[Magic_Al]

QUOTE (Orgasmic Orange @ Friday, Sep 9 2011, 18:11)

I read in a book called "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" in which one of the Houser brothers was interviewed, that changes to the final game are as follows: no elderly peds with walkers, no school children as peds, no usable school bus, no LC equivalent of the Twin Towers, new LAPD colouring for the Police Cars, no more Darkel as well. Also [possibly]no more usable planes other than the Dodo and no more plane hijacking. Also heard that one of Darkel's cut missions that wasn't given to a different player but entirely cut was to fly the Dodo into the Love Media Building... The Housers were living in Manhattan at the time and the events deeply affected them. Also blowing limbs off was removed from only the PS2 version of the game by default. The cheat code used to revert this is the only code in the game which does not notify.

The book doesn't actually go into quite that much detail on the edits. You can read the whole 9/11 section here

The book lists these changes:

QUOTE

Rockstar immediately removed any vestige of the World Trade Center's Twin Towers from the game. They changed the paint on the police cars from NYPD blue and white to LCPD black and white. And they completely excised a character who was an activist hell-bent on bringing down Liberty City's economy.

Nothing about planes or walkers or children. But it does confirm that there were twin towers in the game.



They couldn't make big changes to the map in a couple weeks. The quick fix would have been to replace the towers with different looking buildings. The Jefferson Street Credit Union Building, the tallest building in GTA III, was probably twin towers in the pre-9/11 version of the game. The towers were probably only approximate like the Empire State Building, but close enough. The Jefferson Street Credit Union Building has a strange, irregular footprint, like the modelers merged the two towers and maybe a third building analogous to WTC3 (Marriott) into one big building and altered the footprint. The complex includes a plaza with an abstract sculpture, as the WTC did, although the sculpture bears no close resemblance and maybe never did. It's just kind of similarly arranged. At least, it's hard to believe there would have been a WTC somewhere else in Liberty City and this building there too.



It's hard to guess exactly what the twin tower footprints might have been, but this is a possibility. I'm not going to try to guess the footprint of a possible WTC3 analogue in the northwest corner, but the entrance to the credit union as it is now may have been derived from that. I'm considering that the other building on the south end of the block is pretty elaborate, and so is the plaza with the sculpture. Those were probably not last-minute jobs. I think the post-9/11 changes are the credit union building, possibly the position of the skywalk on the north side, and the positions of trees.

EDIT: Also possible is that the building that's on the south end now was moved from a position between the towers. That gives the towers more credible space between them and I like it better.



This post has been edited by Magic_Al on Sunday, Sep 18 2011, 19:10

[OnePiece]

There are beta shots showing the construction site before 911. There was never the WTC in gta3.

Stop trying to add to gta3s history 10 years after the game came out, I dont know why people still make up so much bullsh*t about the game.

[Magic_Al]

QUOTE (OnePiece @ Sunday, Sep 18 2011, 17:14)

There are beta shots showing the construction site before 911. There was never the WTC in gta3. Stop trying to add to gta3s history 10 years after the game came out, I dont know why people still make up so much bullsh*t about the game.

My post just above yours, I quoted a book written by this guy who interviewed Sam Houser for hours and specifically covered 9/11 and what got changed in GTA III. I didn't think the WTC was in the game either, even in my posts earlier in this thread, but a guy who was able to ask the man himself says there was.

If we accept that fact, then the questions are, where was it, and what could they have done to change it in a few weeks between 9/11 and the game going gold master. It would have taken too long to create the construction site, and the construction site is used in missions which would also take too long to make. No f'ing way could that be put together in a couple weeks. The Jefferson St. Credit Union replacing the twin towers is the only theory that fits or makes sense.

[OnePiece]

There was NO WTC in GTA3.

[Magic_Al]

It's a conspiracy! They changed the old screenshots to hide the truth! Kidding. I stand corrected. Nice beta screen collection.

On a more serious note, 10 years ago right now, little more than a week after 9/11, it was possible that GTA III could have been cancelled altogether. Rockstar New York headquarters is in the part of Manhattan that was closed off for several days. It was literally a war zone. In the state of terror it was possible to believe no one would want to play a game like GTA again.

The book says the Houser brothers watched the attacks from an apartment on Thompson Street. Of course you can find videos of the attack shot from many places in the city, including Thompson Street. video.

Sometime in the next couple weeks is the 10th anniversary of Rockstar's decision to carry on with business, a decision everyone who was terrorized that day had to make at their own speed, that it would be OK to continue and try to get normalcy back.

[EternalAgony]

Honestly, the thing I find most chilling is that the missions Rockstar had planned for GTA III that were later removed were actually similar to what happened that day...

[dro0001]

They could have been in an even earlier build of the game.

[OnePiece]

The loch ness monster could have been in the earliest build of gta3, who the f*ck knows, the point is there is no proof.

[Filip454]

I think that WTC was definately in an earlier build of this game. Like around 2000 or something.

[SkyDan]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Wednesday, Sep 7 2011, 11:43)

I could be wrong but I think if world trade center esque structures were to exist in the GTA III Era universe they would have definitely been present in Liberty City Stories. And as Tyla said Liberty City in the III era is only partly based on New York. Secondly I'm pretty sure this topic is in the wrong section.

There are a lot of discussions on 911 lately.

The staunton construction site as there in Beta Map and the Twin towers were supposed to be near Beliville park near the other apartments.

Houser brothers are bit of strange and our knowledge regarding the beta is limited.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

The WTC wasn't in the final version - fact. OnePiece's screenshots prove there was the Fort Staunton construction site and that big building in Bedford point, but no trace of WTC - fact. Darkel's final mission 'Love Hurts', if at all existed, involved flying the plane into Donald's building, not the possible WTC - fact. The Housers planned to have WTC in the game - supposition, I will not believe there was to be a WTC until I hear this from their mouth myself.

So why should we be having all this discussion about something that possibly has never even been planned, if not simply did not exist?

Personally I think there was no WTC in the beta. Maybe planned originally, but not included even in the beta. Period.

[Magic_Al]

QUOTE (Arsen Vitiuk @ Thursday, Sep 22 2011, 12:06)

The WTC wasn't in the final version - fact. OnePiece's screenshots prove there was the Fort Staunton construction site and that big building in Bedford point, but no trace of WTC - fact. Darkel's final mission 'Love Hurts', if at all existed, involved flying the plane into Donald's building, not the possible WTC - fact. The Housers planned to have WTC in the game - supposition, I will not believe there was to be a WTC until I hear this from their mouth myself. So why should we be having all this discussion about something that possibly has never even been planned, if not simply did not exist? Personally I think there was no WTC in the beta. Maybe planned originally, but not included even in the beta. Period.

There was no WTC because the Jefferson Street Credit Union Building is Liberty City's version of the WTC, and the beta shots show it was always that way. It's the tallest building (taller than the real WTC in fact), it's kind of ugly, it's in the financial district, and it's at the southern end of the island. It's functionally equivalent to the WTC even though it's a different design. It's like other buildings that vaguely suggest a New York reference but don't match, because this Liberty City is not New York, just a generic East Coast city like Metropolis or Gotham City in comic books. So there never was twin towers, and they didn't have to change the JSCUB after 9/11 because it's different enough. I think the case is closed.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

Agree. The Union Bank is just a perfect replacement/equivalent/whatever for NYC's WTC.

That settles it. +1 to Magic_Al.

[Lazlow1]

Hello guys ! I wanted to tell you my theory about this. First of all, I don't know why you are looking for trails of the Trade in Liberty City, because it's still here ! One of you was talking about the WTC mod at the north of the Callahan Bridge. Well, don't install this mod and look at the original buildings. Isn't that a reference to the Trade ? Because all of the NYC landmarks in Liberty are only references. Look at Bedford Point, look at Belleville Park. None of the famous places is really explicit. And even if it's not, I don't think that the Trade would have a complete replica, with the whole complex. Because, before the 9/11, the Twin Towers weren't such important for the New Yorkers. That was more a touristic activity and the people in NYC thought that it was something ugly and too high for human. I can tell you, I live in NYC for ages. The Trade site adopted the importance it has today in the New Yorkers's heart only after its destruction. That's why I think that the complex's not so much remarquable in Liberty.

[ccrogers15]

editing the part from the book, this is how it may of been, some areas in beta likes streets i took out may of been gone in the final and in the final it was all replaced by random new stuff. Look how it could of been:



Also the subway near there its weird how its empty. Nobody walks through it. My theory is when the wtc site may of been in GTA 3 they also had the WTC underground mall and transportation hub. Maybe after 9/11 they quickly deleted everything in the spot and replaced things with new buildings, then they added a new subway there instead of the underground WTC mall and subway hub and when they did that they forgot to add ped spawn points.

This post has been edited by ccrogers15 on Friday, Nov 11 2011, 02:32

[BigAsHell856]

I remember reading back in the day, in Vice City you were able to fly planes, just like S.A.. but such 9/11 was still recently at the time they took that idea out...

I read so much things they cut out 3 and V.C, which only will have made them game's alot BETTER! but sh*t happens

[ccrogers15]

QUOTE (BigAsHell856 @ Friday, Nov 11 2011, 02:40)

I remember reading back in the day, in Vice City you were able to fly planes, just like S.A.. but such 9/11 was still recently at the time they took that idea out... I read so much things they cut out 3 and V.C, which only will have made them game's alot BETTER! but sh*t happens

you are able to fly planes in VC, and 3. Except gta 3`s dodo was purposely changed to be crap controls so we cant fly it. I flew it once for 2 hours and recorded it, i lost the vid though. It was on my old youtube that i deleted.

[BigAsHell856]

I mean more like S.A.. in vice city you can fly that one plane "the sea-plane", (not sure what else you will call it).. in S.A you fly a lot of planes and jets.. More freedom of planes is what I met to say... Sorry

[Lazlow1]

QUOTE (ccrogers15 @ Friday, Nov 11 2011, 02:30)

editing the part from the book, this is how it may of been, some areas in beta likes streets i took out may of been gone in the final and in the final it was all replaced by random new stuff. Look how it could of been: Also the subway near there its weird how its empty. Nobody walks through it. My theory is when the wtc site may of been in GTA 3 they also had the WTC underground mall and transportation hub. Maybe after 9/11 they quickly deleted everything in the spot and replaced things with new buildings, then they added a new subway there instead of the underground WTC mall and subway hub and when they did that they forgot to add ped spawn points.

Your interpretation of the Trade is completely upside-down you know. And even, the plaza was bigger than this. Staunton Island would have been a lot larger to get the WTC complex onto it.

[buzbegone]

QUOTE (Lazlow1 @ Friday, Nov 11 2011, 18:55)

QUOTE (ccrogers15 @ Friday, Nov 11 2011, 02:30) editing the part from the book, this is how it may of been, some areas in beta likes streets i took out may of been gone in the final and in the final it was all replaced by random new stuff. Look how it could of been: [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/a0vrk8.jpg[IMG] Also the subway near there its weird how its empty. Nobody walks through it. My theory is when the wtc site may of been in GTA 3 they also had the WTC underground mall and transportation hub. Maybe after 9/11 they quickly deleted everything in the spot and replaced things with new buildings, then they added a new subway there instead of the underground WTC mall and subway hub and when they did that they forgot to add ped spawn points. Your interpretation of the Trade is completely upside-down you know. And even, the plaza was bigger than this. Staunton Island would have been a lot larger to get the WTC complex onto it.

Hence those unexplained extra areas on Staunton Island at the North and South tips. North is most likely an airport but that can't just be all that's changed in the map.