bifurcations and catastrophes. This means that even a tiniest difference in environment can lead to different outcomes.

All we can talk about are tendencies. There is a genetic link. That's good to know. But it's definitely not the sole defining factor. In some societies, homosexuality is more prevalent than in others. Genetic differences are nowhere near sufficient to cover these. So there are certainly social factors which are just one component of the environment.

Honestly, the fact that there are identical twins out there with different sexual orientations should tell you everything you need to know. Sometimes, it takes very little to push a person one way or another.

QUOTE (Chinatown Wars @ Saturday, Dec 24 2011, 18:52)

Hmm. I laughed when I read this because I'm firstborn and gay. Those "scientists" better rethink/redo their tests.

There are ~300M people in US, and ~7B in the world. So it's very unlikely that you are from US. But you are from US, so that is wrong. Therefore, entire world consists of Americans.

Learn to logic, please.

This post has been edited by K^2 on Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 23:10

[universetwisters]

im cool with it and im open for anything. However, i really hate people that feel as though they have to climb atop the highest mountain and scream out to the world that theyre gay (justin bieber, blood on the dance floor, killorbekilled, etc.)

like i said, ive got nothing wrong with homosexuality except for people who are total attention whores about it and HOMOPHOBIC BIBLE HUMPING WHITE TRASH REDNECKS who are purley against it (Vormek)

[chestycougth]

QUOTE (Mike Tequeli @ Friday, Jan 15 2010, 23:29)

QUOTE (K^2 @ Jan 15 2010, 22:54) Have you seen gas prices? We can really do with reduced population growth. I wouldn't worry about overpopulation, the growth rate is going down. Also gay people often have kids.

going down?
its risen by 1 billion in just over 10 years!
the growth rate is only going down in countries with good education

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (chestycougth @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 19:41)

QUOTE (Mike Tequeli @ Friday, Jan 15 2010, 23:29) QUOTE (K^2 @ Jan 15 2010, 22:54) Have you seen gas prices? We can really do with reduced population growth. I wouldn't worry about overpopulation, the growth rate is going down. Also gay people often have kids. going down? its risen by 1 billion in just over 10 years! the growth rate is only going down in countries with good education

Actually, the growth rate is going down almost universally. Birth rates are still rising, but the growth in this rise is declining steadily.

[Steinway Hooligan]

i have a friend at school he is gay and his parents sent him to a clinic where gay kids get the help they need to be a good christians, but he had to share a room with this sad kid who tried to kill himself but my friend talked him out of it. then his dad realised being gay isn't wrong or right and took him home

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Steinway Hooligan @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 20:46)

i have a friend at school he is gay and his parents sent him to a clinic where gay kids get the help they need to be a good christians, but he had to share a room with this sad kid who tried to kill himself but my friend talked him out of it. then his dad realised being gay isn't wrong or right and took him home

Can I suggest that you stay out of this forum unless you're going to contribute in the manner of intelligent debate? This isn't somewhere you can spam up, like GC.

[Steinway Hooligan]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 19:48)

QUOTE (Steinway Hooligan @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 20:46) i have a friend at school he is gay and his parents sent him to a clinic where gay kids get the help they need to be a good christians, but he had to share a room with this sad kid who tried to kill himself but my friend talked him out of it. then his dad realised being gay isn't wrong or right and took him home Can I suggest that you stay out of this forum unless you're going to contribute in the manner of intelligent debate? This isn't somewhere you can spam up, like GC.

thanks for the tip. point is I was referencing south park, and i kniow that democrats like yourselves hate that show but man its hilarious and that episode proved a point, even cartoons knopw that being gay/or dyke is ok. i'm trying to calm this debate down.

[Robinski]

QUOTE (Steinway Hooligan @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 20:25)

thanks for the tip. point is I was referencing south park, and i kniow that democrats like yourselves hate that show but man its hilarious and that episode proved a point, even cartoons knopw that being gay/or dyke is ok. i'm trying to calm this debate down.

If you were okay with it would you really use an offensive term to describe gay women?

E: On reflection it might not be up there with words like "faggot" in terms of offensiveness, but it's certainly a term loaded with connotations and a pretty bad history of its usage.

This post has been edited by Robinski on Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 20:35

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Steinway Hooligan @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 21:25)

democrats like yourselves

Sorry, what? By what measure am I a "Democrat"?