[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 10:11)

The military proposes a lot of whacky plans. Here is the map of a plan to invade Canada and fight the British Empire (War Plan Red) [IMG][/IMG]

Plus there was running the remote viewing program until the mid 1980s. Seriously, that's what happens in a Cold War climate and a military with more money than sense. @GM- Northwoods was never actioned, so it couldn't have been "turned down" by a president. It was entirely theoretical discussion, was never properly funded and never got passed the most initial planning stages. Like many rather wacky ideas put forward by the DoD and CIA- psychic powers, nuclear powered cruise missiles, space-based weapons- it got abandoned pretty quickly.

[trip]

Ronald Reagan.

That guy f*cked up so many lives it isn't even funny.

[leaflinks]

Ronald Reagan can be remembered for one foreign policy change, when he withdrew the Marines from Lebanon in 1983 after 241 were killed. He said the Middle East was a jungle and never understood Middle Eastern politics because of the irrationality of people's actions there.

Yet he did make one good choice and that was to get those soldiers out.

Jimmy Carter woke up Americans to the energy problems faced, as the decline of crude began forty years ago. Which in part explains W Bush's failed foreign policy over the last decade.

George W is one of America's most poorest leaders. Too many people died during his time.

[Chunkyman]

FDR, because he trampled on the Constitution and put people in internment camps.

This post has been edited by Chunkyman on Tuesday, Jan 24 2012, 06:16

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Tuesday, Jan 24 2012, 00:58)

FDR, because he trampled on the Constitution and put people in internment camps.

I don't think you can judge his legacy on something like that. We're not talking about death camps here, first of all. Yes, they were taken from their homes. But again - this was wartime. We were fighting a war that we were not sure we could win. The Germans were plowing through Europe - basically all of continental Europe was in German hands - Spain and Portugal were both essentially axis aligned, and there was no hope for the Soviets at that time. Things didn't look good in 1941/1942, and even into 1943 until the fall of the sixth army, it was looking like an allied loss. I don't blame FDR for accepting advise from his military leadership to intern Japanese citizens. I really don't. Germans had been immigrating to the US since colonial times, and even more during the 1840s/50s, and then along with the Norwegians/Swedes due to the Homestead act. They'd been here a while is what I am basically saying. There really was no massive Japanese immigration to the US, and it was scary to see them here since they were so uncommon compared with other demographics. Again - it was wrong, it was racist, but I don't blame them for taking such a step during a massive world war where millions were dying every year.

[sivispacem]

Prisons are internment camps, but you don't see people complaining about those. Anyway, national security should- and does- override rights and freedoms in times of threat. Also (I'm sure Ivirding will be able to give an answer)- is detaining individuals in internment camps in a time of conflict actually unconstitutional? It's permitted under the laws of war, for example.

[Irviding]

Well, during the war itself, they used the stare decisis behind the actions taken during WWI in Korematsu v US, and the court did rule that it was constitutional because Korematsu's person liberty didn't outweigh the security of the West Coast. I haven't studied that case for a while but it certainly wasnt overturned by another supreme court case, and remains precedent today. The president also has a few war time posts that allow him to do that.