[Ziggy455]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 01:13)

Exactly - instead of living in the present and recognizing that your country could exercise strong influence over the world, it seems to be in the past notion that they own the world still.

I live in the United Kingdom, in the heart of the recession, constant flux of illegal immigrants and rife crime.

We might as well abandon ship now. While we still have the chance, this country is f*cked.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 18:53)

constant flux of illegal immigrants

Not really, no.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 02:36)

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 18:53) constant flux of illegal immigrants Not really, no.

Indeed. Straw man argument, put forward by pathetic, moronic and bigoted idiots.

[illegal_luggage]

Well legal or not, there isn't enough room. I don't think the UK is in decline but it could improve a lot by sorting out rundown areas. I don't know how that could be achieved though, there was a new council house development a mile away from me and that became rough after only a few years.

[CheesyJ]

I think it's true when people say that Britain has been in decline for a long time, probably since the last century. The Victorian era is long gone, and whatever way you look at it, Britain's not a world superpower like it used to be.

I'm no genius on politics, and it's not something I can claim to have a massive interest in, but from my observations, we've just not got anyone out there who really knows what they're doing and is willing to take risks to save the country. All of the politicians can talk to save the country, but there's no substance there. The country needs someone who can get things done, instead of someone who says they can get things done.

[Rown]

It's interesting to read the opinions here as they sound like they could be coming from somewhere in the states. All we're known for anymore is blowing sh*t up. There seems to be a trend of malaise across the anglo world and I'd imagine further still. With supremacists and ultra-nationalists popping up from Bristol to Moscow, and Montana to Baghdad cultural insecurity is rampant. On a societal level people seem to be upset with their circumstances, frustrated by a lack of fulfillment in life.
Hopefully this tunnel has an exit nearby. Too dark and dreary otherwise.

Rown

[vinnygorgeous]

QUOTE (Typhus @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:39)

The government gives people so much liberty that the common man now stands on his soapbox questioning the need for that government. Questioning the very people who safeguard his freedom. People want more accountability, they want more control, more, more, more. And why? Because they honestly feel entitled to have a real say in the political process. Like a greedy, spoiled child they cry for things they have not earned.

People paid a very heavy price for political participation, are you saying that every generation should have to pay the price in blood all over again just so they don’t become complacent?

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 23:53)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 01:13) Exactly - instead of living in the present and recognizing that your country could exercise strong influence over the world, it seems to be in the past notion that they own the world still. I live in the United Kingdom, in the heart of the recession, constant flux of illegal immigrants and rife crime. We might as well abandon ship now. While we still have the chance, this country is f*cked.

To me, it sounds like you live in the world of media, rather than in the heart of the UK. Immigration is a problem, but mainly due to the size of this country, rather than anything else. The major problem is, as I brought up in my last topic, is that no Government dare speaks out about immigration due to fear.

I've lived in plenty of areas that have now become 'Ghost Towns'; High Streets empty and boarded up, full streets boarded up and nothing being done to help the situation. The main problem is, no-one has the money to spend on doing these areas up anymore, and this is speaking from personal experience.

The rest of Europe has seen recession, and it's not long before it starts happening here.

One of the major situations in this country is that we are failing the youth, and instead of trying to help this generation, we sit back and blame them for everything that goes wrong in this country. There were 2 major divides when the Riots happened last year; some people blamed it on some idiots who just wanted to rampage and make some money, whereas others see it as this 'Forgotten Generation' fed up of being ignored and pushed under the carpet. Kids have no guidance in their life, and once we leave school, it's upto us on our own. I think in my whole time at school, I had one career guidance lesson... Not all young people are idiots, and some see the sorry state of politics that run this country, where people we are meant to trust with the running of this country are swindling money and spending it on whatever they want, and covering every major problem up with something else.

When I was growing up, kids had everything to give them a good upbringing. Now we live in a bubble-wrapped nation, so over-run by Health & Safety and PC.

We need a Government who are realists, and start reaching out to all these Forgotten people.

[Typhus]

QUOTE (vinnygorgeous @ Tuesday, Feb 28 2012, 20:58)

QUOTE (Typhus @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:39) The government gives people so much liberty that the common man now stands on his soapbox questioning the need for that government. Questioning the very people who safeguard his freedom. People want more accountability, they want more control, more, more, more. And why? Because they honestly feel entitled to have a real say in the political process. Like a greedy, spoiled child they cry for things they have not earned. People paid a very heavy price for political participation, are you saying that every generation should have to pay the price in blood all over again just so they don’t become complacent?

You're right, many years ago our people fought and clawed for every bit of freedom we now enjoy. They attained that freedom through dedication, sound reasoning and obstinance. And now look at us. Look at what we've become, look how apathetic the working classes have become. The working classes who confine their political discourse to slurs against immigrants.

You ask me if we need to pay in blood to avoid becoming complacent. No, we should not kill each other, we're not barbarians after all. But freedom can only be maintained through constant struggle, constant conflict.
Look how many people disagree with immigration, yet these people have no voice, they are painted as Nazis and crackpots.
The vast majority who disagree with immigration have NO say in it. The vast majority of people who disagree with the lax treatment of criminals have NO say in it.
And who's to blame? The government? Or maybe, just maybe, it's the people themselves. Maybe they deserve to be ignored for their apathy and willing toleration of corruption and deceit.

I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as they have their pornography and football, they couldn't give a sh*t if we were attacked by Martians. I have nothing but contempt for them. I only wish I could march them off a cliff like the pathetic lemmings they are and watch them smash onto the rocks below, one by one.

This post has been edited by Typhus on Monday, Apr 16 2012, 19:04

[John The Grudge]

I'm not bothered about us leading the world in anything. I just want there to be jobs for everybody and everybody to want a job. Fair wages and the ability for people on the lowest wages to live comfortably. Nobody should feel like anybody is getting a free meal ticket.

If we can sort those things then I'll be satisfied. I have little faith though. I will say that I have more faith in the Conservatives/Lib Dems than I ever will in Labour. I believe that the government, with the latest budget, has taken steps that could lead to there being many more jobs available in the UK.

I agree with what Typhus said. Give them their football and they couldn't give a sh*t what happens to this country. However if tabloids like the Daily Star or The Sun started to responsibly report the news and offer unbiased reports on politics then the people would take an interest.

They need to care about the world beyond their front door. A look at British tabloids and it's disturbing the poison that people are being fed. It's all hate and lies and it's the lense through which many people see the world. These people are voting and as such politicians adjust their policies to win their votes.

This post has been edited by John The Grudge on Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 08:23

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44)

I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed.

What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot.

@John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 16:54)

QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44) I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed. What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot. @John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance.

That's because your views were racist, and if I recall you were laughed out of the topic by your fellow Brits due to your comments.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 23:02)

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 16:54) QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44) I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed. What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot. @John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance. That's because your views were racist, and if I recall you were laughed out of the topic by your fellow Brits due to your comments.

I actually believe that I wasn't 'laughed out of my topic' by my fellow Brits, but was presented with a good debate, of which I was able to provide a well presented comeback to and further progress the debate. And no, none of the points I made were racist at all...but please, please find me some evidence to back up your post. I think you'll find I'm one of the least racist people you'll come across, especially for someone who comes from the city I come from.

Yet again, I see you're trolling me in a topic about the UK.

Well there's a shock...you failed to back your pathetic comment up.

This post has been edited by Butters 2011 on Thursday, Apr 19 2012, 23:08

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 18:36)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 23:02) QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 16:54) QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44) I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed. What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot. @John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance. That's because your views were racist, and if I recall you were laughed out of the topic by your fellow Brits due to your comments. I actually believe that I wasn't 'laughed out of my topic' by my fellow Brits, but was presented with a good debate, of which I was able to provide a well presented comeback to and further progress the debate. And no, none of the points I made were racist at all...but please, please find me some evidence to back up your post. I think you'll find I'm one of the least racist people you'll come across, especially for someone who comes from the city I come from. Yet again, I see you're trolling me in a topic about the UK. Well there's a shock...you failed to back your pathetic comment up.

The evidence is all in that topic man. You were making point after point of unsubstantiated nonsense about immigrants in the UK. Let me tell you, as an outside observer looking in your country, immigration, be it legal or illegal, is probably one of, and if not the smallest issue you guys over there should be concerned with right now.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 03:00)

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 18:36) QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 23:02) QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 16:54) QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44) I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed. What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot. @John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance. That's because your views were racist, and if I recall you were laughed out of the topic by your fellow Brits due to your comments. I actually believe that I wasn't 'laughed out of my topic' by my fellow Brits, but was presented with a good debate, of which I was able to provide a well presented comeback to and further progress the debate. And no, none of the points I made were racist at all...but please, please find me some evidence to back up your post. I think you'll find I'm one of the least racist people you'll come across, especially for someone who comes from the city I come from. Yet again, I see you're trolling me in a topic about the UK. Well there's a shock...you failed to back your pathetic comment up. The evidence is all in that topic man. You were making point after point of unsubstantiated nonsense about immigrants in the UK. Let me tell you, as an outside observer looking in your country, immigration, be it legal or illegal, is probably one of, and if not the smallest issue you guys over there should be concerned with right now.

But exactly, you're an outsider and the only f*cking way of you having any idea of what goes on over here is from what you read in the media. Immigration is a subject that gets brought up quite often in the news over here, from crime and whatnot through to how their 'stealing our jobs'. Immigration is a massive subject over here, and anyone who denies it has no f*cking clue to the reality of this country...just like you, who seems to just want to troll me with your pathetic comments. I never stated that it was the biggest subject over here, but the reality is, it's a subject that still gets brought about.

I've read through the previous topic, and have yet to see any member 'laughing at me', so as I said, please, quote the posts that have members laughing at what I have written...but in the meantime, kindly shut the f*ck up on a subject you clearly have no idea on. Branding me a racist...f*ck me, you're just an example of how pathetic some people are in this world, where one mention of 'foreigners getting favoured' instantly makes you racist.

You've come onto this forum and instantly decided to pick me out as a member to troll, not even knowing me or anything, and all you have done is shown how much of a f*cking idiot you really are.

Think you should first of all, read about the city that I come from, then come back and have an intelligent conversation with me.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 17:48)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 03:00) QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 18:36) QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 23:02) QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Tuesday, Apr 17 2012, 16:54) QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 18:44) I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed. What? And instantly get branded like everyone else does when bringing this subject up? This is why we have a Government who tries to brush it all under the carpet, as I was discussing in my topic, which surprise, surprise, resulted in me being branded racist and whatnot. @John...yet another person who thinks it's cool to attack the tabloid papers for their views, when in fact, papers like the DM and DE are far worse when it comes to their political stance. That's because your views were racist, and if I recall you were laughed out of the topic by your fellow Brits due to your comments. I actually believe that I wasn't 'laughed out of my topic' by my fellow Brits, but was presented with a good debate, of which I was able to provide a well presented comeback to and further progress the debate. And no, none of the points I made were racist at all...but please, please find me some evidence to back up your post. I think you'll find I'm one of the least racist people you'll come across, especially for someone who comes from the city I come from. Yet again, I see you're trolling me in a topic about the UK. Well there's a shock...you failed to back your pathetic comment up. The evidence is all in that topic man. You were making point after point of unsubstantiated nonsense about immigrants in the UK. Let me tell you, as an outside observer looking in your country, immigration, be it legal or illegal, is probably one of, and if not the smallest issue you guys over there should be concerned with right now. But exactly, you're an outsider and the only f*cking way of you having any idea of what goes on over here is from what you read in the media. Immigration is a subject that gets brought up quite often in the news over here, from crime and whatnot through to how their 'stealing our jobs'. Immigration is a massive subject over here, and anyone who denies it has no f*cking clue to the reality of this country...just like you, who seems to just want to troll me with your pathetic comments. I never stated that it was the biggest subject over here, but the reality is, it's a subject that still gets brought about. I've read through the previous topic, and have yet to see any member 'laughing at me', so as I said, please, quote the posts that have members laughing at what I have written...but in the meantime, kindly shut the f*ck up on a subject you clearly have no idea on. Branding me a racist...f*ck me, you're just an example of how pathetic some people are in this world, where one mention of 'foreigners getting favoured' instantly makes you racist. You've come onto this forum and instantly decided to pick me out as a member to troll, not even knowing me or anything, and all you have done is shown how much of a f*cking idiot you really are. Think you should first of all, read about the city that I come from, then come back and have an intelligent conversation with me.

You're taking my comments too literally. Perhaps you don't understand the idiom, but laughed out does not mean literally laughed at. It means you were shot down in your arguments by others, namely Sivis and Typhus upon my rereading of the topic just now. Actually, no, I don't get my opinions on this from the Media. If I got them from the media, I'd have as deluded an opinion as you do - blaming immigrants for everything, complaining about them ruining your holidays, etc etc. And that still doesn't change my previous point. Your country is not in decline because of immigrants. It's in decline because your government is being run by a bunch of idiot austerians who subscribe to the notion that cutting spending will inspire a wave of confidence. Why don't you go and worry about entering a double dip recession first, rather than blaming things on immigrants.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 22:58)

You're taking my comments too literally. Perhaps you don't understand the idiom, but laughed out does not mean literally laughed at. It means you were shot down in your arguments by others, namely Sivis and Typhus upon my rereading of the topic just now. Actually, no, I don't get my opinions on this from the Media. If I got them from the media, I'd have as deluded an opinion as you do - blaming immigrants for everything, complaining about them ruining your holidays, etc etc. And that still doesn't change my previous point. Your country is not in decline because of immigrants. It's in decline because your government is being run by a bunch of idiot austerians who subscribe to the notion that cutting spending will inspire a wave of confidence. Why don't you go and worry about entering a double dip recession first, rather than blaming things on immigrants.

No, I think you need to read that topic properly, and see that it was what a debate is supposed to be, where people take other people's points and argue their point against them. I haven't blamed the decline on immigrants, and can't find a topic where I have. The only time I have really mentioned immigrants in here is in regards to the fact that more and more job positions are getting filled by foreigners, simply because the youth of this country just don't have the skills anymore to do the jobs, something of which I think relates to this subject in a massive way, for many reasons. If the youth no longer have the skills, then it shows that our education system is failing them, they have no passion inside them anymore, and the fact that being on the dole is no longer seen as a stigma, but just the norm these days. There was a recent article in the news yesterday that was about a firm that offered work experience of some sort to jobless youngsters, and they all failed to turn up, simply because they couldn't be bothered with it. I admit, I'm currently on the dole, but I lost my job due to the recession, so don't come and talk to me about what the priority should be in this country, when I have actually personally witnessed it.

It's a vicious circle though, and the Government are the ones to blame for what they have let happen to our country.

And where do you get your 'ideas' from then? I have to laugh at you though, for saying that all my ideas about the country of which I live in come from the media...get a f*cking grip, I live in this country you f*cking moron. And where the f*ck have I blamed immigrants for anything...especially my holidays? The thing about the last topic that you seem to have failed to grasp at is that I never once blamed the immigrants personally, but instead, the Government for trying to brush it all under the carpet. If you're going to continue to troll me though, atleast know what it is you're attacking me for in the first place, rather than taking me out of context.

Think you'll find that it is you that members of this forum are getting rather tired with, especially when it comes to your debates.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Butters 2011 @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 18:13)

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 22:58) You're taking my comments too literally. Perhaps you don't understand the idiom, but laughed out does not mean literally laughed at. It means you were shot down in your arguments by others, namely Sivis and Typhus upon my rereading of the topic just now. Actually, no, I don't get my opinions on this from the Media. If I got them from the media, I'd have as deluded an opinion as you do - blaming immigrants for everything, complaining about them ruining your holidays, etc etc. And that still doesn't change my previous point. Your country is not in decline because of immigrants. It's in decline because your government is being run by a bunch of idiot austerians who subscribe to the notion that cutting spending will inspire a wave of confidence. Why don't you go and worry about entering a double dip recession first, rather than blaming things on immigrants. No, I think you need to read that topic properly, and see that it was what a debate is supposed to be, where people take other people's points and argue their point against them. I haven't blamed the decline on immigrants, and can't find a topic where I have. The only time I have really mentioned immigrants in here is in regards to the fact that more and more job positions are getting filled by foreigners, simply because the youth of this country just don't have the skills anymore to do the jobs, something of which I think relates to this subject in a massive way, for many reasons. If the youth no longer have the skills, then it shows that our education system is failing them, they have no passion inside them anymore, and the fact that being on the dole is no longer seen as a stigma, but just the norm these days. There was a recent article in the news yesterday that was about a firm that offered work experience of some sort to jobless youngsters, and they all failed to turn up, simply because they couldn't be bothered with it. I admit, I'm currently on the dole, but I lost my job due to the recession, so don't come and talk to me about what the priority should be in this country, when I have actually personally witnessed it. It's a vicious circle though, and the Government are the ones to blame for what they have let happen to our country. And where do you get your 'ideas' from then? I have to laugh at you though, for saying that all my ideas about the country of which I live in come from the media...get a f*cking grip, I live in this country you f*cking moron. And where the f*ck have I blamed immigrants for anything...especially my holidays? The thing about the last topic that you seem to have failed to grasp at is that I never once blamed the immigrants personally, but instead, the Government for trying to brush it all under the carpet. If you're going to continue to troll me though, atleast know what it is you're attacking me for in the first place, rather than taking me out of context.

I think this argument between the two of us is right now unnecessarily antagonistic. I apologize for starting it with you using a personal attack, but my point remains. Reading through that topic what I see from you is simply uneducated hyperbole against immigrants. I don't have to, nor will I, go and quote specific examples, because the whole first page shows you doing it. I didn't even look to the second. You make a good point that immigrants filling positions is a reason for it - they are better suited for the task and your own people are not good enough for it, therefore as you say the education system fails them. That makes sense and is totally agreeable. You did not say anything of the sort in the last topic and you know it.

I was referring to your talk about the Muslims and poppy plants.

QUOTE

Think you'll find that it is you that members of this forum are getting rather tired with, especially when it comes to your debates.

Really? Who would that be? The weasel or whatever the f*ck his name is?

[MIKON8ERISBACK]

QUOTE (TheInterpreter @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 04:51)

Are we in decline? I can't definitively say if we are or not. I think with the military cuts and the education cuts we are on our way.

It's all caused by high taxes, coddled children, and an excessively heavily controlled education system slanting 90 degrees to the left.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Apr 30 2012, 00:45)

You did not say anything of the sort in the last topic and you know it. I was referring to your talk about the Muslims and poppy plants.

Congratulations, because that's what the topic was supposed to be about...