[PrometheusX]

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 13:21)

QUOTE (vertical limit @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 15:16) QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 12:54) @ vertical limit - please realize that you're wrong. For your own sake. Care to explain. Yeah, as soon as you rationally explain to me why you believe in god. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to drink alcohol, eat bacon and f*ck women with my uncircumcised dick.

Whatever, Whatever.

Consider this:

QUOTE

If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

Care to explain now? I hope you don't say "Everything started by itself", another way, explain to me rationally why you don't believe in god.

This post has been edited by PrometheusX on Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:05

[K^2]

PrometheusX, there are hundreds of billions of stars in this galaxy alone. Most of them have planets. And you are trying to prove god's existence by mere fact that out of these trillions of planets one happened to be just right?

[Shayan Shaffey]

I only believe in God, no holy books, no prophets only god.

[PrometheusX]

QUOTE (K^2 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:22)

PrometheusX, there are hundreds of billions of stars in this galaxy alone. Most of them have planets. And you are trying to prove god's existence by mere fact that out of these trillions of planets one happened to be just right?

Oh I forgot, I still have thousands more if you want.

[vertical limit]

God is in our souls, hearts and body.

"nuff said!

[Marlowe.]

QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:27)

God is in our souls, hearts and body. "nuff said!

That is true. But remember: we put him there.

[Shayan Shaffey]

QUOTE (vertical limit @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 17:57)

God is in our souls, hearts and body. "nuff said!

Yep, that's what my stalker said

[vertical limit]

But still, you believe whatever you want, I ain't going to force you to convert your religion and what not, it is up to you.

[Craig]

"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favour."

I'm an atheist, I don't find the belief in God or religion useful nor realistic. I don't want to argue with anyone about it, and I don't want anyone telling me I'm wrong. It doesn't matter if you're Christian, Muslim or even atheist, don't thing your belief can sway the minds of others. You're wasting your time.

[GTAvanja]

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:00)

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 13:21) QUOTE (vertical limit @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 15:16) QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 12:54) @ vertical limit - please realize that you're wrong. For your own sake. Care to explain. Yeah, as soon as you rationally explain to me why you believe in god. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to drink alcohol, eat bacon and f*ck women with my uncircumcised dick. Whatever, Whatever. Consider this: QUOTE If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life. Care to explain now? I hope you don't say "Everything started by itself", another way, explain to me rationally why you don't believe in god.

First of all, the burden of proof is on religious people, not atheists. God doesn't exist until proven otherwise. I don't know if you noticed, but the list of things that god allegedly did is getting smaller by the minute.

So your argument for existence of god is the fact that Earth has ideal conditions for life? That quote clearly says that Earth is the only KNOWN planet with such conditions. You don't know every planet do you? What you're proposing here is an example of 'argument from ignorance'. Typical for religious people. I've heard it all a million times before. You don't know sh*t, so god must have done it!

The simple fact that Earth is capable of sustaining carbon based life forms proves only that it's capable of sustaining carbon based life forms. Nothing more than that. We wouldn't exist if it wasn't possible for us to exist. There is no creator, and there is no random chance. Sure, you can mathematically calculate the chances of life but that's not governed by chance. It's governed by natural laws of physics, chemistry and biology. We exist because we have to. It is impossible for us not to exist. We are the proof of that.

If god exists, then who created god? Oh, I guess god doesn't need a creator. We need a creator because we don't know how we came to be, but god doesn't. You wanna know why god doesn't need a creator? Because we know exactly how god came to be. We made him up. He's a product of our imagination.

I don't know how life began, but I don't pretend to know. If we were having this argument 2000 years ago you'd ask me something like "if god doesn't exist, then where does the rain come from, and the earthquakes, and storms herp-a-derp, durr!"

If we were happy with our own rationalization that god did everything, we would still live in f*ckin' caves. But for people like you that's totally acceptable I guess.

QUOTE

Oh I forgot, I still have thousands more if you want.

Please do try. I've heard every argument from religious people. And I learned one thing from them. They always attack with what they think is the best argument. So if what you already said is the best you can do, this is going to be a very one-sided discussion. But please continue. For my amusement.

This post has been edited by GTAvanja on Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:45

[goin-god]

GTAvanja at first I thought you were being a bit harsh for no reason, but I enjoyed your last post.
Added to respect list (sh*t I have to make a new one).

Ontopic:

I consider myself an atheist (although I think I can label myself as a secular humanist aswell)). I certainly do not beleave in gods.
I will probably expand on this later.

[Warlord.]

Can I ask you one thing vanja? What do you gain from this? Vertical just asked what your beliefs were, that's all. Why is it that you need to say he's wrong and that you're right? Do you feel a sense of superiority? A sense of greater intelligence?

Genuinely curious.

[PrometheusX]

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:40)

I don't know how life began, but I don't pretend to know. If we were having this argument 2000 years ago you'd ask me something like "if god doesn't exist, then where does the rain come from, and the earthquakes, and storms herp-a-derp, durr!"

So life just "began" that way, right? for example, the internet you are using right now just began, but you don't know how did it begin, right?

[GTAvanja]

QUOTE (Warlord. @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:51)

Can I ask you one thing vanja? What do you gain from this? Vertical just asked what your beliefs were, that's all. Why is it that you need to say he's wrong and that you're right? Do you feel a sense of superiority? A sense of greater intelligence? Genuinely curious.

I love debates about religion. I don't know why. We all have our thing I guess, and that's mine. I guess I'm also kinda hoping that maybe, just maybe one of them will realize how wrong it is to spend your entire life in fear of going to hell if you do what desert people from bronze age told you not to do. The same people who thought that Earth was flat and that every animal in the world lived in 5 mile radius from Noah.

[goin-god]

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 11:54)

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:40) I don't know how life began, but I don't pretend to know. If we were having this argument 2000 years ago you'd ask me something like "if god doesn't exist, then where does the rain come from, and the earthquakes, and storms herp-a-derp, durr!" but you don't know how did it begin, right?

That's what he said. Yes. Good to know you can read.

[PrometheusX]

QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:56)

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 11:54) QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:40) I don't know how life began, but I don't pretend to know. If we were having this argument 2000 years ago you'd ask me something like "if god doesn't exist, then where does the rain come from, and the earthquakes, and storms herp-a-derp, durr!" but you don't know how did it begin, right? That's what he said. Yes. Good to know you can read.

Oh. Good to know that you can edit posts.

[Typhus]

I believe in the Judaeo-Christian God but don't make excuses for him. Like any being, power has corrupted him. Or, he was always psychotic. The Christians tell us that we must not 'judge God by our own standards'. Well, why the Hell not? He's standing over us all and no matter how much we pray and beg and plead, most of us will lead a life of crushing mediocrity. I imagine it is amusing to him to see us squirm and implore him to give us a break.
To be frank, most of you probably have more compassion than he does. What evidence do we have of Gods 'infinite love' for us? A place where we will be eternally tortured if we step out of line? Giving us rules he can't follow himself? Dying for our sins so he could guilt us into mindless obedience? Or maybe the evidence of Gods love lies in how our every natural instinct is a sin.
Oh, pride is a sin, lust is a sin, anger is a sin.
How he must laugh when he sees the sheep buy into that bullsh*t. How funny it must be to torture the little people and use their own humanity to crush their individuality and turn them into spineless worms.

It is said that God is a jealous God. But he's not jealous. He's a sadist, he's the ultimate sadist. And if he respects anything at all, it's probably the man who doesn't prostitute his dignity for a chance at eternal life. I have never met a Christian I liked and I've been to so many Churches and spoke to so many of the loyal flock, that it's fair to say that I've given them ample chances to win my respect. God's a sadist and they're masochists.

It's hilarious. It's like battered wife syndrome. No matter how many times he rewards their faith with humiliation, pain and emotional blackmail, they just come crawling back for more!
"Oh, punish me God! Punish me more! HURT ME!"
I can understand why he does it. It is pretty funny.

[GTAvanja]

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:54)

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 14:40) I don't know how life began, but I don't pretend to know. If we were having this argument 2000 years ago you'd ask me something like "if god doesn't exist, then where does the rain come from, and the earthquakes, and storms herp-a-derp, durr!" So life just "began" that way, right? for example, the internet you are using right now just began, but you don't know how did it begin, right?

I love it how you completely ignored the rest of my post. You just chose one sentence that you think will gain you some credibility. Again, you're making an argument from ignorance (or in Latin argumentum ad ignorantiam just so that you don't think I made that up).
I already told you that I don't know how life began. Don't twist my words.

Mathematically, god doesn't have to exist.

If you say that god created everything, logical question would be 'who created god'. Now, religious people can answer with 'I dunno, lol' or the usual 'god doesn't need a creator'.

Well if god doesn't need a creator, why would the universe and life need one?
And the way I see it, we already know the universe exists. And we already know life exists. But there is no proof of god. Not a single one. So again, if god for whom there is no evidence doesn't need a creator, why do we need one? In that equation, god is like adding with 0. You can remove him from the equation and still come up with the same result.

[Robinski]

Anti-theists always bring science into the equation as if it's some anti-god. They say "Look at all this stuff, it just works. It just works without anyone interfering and it's beautiful in its own right." Why would it offend anyone for someone to say that the universe is beautiful and it works perfectly, someone did a real good job on it. It doesn't change the science at all. There doesn't have to be some divide. Faith and science are not incompatible.

I'm not so great at wording myself around these issues, but this video with Neil deGrasse Tyson (who I'm sure many sciencey people will know) sums it up pretty well.

[El Zilcho]

QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 15:04)

snip.

This is actually a brilliant observation from which you can discredit God and a lot of religious beliefs. Typhus has adequately summed up here how futile and convoluted religion can be. It's a moral code dreamt up by men through which we can conform to our society's ideas as to what is bad and good.

An example of this is sex. It is in no way a horrific sin; if it was, why would God base his humanity and all creatures survival on it?