Mus' Come A Road Group: Members
Joined: Dec 21, 2010
This makes me feel sick, I find it disgraceful that Western powers are happy to intervene with military power to topple against an unfriendly government but when the Syrians are one of the key exporters of oil to the west, its not cool for us to step in and we should discuss it in the UN.
This will achieve nothing, the Russians will never approve any significant action against their last Arab ally. The western governments know this yet still insist on talks. I understand there could be diplomatic complications but innocent people are dying at the hands of a power crazed maniac who is hell bent on killing people who don't support him. From the limited footage I have seen, this looks like a much more brutal crackdown that what was happening in Libya. Anyway, feel free to discuss what you think about this.
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
Actually, they Syrians export very little oil to the West. We've thus far been unwilling to intervene because Syria are pretty much Russia's largest export customer for military materiel and they'll do whatever the can to maintain that relationship. Whilst it's fair to say they're unlikely to come wading in on the side of Syria in a limited conflict, they'll do anything up to that point. Also, Syria are Iran's mouthpiece in the region and the nation through which it exercises it's power. Even though Iran are also unlikely to get involved in direct confrontation, they're already significantly involved in the conflict there as well as elsewhere in the region- funding and supplying insurgents, et cetera.
Also, there's already a topic discussing this here.
Shoot Looters, Hang Pirates! Group: Members
Joined: Dec 25, 2006
Maybe the Western governments don't get enough 'practice' war games. So like the Spanish Uprising of the last century they feel the need to 'blood' their troops (and test weapons) every chance they get. 17 July 1936 So much for U.N. Pease Keeping.
What a pisser. Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Feb 22, 2011
There's also a difference in that Libya under Gaddafi was much more obvious in the killing of its own people, and they also didn't beat around the bush when it came to saying what they were doing. Gaddafi pretty much stated that they'd go into Benghazi and massacre people, and there was also wide support from the Arab League in imposing the no fly zone.
With Syria though they are much more "diplomatic" in their killings, and they don't outright state what they're doing. They play more games, and they're much smarter in their approach to the suppression. The Arab League also hasn't come out and asked for any kind of no fly zone or military intervention. So there isn't the support for intervention either.
But the potential negative consequences for a Syrian intervention are also much more severe than was the case with Libya. Syrian politics and sectarianism is more complex than in Libya. The decision to intervene, as well as the planning and logistics involved, would require a lot more thought and attention because the potential for it to go wrong is much higher, and as said the consequences much more severe. It would also affect the wider Middle Eastern region much greater than Libya, not just because of the geographical location but because Syria is a regional hub and larger regional player.
I remember a press statement from Bashar al-Assad a few months back that clearly said, "Any Western powers that tries to interfere with what is happening in Syria will feel harsh consequences".
Not exacty word for word but it went along those lines of threats.
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Nov 6, 2008
QUOTE (lil weasel @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 18:43)
Maybe the Western governments don't get enough 'practice' war games. So like the Spanish Uprising of the last century they feel the need to 'blood' their troops (and test weapons) every chance they get.
So much for U.N. Pease Keeping.
What?? The Spanish uprising? What are you talking about?
And to add onto what sivis said, Syria has a much more powerful military (though still nothing compared to the Western powers obviously) and would be a much greater resource draw for the west than they'd want. With Europe's debt crisis right now, and the US going into election season, they are not interested in Syria right now.
Mus' Come A Road Group: Members
Joined: Dec 21, 2010
The fact of the matter is that the guy is putting down a popular rebellion with extreme force. The material facts are almost identical to that of Libya although the circumstances are different. In my opinion, we should treat him the same as we treated Gadaffi. The idea of an "Iron Fist", as established by President Truman, carries significant wait here as it is impossible to negotiate with a totalitarian dictator who only understands violence.
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Nov 6, 2008
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 20:33)
The fact of the matter is that the guy is putting down a popular rebellion with extreme force. The material facts are almost identical to that of Libya although the circumstances are different. In my opinion, we should treat him the same as we treated Gadaffi. The idea of an "Iron Fist", as established by President Truman, carries significant wait here as it is impossible to negotiate with a totalitarian dictator who only understands violence.
The problems with that are listed above though; unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. When you have a Presidential election going on with the most powerful contributor to NATO, and you have a debt crisis with the rest of them, a war would simply not be applicable. I am no military expert by any means, but I don't see Syria going down as easy as Libya did.
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Nov 6, 2008
QUOTE (GTAknowledge @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 22:20)
Message from the Syrian people: STAY OUT OF OUR COUNTRY.
Message from the extremist African rebels: We need some support to take over this country.
I really love how you think that everything in Syria is fine and dandy, when the UN has released a report stating that over 5,000 people have died. Last Monday alone, 60 people were slaughtered by government forces. Will you get your head out of your ass and stop reading Syrian government propaganda sites?
QUOTE (GTAknowledge @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 22:20)
Message from the Syrian people: STAY OUT OF OUR COUNTRY.
Message from the extremist African rebels: We need some support to take over this country.
I really love how you think that everything in Syria is fine and dandy, when the UN has released a report stating that over 5,000 people have died. Last Monday alone, 60 people were slaughtered by government forces. Will you get your head out of your ass and stop reading Syrian government propaganda sites?
Firstly, i have been talking DAILY to my family and friends living in Syria about this situation. Their BIGGEST fear is either the rebels coming to their town OR a US attack/invasion. They are begging the Military to send troops to stay in the town for safety. The rebels are DESPISED by everyone expect for the extremist Muslims who want Assad gone so they can implement a government like that of Saudi Arabia.
Secondly, there is no media propaganda in the Lebanese channels i mostly follow. I have seen interviews with the so called "Free Syrian Army" and they have BLACK AFRICAN soldiers in the background who don't speak Arabic at all. How much more proof do people need to show these rebels are paid for and not fighting for Syria because they are not even Syrian!
Thirdly, when i was last in Syria, everything was fine. Peaceful and great country where everyone lived happy and there was no conflict of religions. All religions were treated equally.
The CNN links you gave are laughable. I really can't comprehend how you believe them so easily.
Reality: Of those 5000+ dead: Over 1,500 are Police and Soldiers have been killed by the rebels. Over 1,000 are Syrian civilians have been kidnapped, murdered, tortured and killed by the rebels. I'd guess 1,000 are also rebels who have been killed.
I just got off the phone with a family-friend in Damascus. They have seen the Western media reports of the situation and are furious! They want help to remove the terrorists, not the other way around as Western media portrays.
You make it sound like it is Assad just going around shooting people randomly. The rebels are the targets. The Syrian constitution gives Assad authority to eliminate or detain anyone deemed as a terrorist. The rebels are terrorists. Many are African and have links with Al-Qaeda. There is no negotiations with them. They are the army's target.
The Syrian army just recently caught out rebels who were sent to blow up a busy market which would have killed at least 500 people and injured thousands. These rebels are VICIOUS MURDERERS and deserve to be wiped out by the Army. Anyone who supports the rebels is INSANE!!
Also, people need to stop percieving Assad as a Tyrant. He's crackdown has been towards the rebels. I don't know many people who met him, apart from Military people, but all have said he is the most genuinely nice person they have ever met.
He walks around Syria, ALONE, without fearing for his safety because he knows the majority love him. I'd like to see Obama walk around his country without his goons and armored cars. He goes out and eats alone, goes to local mechanics to fix his car and lives like the people he governs.
OH LOOK GUYS, A TYRANT:
Recent interview with Assad 2 months ago:
This post has been edited by GTAknowledge on Wednesday, Feb 1 2012, 04:17
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Nov 6, 2008
Aside from propaganda images - the way I see it is you can either trust the UN, the Arab League, and various amateur videos coming out of Syria, or you can trust your friend you called on the phone who says it's all fine and dandy. You choose the latter, so good luck. Obviously you don't know what a source is.
Aside from propaganda images - the way I see it is you can either trust the UN, the Arab League, and various amateur videos coming out of Syria, or you can trust your friend you called on the phone who says it's all fine and dandy. You choose the latter, so good luck. Obviously you don't know what a source is.
You still don't understand. It's not just my "friend". If i made a list of people i closely know living in Syria, it would be over 150. Some are close family.
My sources:
- Family and Friends living INSIDE Syria and their relatives who live near me now. They are SEEING this unfold everyday. - Arabic interviews, reports, articles which HAVE NOT been manipulated by Western media. RAW footage of events. - My personal experience having traveled in the country not so long ago and what i witnessed.
lol at "your friend on phone".
And NO WAY will i trust the Arab League LMAO. How dumb are you? You think they wouldn't lie to you? You think they care to give you the truth? They rely on people like you to defend their lies. haha.
One of the Arab league supervisors who was in Syria did an interview while in there. He basically said: The troubles here are mainly caused by the rebels. They are not allowing peace and we can see why the Syrian Army is acting the way it is.
What happens after he said that.....Arab league suspends Syria mission. They didn't like the truth. LOL.
Everyday i watch the TV, there are rallies like this. Everyday it is in a different town/city. And every time there is over 500,000 people attending, averaging 1,000,000. For a country of 20 million, there have been already over 10 million people who have marched in support all in different cities.
Syria:
2,300 yard-long flag for Assad (Again over 1,000,000 attended):
Here in Melbourne, Australia:
Sydney, Australia:
Whitehouse:
New York:
Los Angles:
Chicago:
Hundreds more in other countries, but you get the point. Only country's that seems divided on Assad is England and Canada. lol. As long as the majority of Syrians support Assad, the US should stay out and mind their own business. All the anti-assad rally's in Syria are either of only a few thousand or paid for by the opposition.
All Syrians here, Muslim or Christian support Assad, and so do their families in Syria. Never have i met anyone who doesn't support Assad. Maybe one day i will, but until then i am strongly convinced that everything the media is saying about Assad's support falling is a lie.
This post has been edited by GTAknowledge on Wednesday, Feb 1 2012, 05:51
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
Joined: Nov 6, 2008
Maybe they suspended it because they didn't want their inspectors getting blown up. Did you ever consider that? Why are your views so clouded by propaganda? This all stems from people peacefully protesting a man who has been running his government with a suspended constitution for decades, simply asking for more rights. When he began to execute protestors, they organized an army to rebel against him. How hard is that to understand for you? Why do you act as if everything is happy daisy flowers over there?
Maybe they suspended it because they didn't want their inspectors getting blown up. Did you ever consider that? Why are your views so clouded by propaganda? This all stems from people peacefully protesting a man who has been running his government with a suspended constitution for decades, simply asking for more rights. When he began to execute protestors, they organized an army to rebel against him. How hard is that to understand for you? Why do you act as if everything is happy daisy flowers over there?
Many of the inspectors were staying in 5 star hotels in Damascus. That city is safe at the moment as the military presence has kept the terrorists out. They left because they saw the truth.
And he didn't execute protestors. You are just forwarding information the media tells you. At the point when this all began, no outside media had access to what was really going on. The "army" that is rebelling against him is strongly made up of Africans and previous Libyan rebels. When these rebels began surrounding themselves between protestors, that's when protestors began to be killed.
Assad gave orders to go after the rebels. It is near impossible to get and not others when they surround themselves in the towns who are on their side. Assad has said he gave NO orders to attack protestors.
And i think it is clear that their is chaos in the country. And it is mainly caused by the rebels. They are walking around with AK-47's and rocket launchers LMAO. You expect the military to tolerate this?
Ask yourself this:
If in the US, right now, people began protesting and were armed. Let's say 20,000 people surrounded the white house and started firing shots into the sky and violently trying to take over the Whithouse.
Next, add to this armed African extremist Muslim rebels (who are not US citizens, illegally entered) joined these protests and set up camp around them. These rebels have wondered the streets of Washington kidnapping people, raping women and climbing on apartment rooftops and start to sniper down random civilians. They have also started bombing busy places and walk around in crowded areas with ROCKET LAUNCHERS and terrorize people. Dead bodies are everywhere on the streets.
These crowds and rebels grow. They are taking over more towns and cities and have began massive killings of people opposed to them (Average Americans).
What does Obama do? How does the military react to the country possibly being taken over by them and the people who support these acts?
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
GTAKnoweldge, I seriously suggest you just give up. It's evident that you live in some kind of dream world where everyone's your best chum and where despots are cuddly toys. It doesn't do your case any favours. You've also consistently failed to provide any evidence to support your cause from sources other than propaganda videos images. These provide absolutely no evidence to substantiate your cause; in fact, all they do is detract from your argument and make it appear as if it's based on nothing other than rhetoric and obvious fallacies. The reason the inspectorate pulled out was partly down to a lack of transparency on the Syrian authorities side, and partly because they've seen all they need to. One only needs read some of the various statements released by the staff of the AU mission to see this. Constant shepherding of independent monitors, no freedom to view areas that weren't designated and guided like tours by Syrian authorities, and even then many of the statements have been vocal about the level of violence used to crush what is (according to the AU) largely peaceful protest. I just have no idea where you get these absurd fictions from.
If Syria is so peaceful, and the rebels so violent, then why has the AU spend the last month chomping the bit for an intervention on the side of the rebels?
This post has been edited by sivispacem on Wednesday, Feb 1 2012, 07:50
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
