[Booze T]

QUOTE (AndyGanteks @ Friday, Jan 6 2012, 02:47)

QUOTE (Booze) - A time frame of two months for each encounter should be set. For example, all the rounds between two teams must be played in March and/or April. A suggestion for a date AND time should be answered with another within a week. If a team fails to counter a suggestion within that time frame and the match hasn't taken place by the end of April, that team loses by forfeit. If counter-suggestions were made on time, each time, by both teams and the match still hasn't taken place by the end of April, the team that made the first attempt to arrange a match by suggesting a date and time gets the win. In other words, the responsibility for the match happening falls on the team that didn't take first initiative. The only problem with your sugg is this: 'I'f counter-suggestions were made on time, each time, by both teams and the match still hasn't taken place by the end of April, the team that made the first attempt to arrange a match by suggesting a date and time gets the win. In other words, the responsibility for the match happening falls on the team that didn't take first initiative.'' This could be a problem, and very biased. See, for an example, we got a match between Firm and BCF. So Firm asks for the match at 12:00, and BCF american time zone people wake up at 17:00 UK, and they propose the match then. Eventually, it doesn't get done, so what am i supposed to do, give the win to the Firm for asking for the match 5 hours before. That just isn't right In this case, i'd either add a 1:1 draw, or a 0:0 draw, so 0 points for both gangs who despite wanting, weren't able to do the match. Or maybe negative points? I remember ajbns87 suggested that.

You're talking about a day and night cycle here. Since both gangs can suggest matches as early as they want to (or maybe from the official start of the league), none of them really have an advantage or disadvantage. The BCF could've suggested the match at 5:00 UK time, while the Firm was still asleep. Or a week before. We're all living in the same moment after all, regardless of our time zones.
Really, I strongly disagree with your objections here. The aim of this rule is to encourage gangs to actually play the matches, even if the outcome seems set in stone (because of which the team that thinks they may lose will try to keep postponing the match and with your suggestion, they could get a tie out of that by doing so).

QUOTE (AndyGanteks @ Friday, Jan 6 2012, 02:47)

Either way, i'm opening this up for discussion as well. WHAT TO DO IF BOTH GANGS WANT, BUT FAIL TO DO THE MATCH IN THE REQUIRED TIME?

My suggestion applies here as well. 2 months should be long enough to arrange a match, especially if you allow the gangs to start scheduling even before then.

This post has been edited by Booze T on Sunday, Jan 8 2012, 11:30

[.Trooper.]

QUOTE (AJ)

- Trooper , I'm just wanting the GL to be as good as it can, gangs pulling out of this like Bianco Crime Family / mrwhite goes against that, so I don't see why people can't question other gangs? Quite what is the point of being in a "gang" and not actually participating in events like this, makes no sense to me! At least the Firm has signed up. Maybe BCF are only on the forum to post spammy messages to each other  !

I see your point AJ, but it isn't exactly justified. I never looked into BCF, but just looking at the last page of their topic I can see that they still play GTA... So there isn't any problem there. Many gangs on the forum are not too active on GTA anymore, considering how long it has been out and the fact that GTA V has been released.

All I'm saying is... Perhaps BCF do not like competitive matches? Perhaps they are scared to lose because they suck? Perhaps they do not think the event will work? Perhaps they know they will not be able to participate in many matches so there is not much point in them joining? I do not know if any of these are true, but I do know that whatever reason they have for not joining up, they don't deserve to be pestered about it... I don't see any rules saying you must join up to every GL every year...

Once again Andy, nice effort on 2012 GL. I'm glad to see the long awaited changes and new changes have been implemented.

If the match isn't completed when it should be, it should be rescheduled. In my opinion 2 months is way too long. I think you allow a reschedule twice, if it still doesn't happen maybe a points reduction?

This post has been edited by .Trooper. on Sunday, Jan 8 2012, 11:32

[Mr White0161]

I wanted to keep my mouth shut and I didn't want to make a big stink over this but quite honestly I don't much care for this event. Others are believing to be a contributing active gang here you must play in events which makes no sense in any rational mind. The world does not revolve around events, and it especially does not revolve around this one. Being apart of a GTA Gang doesn't mean do matches every other day, especially do a line of matches just to get a signature saying you won or came in second or third. Being apart of a gang is about hanging out, having a good a time, socializing with your fellow gang members in-game on daily/nightly bases,running the streets of LC, occasionally fighting randoms or in the odd event of an external crew. That is being in a gang, going out there and experiencing GTA. Not sitting here arranging matches. Say what you will about me and my gang because we made a conscious decision of not being apart of your event. Main reason for not wanting to be apart of this, there is too much bullsh*t involved and that is continually growing.

I have nothing wrong with being competitive, but in my mind it's only about 5% of being in a GTA gang. But if people wish to challenge me and my gang to a match then by all means they can stop by and ask for themselves. Now the other 95% is divided into all those things I had previously listed off. You may call my gangs post 'spammy' but if you actually read it almost every post is reflecting on what we just did in GTA. Or what we are going to do in GTA. Because that is what it's all about, GTA. Nothing more, nothing less. What we choose to do on GTA is completely up to us. So I'm going to say this one more time. Please remove BCF from the GL roster and best of luck to all those who remain and or join the league

[Pedochu]

Don, my advice was to hear out Doc's idea of Gang League if it came to fruition. I know your reasons for pulling us out of this are personal, which make sense, but I know Artfull is pretty upset so you should talk to him. AJ, you're 100% welcome to stop by anytime and check the spam content, not sure where you're coming from. Feel free to PM me.

[Mati]

@MrWhite: I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you're so negative about it and give us a speech about the BCF leaving this event. If you want to abandon this event then just say it, then you're scratched from the list. You forgot that every single gang is different and has it's own different goals. There are gangs out here that are there for the competitiveness and want to beat other gangs in some classical matches. This event is a perfect opportunity to climb leaderboards and to get to know and fight other gangs.
I'm not trying to bash or rant anybody here, I just don't see the point of writing down a few speeches instead of simply saying that you won't join the event this year. Let the others have their fun. Every gang sees matches or competition-typed events with different glasses and it should stay that way. Personally, I haven't joined this event because I feel that we have to. Matches are important to us, we love the competitiveness and fights with other gangs. So no, we're not joining because of a mainstream.

[AndyGanteks]

I've got back from my holiday lads.
I'll read posts and do the updates tomorrow, until then if anyone has any more additions, say them!

[Mr White0161]

Mati the only reason I gave the speech is because I kindly ask BCF to be taken down off the leader board on the first page but all that I've gotten after that is just harassment over why I'm leaving. Rather then respecting my decision and carrying on with your day. All I've done is be respectful and civil but everyone feels the need to question my actions. I didn't expect it to be this gods damn difficult to say I don't want to be in GL. In-fact I've said it 4times now. So for the fifth time, please stop questioning my decision and please removed BCF from the leader boards, best of luck to all he gangs that are going to be partaking.

[ajbns87]

Ok thats fair enough, I never met to harrass or pester you, I just wanted to know the reasons why. You see "gangs" very differently from myself.

Also , Andy's used images to show the rosters / leagues, so its not as simple as just deleting some html tables / text, but I'm sure he'll remove / update when he gets chance.

[ZDANZ96]

QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Monday, Jan 9 2012, 06:31)

Ok thats fair enough, I never met to harrass or pester you, I just wanted to know the reasons why. You see "gangs" very differently from myself. Also , Andy's used images to show the rosters / leagues, so its not as simple as just deleting some html tables / text, but I'm sure he'll remove / update when he gets chance.

There is no problem here Aj, and I think I am the only who know why they want their name removed from the GL roster.

Happens that some gangs here, especially from the Xbox side, don't have enough skill on gta or preffer Assasinations or Roleplays rather than playing competitive modes, such as: TDM, TMW, CnC or TW. The reason? It isn't really hard to analyze it. Just read every gang's topic, and you will eventually know what is going on.

Some gangs just failed in the GL last year, being totally massacred by better gangs. These gangs can only beat amateur ones, external from GtaForums. They usually complain with better players saying that they have turbos or are hacking? Who knows? Only themselves. But you can see who is legit and who isn't just by watching their behavior in other places.

Come on! Do you guys think I don't read every single damn topic here? Some things are quite obvious. And I wouldn't be surprised by the fact that I could match the lack of skill at making decent posts, with the lack of skill in gaming.

Watch out.

[docrikowski]

Let's not go too off topic, ok?
The reason why a gang will or won't participate in the GL it's nobody's business.
Post suggestions on rules and stay on topic.

[fgcarva1]

QUOTE (Pedochu @ Sunday, Jan 8 2012, 18:26)

Don, my advice was to hear out Doc's idea of Gang League if it came to fruition. I know your reasons for pulling us out of this are personal, which make sense, but I know Artfull is pretty upset so you should talk to him.

Artfull ain't the only one... we trained so hard...

But going back on topic, even though I am not a part of this event anymore, I think the idea of removing the DLCs is fair and agree with it 100%. As for the cup, why not let it start sooner so there won't be any match-scheduling issues at the end of the year?

Good luck with this, unfortunately I won't have the chance to participate this year, but I will keep up with the matches. Maybe add some rules to allow people to spectate? It can be done.

[XxArtfullxX]

Yeah I am annoyed if crome was don he would have listened to the families opinion.

[Mr.Funny12]

I don't mean to start arguements here but why (AJ&ZDANZ) so hurt over the Biancos loeaving. Your not even on the xbox side of things? All you've done is try your best to make fun of us and I don't see what your getting at?

White simply asked to be removed, I myself didn't think it'd be a big deal.

[Belgium bagel]

@Zdanz96
I agree the xbox side of gangs are filled with the "Assassination" Gangs rather than TDM gangs. This saddens me but isn't the reason i'm here. I wish for TSA or The Soviet army to participate in GL 2012. The problem lies with one of the Bianco members denying TSA the official Status for gangs even though we have 5 active ready to play members that don't care to spam our topic as much as 'Some' people.
We do have over 20 pages and are here to stay on the forums and are asking to be put on the list and play even though we aren't 'Offical' (This is only an Xbox 360 gang)

[The Soviet Army]

Gang Name: The Soviet Army
Gang Tag: TSA
Gang Color : Red (If not token and if it is token then use purple)
Gang Logo:
Gang Roster: TSA LEADER, TSA Bagel, XxDillon254xX, and TSA ONI
Systems competing (PS3, 360, PC): 360

[xHIGHWAY_REAPERx]

So when does The Gang League start?

I mean I know we can join late but when does it actually start?

EDIT:
Nevermind noticed there isn't an actual date.

This post has been edited by xHIGHWAY_REAPERx on Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 03:48

[fgcarva1]

QUOTE (Belgium bagel @ Monday, Jan 9 2012, 23:02)

The problem lies with one of the Bianco members denying TSA the official Status for gangs even though we have 5 active ready to play members that don't care to spam our topic as much as 'Some' people. We do have over 20 pages and are here to stay on the forums and are asking to be put on the list and play even though we aren't 'Offical' (This is only an Xbox 360 gang)

Ouch, that's not a very nice attack towards my Gangs page. I was contacted by your leader who said you only had 3 active members on GTAForums, you, TSA Leader and Dillo, all others were outsiders who did not have GTAForums accounts. I still have the message saved if you want me to forward it to you. I told TSA Leader to contact me once more members joined the forums, I am still waiting to receive a PM from him.

If you have a problem with my gang, that's fine, but I have never acted biased on my Gangs page, have never received accusations of being biased, even by your very own leader. I don't see why you are always so butthurt by me, personally I have never played with you, and I don't plan to, so keep your ridiculous accusations to yourself.

As for GL, the BCF is out, even if a lot of our members disagree with it, it doesn't matter. It was our leader's decision, so please, keep all of your opinions to yourselves, I hope we can all end up this petty discussion.

[AndyGanteks]

GL/GC 2012 Update

Would've updated this a few days ago, but i thought i'd hear more suggestions if i waited a bit more, i guess it should have been vice-versa.
Anyway, change-log:

- Added The Firm to the 360 League
- @Sweaty suggestions

QUOTE

What are the rules on heli's & RPG's btw? I know a few people who are very unclear about it including myself.

RPG's are used as a part of the powerful weapon setting so they're ok in that i believe, and i don't think anybody is that nooby to use just them as the preferred weapon setting (Just Rockets, or Melee, or similar).
As for helicopters, i feel like i should officialize this rule just a bit, since many people requested so.
I will not ban choppers on IV like i did on EFLC, but like somebody(Booze i think) suggested before, i will restrict it to only 1 heli/pilot in air per gang. It's a good and fair suggestion.
To add to that, and make things more smooth, before every match, two gangs should agree with each other will they use the heli's in the round together with other vehicles, or will their fight be only on ground level.

- @Booze
I'm still a bit confused about your suggestion a bit when both gangs are interested but fail to organize it, or one of them fails on purpose, to hurt others campaign. I think that's a bigger issue then anything else here.

About this,

QUOTE

2 months should be long enough to arrange a match, especially if you allow the gangs to start scheduling even before then.

Yeah, that is long enough and a good suggestion, but how much time there will be for each match, and how much matches there will be will depend on how much gangs sign up for GL 2012.
I'm thinking a month will be enough for a match, as i'm expecting 5-6 PS3 gangs, 7-10 xbox gangs and 2 pc gangs.
With that(and with xbox gangs having issues with the DLC)...

For the 360, gangs would play 1 home and 1 away match with every gang, for a total of 14-20, and they will choose between IV/LaD/BoGT, so there won't be any restriction, that you have to play on EFLC, as Sweaty & Jedi requested it.

However. (@Sweaty again) If not a single match is played at the end of the year on EFLC games, like last year i will have to align the EFLC Awards to whoever won the IV Awards...That's why i wanted to motivate gangs to play a bit more on EFLC this year, at least with the Gang Cup in a very simple and fair best-of format. GTA MP isn't only IV and isn't only TDM or Races, this ain't CoD or GT, it's GTA, and this is meant to be an event that tests gangs in various team modes. This isn't complicating, it's just making things more interesting!

For the PS3, we would have 4 matches with every gang, so 5-6x4 = 20-24 matches for every gang. 2 home and 2 away matches with each gang, where 1 home and 1 away would be on EFLC.

For the PC, we could since it's 2 gangs, i guess to play a bit less duels. 3x3=9 probably.

With that being said, i'm officially inviting the following gangs to sign up, if they want to.

360: Mayans MC, North Holland Hustlers, Wolfen MC, Westies, Ex-Military, Mancini Crime Family, Clemente Family
PS3: Cappadona, Highway Reapers MC
As well as the BCF, they can re-join at any time.
I'll deal with their removal, once the arrivals are completed. The start of the matches will be on February 1st the latest.
Match list will be posted as soon as the applications of new gangs are done.

- Added The Soviet Army too to the gang league 360 side.
- To Capadonna and Highway Reapers, you must fill the application to join GL 2012 PS3's League officially.
- I've also sorted out the GL & GC Awards.

1st posts are updated.
Once i see which of the invited gangs will join, i will post the schedule and match list and a calendar (it'll be too WIP, and everyone can suggest how and what). Then we'll discuss it, and the match rules a bit more, and once that is done, by 1st February, surely not later, the matches will start.

[Booze T]

QUOTE (AndyGanteks @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 19:04)

- @Booze I'm still a bit confused about your suggestion a bit when both gangs are interested but fail to organize it, or one of them fails on purpose, to hurt others campaign. I think that's a bigger issue then anything else here.

"Failing to organize" will occur after these scenarios:

• Team 1 suggests a date, which is no good for team 2. Then, within the time-frame of a week, team 2 suggests another date, which is no good for team 1. Then, within the time-frame, team 1 suggests another date and so on. If, after two months, the two teams could not agree on a date, the win will go to the team that suggested a date first (in this case team 1).
In this scenario, during the course of two months, team 1 will have suggested 5 or 6 dates (more if team 2 is quick to suggest another date). That's 5 or 6 dates for team 2 to choose from. I think it would be realistic to say that at least 1 out of the 5 or 6 dates should be convenient for team 2. The only way for team 1 to cheat a win out of this would be to keep suggesting dates that they know would be inconvenient for team 2. We could add an additional rule that states that each team cannot suggest a time that would be inconvenient for the other team's timezone (say, from 2 am - 12:00 noon), which might not be a bad idea. This will make things more complicated, but I think the event organizer(s) should be able to keep track of things.

• Team 1 suggests a date, which is no good for team 2. Team 2 suggests a date within the the time-frame, which is no good for team 1. Team 1 then suggests another date more than a week after team 2's last suggestion (so not inside the given time-frame). If both teams from then on keep suggesting dates within the time-frame and fail to agree on a date, team 2 will get the win (because team 1 was too late with one of their suggestions). This outcome will count as long as team 1 was too late more often than team 2 was.
Team 2 has no influence on team 1 being on time with their suggestions, so there's no way team 2 could cheat their way into a win using this rule.

• The number of times both teams were too late with their suggestions is equal. In this case the win will go to the team that made the first suggestion, team 1.
Team 1 has no influence on team 2 being on time with their suggestions, so there's no way team 1 could cheat their way into a win using this rule.

Basically, you can't fail on purpose to hurt the other one's "campaign", because if you do, the other team gets the win.
It might be good to add to this that both teams will have to have at least 2 players ready on the agreed upon date and time. If one team is present and the other one is still not present 15 minutes after the agreed upon time, that team will lose by forfeit. The team that was present will have to provide some sort of proof, or maybe the GL host or one of the hosts could be present to determine the forfeit.
If both teams fail to show on time, both teams have the right to request a re-schedule. Re-scheduling will happen in the regular way, with the same ultimate deadline and the same rules.

There's one other scenario that would fall under "failing to organize" which is this:

• Both teams do not suggest any date at all. In this case, both teams will be disqualified.
There will be no more chances later on in the year, to prevent end-of-the-year stress and panic.

QUOTE (AndyGanteks @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 19:04)

Yeah, that is long enough and a good suggestion, but how much time there will be for each match, and how much matches there will be will depend on how much gangs sign up for GL 2012.

Depending on when we get this going we'll have 5 x 2 months (if scheduling starts in March). That accomodates for 6 gangs in total on one table. We can have more gangs participate by having gangs schedule two matches during some or all of those months.

I would like to make another (unrelated) suggestion:

Please organize the rules into categories and preferably a table of contents with links. This will make it easier to look up certain rules.

I would also like to bring this rule under attention (again):

QUOTE (AndyGanteks @ Wednesday, Jan 4 2012, 15:26)

Banned members can't take part in matches. If one was found playing, the result of that match will be changed to 0:2 for the opposing team no matter what the original result was. Same goes to members who don't have GTAF accounts, or are on the gang roster, but without a GTAF account.

I think this rule should be stricter (people could still abuse this rule by bringing in non-GTAF members, have them sign up and add them to the roster, only for them to never visit this place again).
I still think my original suggestion would be better:

QUOTE (Booze T @ Thursday, Jan 5 2012, 11:13)

My suggestion: gangmembers are only eligible to play if they are on the roster and have at least 40 posts in their gang's topic.

Maybe we can bring the number of posts down to 30 or 20, but they should be able to prove that they're active on GTAForums and post count is the only way.
Whichever round an illegal player played in should be won by the other team. If both teams play with one or more illegal players, they should both receive 0 points and a loss.

This post has been edited by Booze T on Friday, Jan 20 2012, 23:38

[ajbns87]

Great suggestions Booze

However the last point about banned members or bringing in a player to your gang, who is not part of the forum is understandable, but I think it needs to relaxed, rather than strictly followed.

I can only speak for the ps3 side of things, and whilst I do everything to encourage all members of the Damned to post / become part of the forum / community as a whole, it's just not in their interests! Maybe the Xbox360 side of things is different, perhaps some of the gangs on your side, will potentially exploit this rule and suddenly recruit some ridiculously good player, who has never played with them before or visited the forum!

To an extent , the rule would only benefit the gangs who have existed and been part of this forum for a long time (Like the AoD). Secondly internet forums are not something every person enjoys being a part of, (The Damned MC and other new ps3 gangs have members yet to officially sign up to the forum, but have been playing together for significant period of time).
Thirdly, if the rule was strictly applied. There would be nothing stopping players from then registering, then posting a load of spam ( to reach the required post count ) and then never returning anyway!

Solution

My suggestion , would be that before any gangs apply or take part in this event, they must firstly submit a list of players that will be taking part for their gang.

If during the event, a new player is then recruited, they must then update that list within a certain period of time before their next game i.e. 7 - 14 days.

If a gang then decides to play a match with a player that wasn't initially listed, they forfeit the match.

----

Look forward to this finally beginning.