[interpolfan11]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Jun 15 2012, 12:41)

I know you guys are confident that the game is rigged by way of officiating. but I honestly don't believe that there's enough evidence to really support that. right now it's little more than circumstantial speculation. if anything, the amount of fouls that are called (or not called) just goes to show how poor the rules of basketball are in general; they're way too subjective. it's not really fair on the officials to begin with. to me it seems like they are doing their best. when I find myself disagreeing with a call, it's not based on which team it was against, it's based on the fact that I usually don't see where the foul occurred. a big part of the problem is simply over-officiating. they need to step back during the post season (like other sports referee's do) and let the men play tough.

I know the simple solution to the NBA's problems...the officials need to check any questionable call on instant replay before making a final decision. And before anyone says, "but then the games would take five hours to play!!!" consider that the referees literally take three minutes to review any call on replay. This is WAY too long. They should only be taking 45 seconds to review these calls. I mean, if they're able to make the correct call about 85% of the time in a split second's time, then they can definitely make up there mind about a call after 30-45 seconds of watching a replay, rather than three minutes.

And I don't care if the referees have to literally sprint over to the replay booth to allow these reviews to be under the minute mark. The NBA needs to do this to protect the integrity of the game.

This post has been edited by interpolfan11 on Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 16:44

[DOOM!]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Jun 15 2012, 20:41)

I know you guys are confident that the game is rigged by way of officiating. but I honestly don't believe that there's enough evidence to really support that. right now it's little more than circumstantial speculation. if anything, the amount of fouls that are called (or not called) just goes to show how poor the rules of basketball are in general; they're way too subjective. it's not really fair on the officials to begin with. to me it seems like they are doing their best. when I find myself disagreeing with a call, it's not based on which team it was against, it's based on the fact that I usually don't see where the foul occurred. a big part of the problem is simply over-officiating. they need to step back during the post season (like other sports referee's do) and let the men play tough.

When a player gets fouled three times with 12 seconds left for the game tying shot and it's not called.... Don't you find that fishy?

Didn't you find it fishy LeBron James fouling out against the Celtics, which who won, to force a game 6 or 7, when the last time he did foul out was 4 year prior? Not to mention the fouls he got called for were just horrible.

The game isn't "rigged" but certain fouls can change momentum of the game greatly. "Paving the way..." would be a better term, maybe?

This post has been edited by DOOM! on Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 18:32

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (DOOM! @ Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 11:29)

The game isn't "rigged" but certain fouls can change momentum of the game greatly. "Paving the way..." would be a better term, maybe?

yeah maybe, sure.

but I don't think the evidence is that obvious or overwhelming enough to say that Mr. Stern is simply fixing games by using the refs.
like I said, we've all seen a lot of ridiculous calls. but I think this has more to do with how stupid NBA rules are.

the game has changed so much since the late 70's after Jordan arrived.
the style of offense changed and the style of defense changed. but the rules never changed to reflect this.

the referee's are trying to call a game like it's still 1982 and everyone is wearing short shorts and taking long 2-pointers. but they're not.
the rules about fouling and foul-calling desperately need to be reformed.

[InstantCClassic]

QUOTE (DOOM! @ Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 18:29)

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Jun 15 2012, 20:41) I know you guys are confident that the game is rigged by way of officiating. but I honestly don't believe that there's enough evidence to really support that. right now it's little more than circumstantial speculation. if anything, the amount of fouls that are called (or not called) just goes to show how poor the rules of basketball are in general; they're way too subjective. it's not really fair on the officials to begin with. to me it seems like they are doing their best. when I find myself disagreeing with a call, it's not based on which team it was against, it's based on the fact that I usually don't see where the foul occurred. a big part of the problem is simply over-officiating. they need to step back during the post season (like other sports referee's do) and let the men play tough. When a player gets fouled three times with 12 seconds left for the game tying shot and it's not called.... Don't you find that fishy? Didn't you find it fishy LeBron James fouling out against the Celtics, which who won, to force a game 6 or 7, when the last time he did foul out was 4 year prior? Not to mention the fouls he got called for were just horrible. The game isn't "rigged" but certain fouls can change momentum of the game greatly. "Paving the way..." would be a better term, maybe?

It's fixed. David Stern is milking this series badly. He can milk it, but OKC better get that title. the championship means MUCH more to the Thunder rather than the Heat. They're a low-market team with a great bench and coach.

[ass reamer]

QUOTE (interpolfan11 @ Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 12:40)

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Jun 15 2012, 12:41) I know you guys are confident that the game is rigged by way of officiating. but I honestly don't believe that there's enough evidence to really support that. right now it's little more than circumstantial speculation. if anything, the amount of fouls that are called (or not called) just goes to show how poor the rules of basketball are in general; they're way too subjective. it's not really fair on the officials to begin with. to me it seems like they are doing their best. when I find myself disagreeing with a call, it's not based on which team it was against, it's based on the fact that I usually don't see where the foul occurred. a big part of the problem is simply over-officiating. they need to step back during the post season (like other sports referee's do) and let the men play tough. I know the simple solution to the NBA's problems...the officials need to check any questionable call on instant replay before making a final decision. And before anyone says, "but then the games would take five hours to play!!!" consider that the referees literally take three minutes to review any call on replay. This is WAY too long. They should only be taking 45 seconds to review these calls. I mean, if they're able to make the correct call about 85% of the time in a split second's time, then they can definitely make up there mind about a call after 30-45 seconds of watching a replay, rather than three minutes. And I don't care if the referees have to literally sprint over to the replay booth to allow these reviews to be under the minute mark. The NBA needs to do this to protect the integrity of the game.

You've got to be kidding. The flow of play in the NBA is already interrupted virtually every 30 seconds with oftentimes phantom foul calls, and you want to slow it down even more by requiring refs to go to the tape anytime something is remotely questionable? Get out of town.

I think you can blame David Stern for the over-officiating you see in today's game. The league started cracking down on physical play after the Bad Boys Pistons teams slapped around other teams in the 80's into the early 90's. I think Stern saw Michael Jordan being held down at times by the physicality of the Pistons and decided he needed to tone down the contact and create room for more finesse and scoring. Ultimately the call was probably the right one, as the NBA's popularity has soared since then, but I think it also accounts for the whiny, pussy-ass, over-officiated state of the league that you see today. A lot of the time your ability to win can be measured by your ability to get to the line (hell, Dwayne Wade has made a career out of it) and that irks the sh*t out of me.

[JuVeNiLe]

The NBA is corrupt as politics.

[El_Diablo]

I don't think there's any real evidence to support that claim.
it's also not that simple.

Jeff Van Gundy believes, like I do, that it's simply a matter of over officiating. he complains about it during virtually every broadcast he does.
in fact he and Marv Albert (Hall of Fame basketball announcer and game caller) used to talk about this on the air until NBA TV split them up... probably at Stern's request. they are both some of the most vocal critics of the league and it's rules. they would always say how the rules need to be updated to match the pace and style of the game.

and I'm inclined to agree.
I don't think the games are being fixed or the that the refs have a hand in this. I just think the NBA has a problem where it is trying to officiate the game like it's still 1982 even though so many things have changed since then.

[DOOM!]

"Over-officiating" is a cute term, really. Because they can under-officiate the whole game until fouls that matter don't get called or fouls that do matter don't. It's dumb, and wouldn't hurt to add a little replay for help.


Oh, oh, we can check the replay for a shot-clock violation and notice that the guy got completely hacked... but we cannot do anything about that. It's f*cking dumb.

Heat have a lot of momentum in this series. Once again they lit the thunder slip through in the fourth quarter.. again, but surprisingly, the Heat showed some poise and determination in the 4th.

[Funktipus]

The refs didn't help, but turnovers, missed free throws, bad fouls, and a questionable move by Scott Brooks doomed OKC. I agree with Shaq & Sir Charles - call a quick timeout, settle Westbrook down, then get him back in the game. With Harden struggling, you can't have both Durant & Westbrook out.

TWICE OKC fouled Miami on three-point attempts. That's inexcusable, especially from a veteran like Fisher.

[interpolfan11]

QUOTE (ass reamer @ Sunday, Jun 17 2012, 07:07)

QUOTE (interpolfan11 @ Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 12:40) QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Jun 15 2012, 12:41) I know you guys are confident that the game is rigged by way of officiating. but I honestly don't believe that there's enough evidence to really support that. right now it's little more than circumstantial speculation. if anything, the amount of fouls that are called (or not called) just goes to show how poor the rules of basketball are in general; they're way too subjective. it's not really fair on the officials to begin with. to me it seems like they are doing their best. when I find myself disagreeing with a call, it's not based on which team it was against, it's based on the fact that I usually don't see where the foul occurred. a big part of the problem is simply over-officiating. they need to step back during the post season (like other sports referee's do) and let the men play tough. I know the simple solution to the NBA's problems...the officials need to check any questionable call on instant replay before making a final decision. And before anyone says, "but then the games would take five hours to play!!!" consider that the referees literally take three minutes to review any call on replay. This is WAY too long. They should only be taking 45 seconds to review these calls. I mean, if they're able to make the correct call about 85% of the time in a split second's time, then they can definitely make up there mind about a call after 30-45 seconds of watching a replay, rather than three minutes. And I don't care if the referees have to literally sprint over to the replay booth to allow these reviews to be under the minute mark. The NBA needs to do this to protect the integrity of the game. You've got to be kidding. The flow of play in the NBA is already interrupted virtually every 30 seconds with oftentimes phantom foul calls, and you want to slow it down even more by requiring refs to go to the tape anytime something is remotely questionable? Get out of town. I think you can blame David Stern for the over-officiating you see in today's game. The league started cracking down on physical play after the Bad Boys Pistons teams slapped around other teams in the 80's into the early 90's. I think Stern saw Michael Jordan being held down at times by the physicality of the Pistons and decided he needed to tone down the contact and create room for more finesse and scoring. Ultimately the call was probably the right one, as the NBA's popularity has soared since then, but I think it also accounts for the whiny, pussy-ass, over-officiated state of the league that you see today. A lot of the time your ability to win can be measured by your ability to get to the line (hell, Dwayne Wade has made a career out of it) and that irks the sh*t out of me.

It's more of an issue of outdated rules rather than "over-officiating" as some of you are suggesting. As I said earlier, the referees are getting about 85% of the calls right from my estimations. The calls they make are usually in line with the NBA's rulebook. Therefore, it's not "over-officiating" since the referees are essentially doing their job as the NBA rulebook states they should be doing it.

And if the NBA isn't going to change its rules to adapt to today's game (and they won't), then they need to implement an instant replay or challenge system for every questionable call as I posted earlier. Right now, the rules are too subjective and this causes too many missed calls and too many phantom calls. The only way to solve that problem outside of overhauling the rules is an instant replay or challenge system that, if executed correctly, really wouldn't add much time on to each game. Because as someone else in this thread stated, the flow of the game has already been destroyed by foul calls every 30 seconds. These foul calls usually involve some kind of discussion afterwards. These discussions between officials, and sometimes between the officials and the players, oftentimes take forever and waste time that could be spent simply watching the replay twice and making a quick but well-informed decision.

EDIT: And at the very least we can allow the current replay rules to be a little more flexible. For instance, in last night's game LeBron leaped over the out of bounds line to save a loose ball and then chucked the ball right into the bottom edge of the backboard. The officials didn't catch it, which is understandable. But what's wrong with allowing the officials to review the call by watching the replay during a commercial break and then correcting their mistake? Instead, the NBA lets the game continue as if nothing ever happened, neglecting the fact that little breaks such as that are momentum-shifters and can be the difference between winning and losing for a team.

This post has been edited by interpolfan11 on Monday, Jun 18 2012, 23:25

[Funktipus]

Anyone see the Dream Team special? Pretty f-d up the way they blackballed Isiah Thomas. Much as I hate Isiah the executive, I always respected his game(I'll never forget his early 80s playoff duel against Bernard King). It was a disgrace he wasn't on the Dream Team, but it was either him or Jordan. I'm sure Jordan & Pippen weren't the only ones.

I was ticked about Laettner too, but Shaq Fu got the last laugh - four rings and a future spot in the HOF.

[hambones]

Wow man the refs made lebron get cramps tonight wtf

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (hambones @ Tuesday, Jun 19 2012, 21:49)

Wow man the refs made lebron get cramps tonight wtf

lol...

the series is now all but over.
no team has ever come back from a 3-1 deficit.

[InstantCClassic]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Wednesday, Jun 20 2012, 06:54)

QUOTE (hambones @ Tuesday, Jun 19 2012, 21:49) Wow man the refs made lebron get cramps tonight wtf lol... the series is now all but over. no team has ever come back from a 3-1 deficit.

They'll tie it up and it'll go to game 7.

[Funktipus]

OKC's inexperience is showing, but that's to be expected. They're a young team playing in their first Finals.

[DOOM!]

Not only that, I'm worried that Durant was basically non-existent in the fourth quarter. I don't feel comfortable with Westbrook taking control during crunch time, not this year at least.

[Funktipus]

Not just Durant - Harden's been MIA most of the series. Westbrook & Durant were the only players in double figures Tuesday night. Meawhile, Miami's role guys were stepping it up.

I thought OKC's talent, youth & speed would make up for their lack of experience. I was wrong. Miami's been here before. Having felt the pain of losing a finals, they know what to do the second time around. Lebron is more aggressive now than he was last year.

[interpolfan11]

The Thunder make too many stupid mistakes and someone needs to step up besides Westbrook and Durant.

They can come back and win three straight if they just play to their potential, which is so much higher than that of the Heat's in my opinion.

[InstantCClassic]

QUOTE (interpolfan11 @ Thursday, Jun 21 2012, 08:28)

The Thunder make too many stupid mistakes and someone needs to step up besides Westbrook and Durant. They can come back and win three straight if they just play to their potential, which is so much higher than that of the Heat's in my opinion.

Don't worry, with the help and sh*t that's coming from the officials tonight, this series will be tied 3-3 and there will be a game 7.

[Webbie]

QUOTE (interpolfan11 @ Thursday, Jun 21 2012, 03:28)

The Thunder make too many stupid mistakes and someone needs to step up besides Westbrook and Durant. They can come back and win three straight if they just play to their potential, which is so much higher than that of the Heat's in my opinion.

I pretty much agree with this...

Harden hasn't played well at all in the finals and they need him, but aside from that, they're not playing defense. Ever since the finals started OKC has looked horrible defensively, and not much better offensively. You can tell they've never been to the finals.

The "youth and inexperience" everyone previously spoke of is biting them in the ass right now. I could see them being the first team to come back from 3-1 in the finals but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.