[glenn tha killer]

Northern Ireland is a disputed area run basically by Ireland and mainly Briton the main problem goes back to the Plantations of Ulster which is the Provence Northern Ireland is in.What happened was the British decided to plant their citizens there, as war was expensive and they had the Spanish and French at their necks, they ordered many plantations but only one was considered victorious it was the plantation of Ulster.So as time went on the Celt`s or common Irish families were pushed of their land into the bogs and forests and the fact that the Irish were Catholic and the British were protestant never helped.As the Industrial Revolution began Catholics moved into their own towns and villages, the Catholics had their own and so did the protestants.It came to a time after many failed Revolutions that the Irish had a successful rebelian the IRB was established and soon after the 1916 Easter rising the IRA was set up.In the North groups were also set up by protestants so at that time the people of Ireland and the people of Briton came together to support each others causes.The British army gave in, they could no longer fight in Europe in world war 1 and worry about the oldest colony Ireland, they made a treaty and they both agreed on the fact that at the time Northern Ireland will always be more British populated than any other area in Ireland so the rest of Ireland was freed but the North with both Catholics and Protestants stayed in the firm grip of the British Empire, and has been still to this day.Then the troubles started and the IRA [in my view they are scum they killed innocent people and will never be anything like the original IRA] they fought for equal rights for Catholics in a very violent way and often bombed areas of Briton and Northern Ireland and killed many people they eventually signed a cease fire but splinter groups still run today who kill Innocent people.


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It would appreciated people adding to my points and correcting me if im wrong as I might be some where above I tried to be at least by-is as possible

valid points from sivispacem

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

Northern Ireland is a disputed area run basically by Ireland and mainly Briton the main problem goes back to the Plantations of Ulster which is the Provence Northern Ireland is in. What happened was the British decided to plant their citizens there, as war was expensive and they had the Spanish and French at their necks, they ordered many plantations but only one was considered victorious it was the plantation of Ulster. So as time went on the Celt`s or common Irish families were pushed of their land into the bogs and forests and the fact that the Irish were Catholic and the British were protestant never helped.

Actually, the fundamental problem wasn't that the common Irish were being pushed off their land- the area had been the focus of Scottish immigration for centuries and Highland Gaelic and Presbyterian Scots formed a sizeable proportion of the population. It was more down to the ingress of the common Irish- or more importantly (as you highlight) Catholics- into the actual running of the towns of Northern Ireland, "undue" religious tolerance towards Catholicism in the region, and perhaps most importantly, the rise of fundamentalist Protestantism after the Civil war.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

As the Industrial Revolution began Catholics moved into their own towns and villages, the Catholics had their own and so did the protestants. It came to a time after many failed Revolutions that the Irish had a successful rebelian the IRB was established and soon after the 1916 Easter rising the IRA was set up.

Quite accurate, though the partition of Ireland didn't actually occur until 1921- that was the truly successful insurrection/rebellion. The IRA also existed before the Easter Rising, having been set up in 1913.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

In the North groups were also set up by protestants so at that time the people of Ireland and the people of Briton came together to support each others causes. The British army gave in, they could no longer fight in Europe in world war 1 and worry about the oldest colony Ireland, they made a treaty and they both agreed on the fact that at the time Northern Ireland will always be more British populated than any other area in Ireland so the rest of Ireland was freed but the North with both Catholics and Protestants stayed in the firm grip of the British Empire, and has been still to this day.

The entire Irish War of Independence occurred after the First World War, rather than during it. The rest of what you say is pretty accurate- the UK's armed forces had been decimated by the conflict and the 1918-1919 Spanish Influenza outbreak, and they weren't capable of fighting a counter-insurgency war in Ireland. That led to the aforementioned establishment of the Irish state- which at this point did not include the Northern regions, which had by that point already had established a North-Eastern "Home Rule" parliament with a Unionist majority.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

Then the troubles started and the IRA [in my view they are scum they killed innocent people and will never be anything like the original IRA] they fought for equal rights for Catholics in a very violent way and often bombed areas of Briton and Northern Ireland and killed many people they eventually signed a cease fire but splinter groups still run today who kill Innocent people.

The first incarnation of the IRA also killed innocent people. By conducting insurrection campaigns, they did target non-combatants in conflict- political figures, members of the police force and anyone else they saw as a bastion of British rule in Ireland. As, for that matter, did Unionist terrorist organisations like the Ulster Defence Force- commonly targeting Catholic civilians both in Northern Ireland and in the Republic. Since the full implementation of the Peace Process in 1998 and the re-establishment of a separate Irish parliamentary institution with close links to the Republic, but technically still part of the United Kingdom. This has pleased the vast majority of the IRA and it's splinter groups- but not all of them; similarly, it's been a good enough compromise for most aspects of the Loyalist/Unionist terrorist network, but not all of it. The problem is thus- the IRA splinter groups- Óglaigh na hÉireann, Continuity IRA and the Real IRA- haven't been satisfied- and they've been supplied clandestinely with weapons and explosives by other powers, principally Libya until very recently. Then again, both the Ulster Volunteer Force and Ulster Defence Force are still operating to some extent inside Ireland. Of these groups, only the IRA splinters have conducted or attempted to conduct large-scale attacks in Northern Ireland, and do possess the aspiration to attack England proper. With the exception of one of the so-called "Óglaigh na hÉireann" organisations (there are at least two, both a PIRA and CIRA splinter group), though, their intentions- and those of the Unionist paramilitary forces- have changed from being purely political, to operating closer to organised criminal gangs. These days, they tend to conduct activities such as the killing, robbing or maiming of drug dealers apparently conducting their activities on "their territory", and conducting robberies against businesses. There have also been incidents of attacks from both sides on innocent civilians of the other political or religious beliefs- Loyalists attacking Catholics and Republicans attacking Protestants. It's still far from resolved, but both sides are equally as guilty in my view. The Republicans have certainly caused more casualties, but they're numerically larger and have been the ones conducting limited warfare and the Unionists and British have responded to that- so that's no unexpected.

This post has been edited by glenn tha killer on Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 20:25

[Irviding]

My ancestors were part of the old IRA and I'm very proud of them. I am almost entirely catholic, only about 25% of my lineage comes from Norway/Germany, and as someone who has family in Scotland and Ireland, I really don't see the issue. Northern Ireland is predominately Catholic and Anglican (I don't care what they say, it's the same religion save the pope) but I think that isn't much of an issue anymore. I think that people are past that and the what, 1 million people in Northern Ireland are fine with the status quo.

[glenn tha killer]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 18:46)

My ancestors were part of the old IRA and I'm very proud of them. I am almost entirely catholic, only about 25% of my lineage comes from Norway/Germany, and as someone who has family in Scotland and Ireland, I really don't see the issue. Northern Ireland is predominately Catholic and Anglican (I don't care what they say, it's the same religion save the pope) but I think that isn't much of an issue anymore. I think that people are past that and the what, 1 million people in Northern Ireland are fine with the status quo.

so what is your answer

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

Northern Ireland is a disputed area run basically by Ireland and mainly Briton the main problem goes back to the Plantations of Ulster which is the Provence Northern Ireland is in. What happened was the British decided to plant their citizens there, as war was expensive and they had the Spanish and French at their necks, they ordered many plantations but only one was considered victorious it was the plantation of Ulster. So as time went on the Celt`s or common Irish families were pushed of their land into the bogs and forests and the fact that the Irish were Catholic and the British were protestant never helped.

Actually, the fundamental problem wasn't that the common Irish were being pushed off their land- the area had been the focus of Scottish immigration for centuries and Highland Gaelic and Presbyterian Scots formed a sizeable proportion of the population. It was more down to the ingress of the common Irish- or more importantly (as you highlight) Catholics- into the actual running of the towns of Northern Ireland, "undue" religious tolerance towards Catholicism in the region, and perhaps most importantly, the rise of fundamentalist Protestantism after the Civil war.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

As the Industrial Revolution began Catholics moved into their own towns and villages, the Catholics had their own and so did the protestants. It came to a time after many failed Revolutions that the Irish had a successful rebelian the IRB was established and soon after the 1916 Easter rising the IRA was set up.

Quite accurate, though the partition of Ireland didn't actually occur until 1921- that was the truly successful insurrection/rebellion. The IRA also existed before the Easter Rising, having been set up in 1913.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

In the North groups were also set up by protestants so at that time the people of Ireland and the people of Briton came together to support each others causes. The British army gave in, they could no longer fight in Europe in world war 1 and worry about the oldest colony Ireland, they made a treaty and they both agreed on the fact that at the time Northern Ireland will always be more British populated than any other area in Ireland so the rest of Ireland was freed but the North with both Catholics and Protestants stayed in the firm grip of the British Empire, and has been still to this day.

The entire Irish War of Independence occurred after the First World War, rather than during it. The rest of what you say is pretty accurate- the UK's armed forces had been decimated by the conflict and the 1918-1919 Spanish Influenza outbreak, and they weren't capable of fighting a counter-insurgency war in Ireland. That led to the aforementioned establishment of the Irish state- which at this point did not include the Northern regions, which had by that point already had established a North-Eastern "Home Rule" parliament with a Unionist majority.

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 15:45)

Then the troubles started and the IRA [in my view they are scum they killed innocent people and will never be anything like the original IRA] they fought for equal rights for Catholics in a very violent way and often bombed areas of Briton and Northern Ireland and killed many people they eventually signed a cease fire but splinter groups still run today who kill Innocent people.

The first incarnation of the IRA also killed innocent people. By conducting insurrection campaigns, they did target non-combatants in conflict- political figures, members of the police force and anyone else they saw as a bastion of British rule in Ireland. As, for that matter, did Unionist terrorist organisations like the Ulster Defence Force- commonly targeting Catholic civilians both in Northern Ireland and in the Republic. Since the full implementation of the Peace Process in 1998 and the re-establishment of a separate Irish parliamentary institution with close links to the Republic, but technically still part of the United Kingdom. This has pleased the vast majority of the IRA and it's splinter groups- but not all of them; similarly, it's been a good enough compromise for most aspects of the Loyalist/Unionist terrorist network, but not all of it. The problem is thus- the IRA splinter groups- Óglaigh na hÉireann, Continuity IRA and the Real IRA- haven't been satisfied- and they've been supplied clandestinely with weapons and explosives by other powers, principally Libya until very recently. Then again, both the Ulster Volunteer Force and Ulster Defence Force are still operating to some extent inside Ireland. Of these groups, only the IRA splinters have conducted or attempted to conduct large-scale attacks in Northern Ireland, and do possess the aspiration to attack England proper. With the exception of one of the so-called "Óglaigh na hÉireann" organisations (there are at least two, both a PIRA and CIRA splinter group), though, their intentions- and those of the Unionist paramilitary forces- have changed from being purely political, to operating closer to organised criminal gangs. These days, they tend to conduct activities such as the killing, robbing or maiming of drug dealers apparently conducting their activities on "their territory", and conducting robberies against businesses. There have also been incidents of attacks from both sides on innocent civilians of the other political or religious beliefs- Loyalists attacking Catholics and Republicans attacking Protestants. It's still far from resolved, but both sides are equally as guilty in my view. The Republicans have certainly caused more casualties, but they're numerically larger and have been the ones conducting limited warfare and the Unionists and British have responded to that- so that's no unexpected.

[glenn tha killer]

ok thanks man ill add them in

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 21:14)

ok thanks man ill add them in

You didn't need to add them in that way (bit too late now, though)- D&D is a free-for-all for personal views and opinions, interesting ideas and principals and the suchlike! Those were just my opinions, I'm sure others will probably dispute them!

[glenn tha killer]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 20:29)

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 21:14) ok thanks man ill add them in You didn't need to add them in that way (bit too late now, though)- D&D is a free-for-all for personal views and opinions, interesting ideas and principals and the suchlike! Those were just my opinions, I'm sure others will probably dispute them!

it is an example of a valid point not like the other guy he didn't build on what I said or answer the question

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 21:35)

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 20:29) QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Wednesday, Nov 2 2011, 21:14) ok thanks man ill add them in You didn't need to add them in that way (bit too late now, though)- D&D is a free-for-all for personal views and opinions, interesting ideas and principals and the suchlike! Those were just my opinions, I'm sure others will probably dispute them! it is an example of a valid point not like the other guy he didn't build on what I said or answer the question

This section of the forum isn't about answering a question, though. It's more about just contributing views information and presenting arguments.

[glenn tha killer]

ok sorry

[Irviding]

UK owns them if you want a specific answer. You can't argue that at all lol..

[myhame]

Yes, they are a member of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ireland should be taken under our control again. There were never any abuses as the ones the Irish and their idiotic descdents living in America such as the replier in this topic. I must ask you, you have Scottish blood, Irvding? That signifies that you are, in fact, a Briton. How could you support not having a unified British Isles?

[General Goose]

The reasons Ireland should be independent are as follows:
A) It's perfectly happy being independent
B) We're perfectly happy it being independent.

[myhame]

QUOTE (General Goose @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 19:13)

The reasons Ireland should be independent are as follows: A) It's perfectly happy being independent B) We're perfectly happy it being independent.

I, am not.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (myhame @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 14:09)

Yes, they are a member of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ireland should be taken under our control again. There were never any abuses as the ones the Irish and their idiotic descdents living in America such as the replier in this topic. I must ask you, you have Scottish blood, Irvding? That signifies that you are, in fact, a Briton. How could you support not having a unified British Isles?

Yes, my family is descended almost entirely (75%) from the British Isles as you call them. I am mostly Irish with some Scottish and English in me... my grandfather is Scottish/English and his family came to the US in the 1600s to live in Maryland under Lord Baltimore because of their persecution as Catholics. The rest of my family is German, Norwegian, etc, and I don't identify with those countries because it is such a small amount of my lineage. I identify primarily as Irish and Scottish... if you really want to, you can call me British, I don't care much. Your hypernationalistic, imperialist bullsh*t you are spreading around is frankly getting tiring.

And are you joking? British never did anything bad to the Irish? Do you know what the black and tans did to Irish people? Women were raped, young girls, my great grandmother one of them. Go spew your bullsh*t to the BNP or whatever other wackjob organization out there.

[General Goose]

QUOTE (myhame @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 19:17)

QUOTE (General Goose @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 19:13) The reasons Ireland should be independent are as follows: A) It's perfectly happy being independent B) We're perfectly happy it being independent. I, am not.

You're in a minority, then.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (myhame @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 20:09)

Yes, they are a member of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ireland should be taken under our control again. There were never any abuses as the ones the Irish and their idiotic descdents living in America such as the replier in this topic. I must ask you, you have Scottish blood, Irvding? That signifies that you are, in fact, a Briton. How could you support not having a unified British Isles?

I don't usually try and censor people with valid opinions in this section of the forum, but please do some actual research into what you are talking about, because you come across as a poorly-educated, self-righteous and pointlessly-nationalist imbecile. Seriously, explain to me where these view are coming from and what justification you have for holding and supporting them, because they're not only factually inaccurate and very juvenile, but they're also quite offensive.

[glenn tha killer]

QUOTE (myhame @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 19:09)

Yes, they are a member of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ireland should be taken under our control again. There were never any abuses as the ones the Irish and their idiotic descdents living in America such as the replier in this topic. I must ask you, you have Scottish blood, Irvding? That signifies that you are, in fact, a Briton. How could you support not having a unified British Isles?

stop your offensive crap I told people that I didnt want that also that is just plain stupidity as the other guy said do some research

[Talakua]

Rightly or wrongly, Northern Ireland is part of the UK politically. And at the end of the day, the majority of people of NI have let bygones be bygones, they are happy with the arrangement at present and want no more violence. End of discussion as far as im concerned. These IRA splinter groups have no credibility in the eyes of the general public, and are effectively just a self-serving, camo clad mafia who dont give a damn about the people of NI. The sooner these assholes are stamped out the better it will be for these islands of ours.

[myhame]

Why won't Ireland just become in the Commonwealth at least?

- No one-line posts. Another faux pas to add to the ever increasing list -

This post has been edited by sivispacem on Wednesday, Nov 9 2011, 09:19

[Bad Girls]

I think it should be 101% up to the people who live in Northern Ireland, whether they want to be part of the UK, part of the Irish Republic or even their own little country altogether.

I really don't think people who live in the mainland of the UK, Republic of Ireland or anywhere else like many of the so-called "Irish-Americans" in the USA for that matter should have an opinion (one that 'counts' at least). Why should people who don't even live there have a say in what happens or even dictate what happens?

Of course, the issue is that the people there are very divided about what they want and it won't be completely resolved any time soon. IMO.