In the recent months/years, there have been many cases of politics trying to spoil everything to do with being proud of being English....in England?!?!
The earliest case I can remember was the whole England Flag debacle that went on quite some years back. Basically, the Government warned that taxi drivers, along with some others such as bin men, were banned from flying the England flag within their vehicles during the world cup. Here is a quote I found on a news article, and it actually sickens me to read it:
QUOTE
London's cabbies are normally prevented from displaying patriotic material on their vehicles under a ban on signs and advertising.
Advertising? Are you f*cking kidding me? The only thing being advertised here is the fact that we want to support our own country throughout a world cup. Here a few articles regarding this:
The workers were threatened with the sack if they were to fly the flags during the world cup. TBH, as a kid I felt like I was breaking some law by having my flags up on the windows of my house. This is just wrong in every way.
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The next one is when we suddenly saw 'English' dissapear from forms, and replaced with White British. Now I understand there may be reasons behind this, but it seems like yet another step towards wiping out the 'English', if you get me.
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Or how about the fact that Merry Xmas is now deemed racist. I'm not sure if this has effected any other country, but I see my own Government using the term Happy Holidays. With this also came the curb on decorating towns and cities with Xmas trees and lights due to the fear it may seem offensive to other cultures. Growing up in Bradford, I grew up seeing the whole city decorated with Eid decorations, which were kept up for the whole of the holiday season, yet Xmas came around and it seemed like they feared to celebrate the tradition. Some articles I quickly found on Google:
I know quite a few cities that won't be putting up any decorations during the festive season, and it sickens me yet again.
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My last point for now, and the most recent thing to rile my blood:
Some months back, a Muslim was in the news for burning a poppy wreath, and only receiving a very minimum fine from the courts, which was a substantially less amount of money than a man got fined for dropping a tab end on the floor.
Yes, I understand that these people are extremists and whatever, but the point to all of this is how our Government seems to be sitting back and letting all this happen, in fear of being classed as racist. The funny thing is, I have yet to meet a single foreigner who is offended by any of the English culture, yet the Government seems to still be trying to force us to lose pride in our country.
I believe in Free Speech and all that sh*t, but I don't believe in an English Government who aren't even proud to announce that they are English, due to the fact they may be labelled as racist.
Take a look across the water, and from what I've seen, it seems just about every American house & building has at least one flag on the outside of the building. Why the hell is this country not like that? Why the hell should I feel like I'm breaking some type of law by waving my England flag around. Why are we sitting back and letting them make a mockery of our country?
I am in no way racist, but I am sick of the fact that our own Government is too scared to be classed as racist that they have let this country lose all it's pride.
Great Britain, Pffft, don't make me f*cking laugh.
Anyone else feel this way, or am I just ranting at small things? Should England get some pride bakc into it, and finally understand that no minority is offended by a f*cking English flag, or any of our traditions.
This post has been edited by Butters 2011 on Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 17:15
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Right. Let's get this straight. This sh*t happens every Christmas, every World Cup, every St George's day and whenever something vaguely "English" happens. This sh*t is all a bag of lies.
I remember posting about this during the last World Cup. There was a stupid copy/paste thing going around Facebook about how police were going into pubs and telling people to take off England shirts because it was racist. Completely made up. These things, just about all of them, are either completely false or misinterpreted. What happens is some retared hears something, puts it on FB/sends a text/ however else these things spread, it gets around, the press report on the spread of it, which the stupid public takes as the press saying it actually happened, then you open your eyes and realise you're in a ridiculously offensive echo chamber.
Most of the things that actually happen are for valid reasons, not "offence". Stuff like the taxi flag ban, if it were about causing this stupid "offence" why would a council spokesperson say this?
QUOTE
"We accept that many taxi drivers want to be patriotic and we have been fully supportive of them wearing England shirts."
There is racism in all these stupid things, it's the f*cking public being xenophobic as sh*t and just assuming every negative thing they hear about those dirty foreigners stealing more of our rights must be 100% true.
I remember posting about this during the last World Cup. There was a stupid copy/paste thing going around Facebook about how police were going into pubs and telling people to take off England shirts because it was racist. Completely made up. These things, just about all of them, are either completely false or misinterpreted. What happens is some retared hears something, puts it on FB/sends a text/ however else these things spread, it gets around, the press report on the spread of it, which the stupid public takes as the press saying it actually happened, then you open your eyes and realise you're in a ridiculously offensive echo chamber.
Yeah, those Muslims burning poppies and not shutting up during the silence was just due to people spreading it via FB & Text...
And please, explain what 'valid' excuse they have for banning bin men and taxi drivers from flying the flag of their country?
This post has been edited by Butters 2011 on Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 17:41
Valid as in, there is a proper reason for stopping them, as in if there is a law against displaying anything somewhere, then being told to pull down a flag this isn't an issue of race.
This post has been edited by Robinski on Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 17:48
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What a ridiculous xenophobic and nativist rant. Haven't you been Geeat British since 1603? (excuse me if it's not 03)
As for the Muslims, honestly, just do us a favor and go somewhere your racist nonsense is welcome. How about stormfront? These random rumors, as Robinski mentioned, appear in emails and texts from assholes. I remember people posting on Facebook a copied and pasted message that Obama wants to remint our coins with "Allahu Akbar" instead of "In God we trust".
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xenophobic? people like irviding are the problem. patriotism is not xenophobic, flying flags isn't xenophobic, being proud of where you come from isn't xenophobic and displaying poppies or any other english/british memorbilia isn't being xenophobic.
problem with great britain in the 21st century is it is a soft touch, its a socialist state where it lays down the red carpet for incoming immigrants, tells everyone to repsect they're culture, and then tries to stop anyone from being loud and proud of being english. It's this whole "multicultural society" bullsh*t that does my head in. Thats basically saying england won't be english anymore, this place will let immigrants come across and enforce they're own culture without the people that were born and raised in this country doing the same, its just a typical double standard.
The muslims that do burn poppies and abuse war memorials should be instantly arrested and sent back home, immigrants that respect our country should have the same rights as everyone else. I don't like racism though, any british person who doesn't respect the culture of an islamic person or immigrant shouldn't expect any special treatment.
I think the problem is som people think now that a lot of the population is made of people that weren't born or don't have british descent that it is racist to have a rant against the immigrants that don't respect this country. It really isn't. I know many people who are scared of england's culture evaporating into thin air becuase of recent times. Things like not being able to display flags in your own country is madness, no matter what way you look at it.
And I'd never call myself british to be honest, I might be british but I'm english as far as I'm concerned.
What a ridiculous xenophobic and nativist rant. Haven't you been Geeat British since 1603? (excuse me if it's not 03)
As for the Muslims, honestly, just do us a favor and go somewhere your racist nonsense is welcome. How about stormfront? These random rumors, as Robinski mentioned, appear in emails and texts from assholes. I remember people posting on Facebook a copied and pasted message that Obama wants to remint our coins with "Allahu Akbar" instead of "In God we trust".
Grow a brain, please.
Maybe you should read my full post, and then you'll see that I'm not racist at all. I'm not in any way attacking these individual Muslims or anything like that, yet attacking the Government for not doing anything about it, and politics getting in the way. I have plenty of ethnic friends, and this is where I based the whole debate about it not offending any of them from. I've spent my whole life in one of the most ethnic cities in England, and I believe in this whole multi-cultural thing, but not when it comes to stopping everything to do with English.
Maybe you should 'grow a brain', rather than calling me a racist and then just stating that you agree with someone else.
@Robinski, same goes for you. Am not attacking any individual Muslim for their beliefs and Free Speech, but instead for the very fact that the police are afraid to step in and do anything about it.
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QUOTE (Vercetti27 @ Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 18:52)
The muslims that do burn poppies and abuse war memorials should be instantly arrested and sent back home, immigrants that respect our country should have the same rights as everyone else. I don't like racism though, any british person who doesn't respect the culture of an islamic person or immigrant shouldn't expect any special treatment.
Emdadur Choudhury, who was famously charged with a public order offence for burning memorial poppies is as British as you or me. Sending him home means sending him to Bethnal Green. Next, British culture and Islamic culture aren't two mutually exclusive things.
The Muslims are not the problem. It's the Anarchists, the left-wing media, the far-right populists. Patriotism, sensible patriotism has been attacked by all sides. But few have done it as much harm as those BNP/EDL scumbags who drag our flag through the mud, preying on the stupidity and ignorance of the common man.
I, like most others, was sickened by the poppy burning. But who complains when the University students desecrate WAR MEMORIALS. We're not talking about burning a replica flower. We are talking about whipping out your penis and urinating on monuments designed to remember the people who died for our freedom.
You want to blame someone? Blame yourselves. Blame the way that nothing is held sacred, everything is ridiculed. Do you people care about ANYTHING? Morals? Decency? History? No, no, how silly. The only thing that motivates you is 'fairness' and this Utopian bullsh*t you spout at every protest and rally.
The youth are the problem. The youth disgust me. They don't have an ounce of f*cking respect. I feel so much pure hatred bubbling up inside me and can't figure out what to do. I don't want their 'revolution' and I don't want to live in their Utopia. I've said it once and I'll say it again: If the Anarchist hordes in our Universities want to make this glorious new world, they'll have to build it on my mangled corpse.
I want to paint myself in their congealing blood. I want to dance in their steaming, rancid intestines. I wish them nothing but personal loss and misery. They are the ones who set this nation on the wrong course. Oh, they're so tolerant! Whoopee! They love everyone, don't they? Look, look! They're giving the cameraman the peace symbol! They must want everyone to be happy! What about people who disagree with you? Hmm? What about people who care about their country? What about people who believe in Capitalism? What about Christians? I say Christians, because God knows, you suck the cock of every single otherfaith - even when their respective fanatics actively want to destroy you..
But what about us, then? Where do we fit in? Oh, I know. You'll have to 're-educate' us, right? You want to know why this country is a mess? Because these Anarchist f*cks run the BBC. Don't believe me? Look at their Pro-Palestine bias. Look how they were ever so sympathetic to the Dale Farm squatters - even when local residents were against them. Look how they take every opportunity to denigrate our police and armed forces. Just look at them and realise how shallow, how pathetic it is to pin our problems on an immigrant population who have done nothing but try to blend in and find their place here.
I have always respect our immigrants and I will always defend them. But I will never respect nor forgive the home-grown traitors who are purposefully seeking our destruction so they can rebuild England as a cold, grey Republic. Don't defend them, I know I'm right. I have hated these c*nts since I was a child. I hope to see the day when they are utterly, irreversibly destroyed.
I love UAVs Group: Andolini Mafia Family
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QUOTE
I'm English, not British. You think it's racist to want to be English instead of British? How absurd.
No. You misunderstood me. Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the flag flying or identifying oneself as English as xenophobic. I was talking about the typical, unfounded bullsh*t about Muslims found in many British peoples' rants nowadays. They don't work, they burn the flag, whatever other sh*t that probably more people of different sects do than Muslims. But don't worry guys, Muslims are easy to hate ever since 9/11, so we can just spew bullsh*t about the less than half a percent of them that are involved in terrorist/anti-government activity.
As for the British thing, yes, I will call you British. A British person is defined as one who lives in Great Britain, a descendent of such people, etc. You can choose to identify yourself as English instead, but the fact is, you're kidding yourself. You are British whether you like it or not. I'm American whether I like it or not. If I go move to Spain, I could say I am now Spanish once I get citizenship and totally relinquish my American citizenship, but that doesn't change the fact that by definition and by custom I am American. Same with my state identity. That's very important in the US - what state you're from. I could move to Kentucky but to the people of Kentucky I am still a New Yorker.
This post has been edited by Irviding on Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 20:52
I'm English, not British. You think it's racist to want to be English instead of British? How absurd.
No. You misunderstood me. Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the flag flying or identifying oneself as English as xenophobic. I was talking about the typical, unfounded bullsh*t about Muslims found in many British peoples' rants nowadays. They don't work, they burn the flag, whatever other sh*t that probably more people of different sects do than Muslims. But don't worry guys, Muslims are easy to hate ever since 9/11, so we can just spew bullsh*t about the less than half a percent of them that are involved in terrorist/anti-government activity.
Yet again, feel the need to defend myself since your first comment was aimed towards me. I have grown up in a 'Muslim city', had plenty of Muslim friends, and yet they caused no trouble. The whole Muslim debate was only brought about because it's the bloody truth, and it's right there in black and white. These extremists are given all the media attention they want, and allowed to carry on their hate campaign, yet as soon as a member of the BNP open their mouths, they get an instant hate campaign against them. I don't defend the BNP, but maybe this is just media as well?
Irviding, you starting to sound like a dick especially after you wrote this.
QUOTE
Muslims are easy to hate ever since 9/11
I respect people's culture and their beliefs. You are blaming a whole religion just because of a minority of idiots. You have that avatar "We will never forget" and there is a picture of the Twin Towers burning, but what about the Americans, Bin Laden didn't attack the Twin Towers out of the blue.
I am not saying that what he did was right.
But listen, I am not trying to be hostile or anything but your patriotism is making you ignorant. You are blind.
The Arabs/Muslims are not terrorists, you don't have to blame them for the actions of one.
The Arabs don't support Al-Qaeda in any way.
The Arabs hate Al-Qaeda as much as you do, they ruined our image of how we appear to the world.
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You may want to read that again. He said as a social commentary that it is easy to hate all Muslims and stereotype all Muslims after 9/11, especially considering the way the media is and how quick to judge people are. He didn't say that he agreed with it, just that it is easy for people to do it.
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vertical limit you've totally mis-interpreted irvidings post.
the extremists that try to desacrate our culture are worthy of hate, I don't care if one of the c*nts was british or not, they deserve to be treated like a crimanel. I've heard a lot about british people with middle eastern roots joining these extremist groups and learning to hate "the west" even though they were brought up with western sensibilities and live in a civilised, tolerant world. f*ck them.
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Well I've had an England flag in my front window since the football world cup last year and I/we (my family) haven't gotten into trouble yet, nor has one of our neighbours on our street who has a Union Jack and a Swiss flag in his front window. Also another person in our area who has an England flag in his window and a "Help For Heroes" flag on his flagpole infront of his house and the local pub is drapped in St Georges Crosses, all haven't been deamed as "racists", and the area is classed as a "melting pot of different religions and ethnicities". So for the debate on England flags I guess it depends on where you are in the country.
Now onto the "Merry Xmas/Happy Holidays" and Christmas decorations debates, that is not true where I live. The stores here have been putting up Christmas decorations as early as October time, and the "lighting of the cities' Christmas lights" are a very big thing in Bristol, Bath and other cities/towns here in the West country (and in other parts of the UK too I believe).
Granted the local schools no longer have Christmas pantomimes of the Nativity Story here anymore, but that doesn't get anyone down in this area (even the local church doesn't care about this due to the fact that they hold their own Christmas Carol service on the streets, in the church, and at other various places in the area, predominantly in the local pub. Plus they have their own Christmas pantomime too anyway).
Also I agree that religious extremists (like those who burned the poppy on Armistice Day) do make my blood boil, but it does for other people too. Muslims who I've spoken to share disgrace and anger to what those extremists did on Armistice Day.
Some people who I've spoke to who have come from the West Indies are proud to call themselves "English", same for people who have moved from Middle Eastern and African countries. I'm still proud to call myself English along with the rest of my family even though our government is very anxious on what can offend certain cultures.
But I/we have stayed strong and have just ignored all of the doom and gloom that happens/has happened here in the UK and set our sights on the future, and our minds on the things that has made this country great.
Don't defend them, I know I'm right. I have hated these c*nts since I was a child. I hope to see the day when they are utterly, irreversibly destroyed.
Well you'll be waiting a while for that since they don't actually exist outside of your own head. You've basically taken all the things you don't like and created a fake political ideology you can disagree with that espouses all of them. Why would an anarchist attend university? Why would an anarchist be pro-Islam? It seems counter-intuitive that anarchists would be in control of the government and media conglomerates, or be for a republic (what the f*ck?).
But for what it's worth, you can be proud while being anti-authority. Morrissey (a notorious anti-monarchist) is the most anti-establishment man in entertainment, and he's all about the patriotism.
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QUOTE
Why would an anarchist attend university? Why would an anarchist be pro-Islam? It seems counter-intuitive that anarchists would be in control of the government and media conglomerates, or be for a republic (what the f*ck?).
Uh..yes actually, there are plenty of people that identify themselves with the radical muslim population that attend university here in england. usually long haired, rich liberal types that detest any possible form of capitalism and distance themselves from being english or don't identify themselves as such.
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Lots of rhetoric going on here, very little actual intelligent discussion. I suggest those who are making significant points take a step back and present them in a slightly more objective way. I'd like to address a few things that have been mentioned here-
1) Very few people "identify with the radical Muslim population", anywhere you look. People may say things that are sensationalist in order to attract attention to themselves, but very few can present a cohesive argument for siding with violent Islamists- because there's no cohesive argument to make. As someone whose spent a good many years at universities, and a number of years studying trends in violent extremism, I can say categorically that the only tangible link between Islamic extremism and universities is the small number of individuals who are radicalised whilst studying. It's around 1/3 of all convicted Islamists in the UK, which sounds like a relatively high proportion but in reality is (given the fact that over 50% of individuals aged 18-21 are either in, or preparing to enter, the higher education system) quite small.
2) Burning poppies is not illegal. You can express moral outrage all you want at it, but, save for in occasions where it could be interpreted as breach of the peace, it's not a fundamentally illegal act. Now, if you are arguing that there is some grounds for producing a law for use against individuals disrespecting the UK, then present that rather than just semantics- at least that's a logical line of argument.
I wish people would stop playing the victim. Robinski covered just about every aspect of it quite concisely and correctly. The vast majority of those who immigrate into this country abide by it's laws far better than British citizens do- the "problem", when it comes to radicalisation, is actually amongst members of certain 3rd or 4th generation communities- which makes them as or more British than I am- and amongst British citizens who convert to radical forms of Islam. I just don't understand how otherwise intelligent people can buy into all this sensationalist crap without spending one moment thinking "hang on, this doesn't sound right". Basically, this thread comes across as a select few members using rhetoric and ignorance to justify their own intolerance and moral outrage at society, politics and anything else that's available. Vercetti27- you accuse the "liberal wealthy" of encouraging the actions of Islamic extremists, when in reality it's derogatory and bigoted attitudes as such as your own which encourage radicalisation.
So, why are you a "patriot", then? Explain to me how your actions have been patriotic, and what you feel your justification for feeling so is.
This post has been edited by sivispacem on Monday, Nov 28 2011, 13:48
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Sunday, Nov 27 2011, 22:16)
Irviding, you starting to sound like a dick especially after you wrote this.
QUOTE
Muslims are easy to hate ever since 9/11
I respect people's culture and their beliefs. You are blaming a whole religion just because of a minority of idiots. You have that avatar "We will never forget" and there is a picture of the Twin Towers burning, but what about the Americans, Bin Laden didn't attack the Twin Towers out of the blue.
I am not saying that what he did was right.
But listen, I am not trying to be hostile or anything but your patriotism is making you ignorant. You are blind.
The Arabs/Muslims are not terrorists, you don't have to blame them for the actions of one.
The Arabs don't support Al-Qaeda in any way.
The Arabs hate Al-Qaeda as much as you do, they ruined our image of how we appear to the world.
Why don't you read his text again? You missed something.
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