There's much focus on THC, which, yes, is the active ingredient in Cannabis. But it's not the only chemical in it. The idea that it speeds up cell death cycles and therefore prevents cancer spread is one that's been studied a lot, and does appear to be true, but if you read many of those reports carefully, they're discussing "cannaboid-related" or "cannaboid derived" substances rather than THC itself. There's a huge distinction between a study that shows that smoking cannabis is good for you, and one that shows THC-derived chemicals can have a positive effect.
One of the reports I posted goes into some depth about cannaboids ability to suppress production of the chemical that discourages the formation of tumours. So it's by no means a scientific consensus.
I do base my views on the experiences of people I know who have used it regularly for prolonged periods of time. In the vast majority of cases, they've had no more serious consequences than smokers such as myself. But similarly, they've not experienced any tangible benefit from it, either. Others have experienced serious side effects such as paranoia, difficulty sleeping, anxiety, Parkinson-esque jitters and other mental issues- in fact a friend of mine killed themselves in Berkshire a few years ago, having been in an out of various hospitals and organisations, with paranoia and psychosis that not only doctors, but also the sufferer, were convinced was from prolonged cannabis use in their youth.
See the report I posted for examples of elevated risk of car accidents.
Oddly, I don't know a single person who experiences heightened senses when stoned. Interestingly, in the UK, there was a fashion a few years back for regular cannabis users to indulge in disassociative anaesthetics like Ketamine on a regular basis. I can certainly see similarities in the experience, especially at non-anaesthetic doses. Personally, I think you'd struggle to argue that either has any positive effect on the senses- but then again, a perception of heightened senses is very different to the reality.
Ganja has many cannabinoids other than THC, such as CBD, so it doesn't matter whether a study addresses THC or any other compound in ganja.
Paranoia, sleeping difficulties and anxiety can be cured with a high CBD strain of ganja.
Do you have proof that these people are experiencing these things because of ganja? While there are strains out there which can cause paranoia and anxiety (these strains are those developed by irresponsible breeders, i.e those who simply jack up the THC levels without realising the importance of other cannabinoids), but the paranoia and anxiety only lasts for as long as the person is high. It does not persist when the person is sober, this is something that anyone who smokes ganja can tell you.
I addressed the issue about your friend the last time we spoke about ganja. Ganja does not cause psychosis. It's proven. If your doctor or friend thinks it's ganja that caused the psychosis, they're simply wrong.
As for the car accidents, putting the report aside for a moment, can you mention some car accidents which involved stoned drivers? Like in this alcohol related driving accident?
Regarding the heightened senses, that is odd. Since heightened senses is a key property of a ganja high.
Edit:
QUOTE
as the majority of cannabis smokers mix the two and many of that number do not smoke cigarettes on the side.
Where are you getting these stats from? Mixing ganja with tobacco is something that is only practiced in certain areas of the world. For example, in the US the majority of ganja smokers don't mix tobacco with ganja.
This is exactly why people need to stop assuming that just because alcohol impairs one's mind, all substances that alter one's state of mind must also do the same. This is not the case.
This post has been edited by Warlord. on Tuesday, May 17 2011, 18:53
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 17 2011, 19:27)
I addressed the issue about your friend the last time we spoke about ganja. Ganja does not cause psychosis. It's proven. If your doctor or friend thinks it's ganja that caused the psychosis, they're simply wrong.
As for the car accidents, putting the report aside for a moment, can you mention some car accidents which involved stoned drivers? Like in this alcohol related driving accident?
Regarding the heightened senses, that is odd. Since heightened senses is a key property of a ganja high.
This is exactly why people need to stop assuming that just because alcohol impairs one's mind, all substances that alter one's state of mind must also do the same. This is not the case.
I'm sorry, but you really need to dig deeper into that report you posted. Here are some direct quotes from it's sources. Here's a direct quote from one of the articles it claims suggests that cannabis has no effect on driving ability or safety.
QUOTE (Effects of THC on driving performance @ physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol)
Both levels of THC cigarettes significantly affected the subjects in a dose-dependent manner. The moderate dose of alcohol and the low THC dose were equally detrimental to some of the driving abilities, with some differences between the two drugs. THC primarily caused elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort during the drive while alcohol tended to affect sleepiness level. After THC administration, subjects drove significantly slower than in the control condition, while after alcohol ingestion, subjects drove significantly faster than in the control condition. No THC effects were observed after 24 h on any of the measures.
I've already posted several articles that indicate cannabis can cause psychosis. What makes the article you posted so superior to mine that it is categorically right, and mine is categorically wrong? Care to find me a single study that indicates use of cannabis gives greater sensory input and makes you more aware?
Still, I side with the "legalise (with heavy restrictions) and tax" side of things.
Dear God, why?
Several reasons 1) Similarly to alcohol and tobacco, to cover the costs of the increased burden on the public healthcare system. People can bang on all they want about how cannabis has no negative health-related side effects but it simply isn't the case in the real world. 2) As others have said, it's a massive, multi-billion dollar/pound industry, and taxation on that industry could be highly beneficial. Nigh-on everything that's commercially available is taxed- to the tune of 20% in the UK. The price of a pint of beer is 68% tax. You just have to live with the fact that if something can potentially do harm, it will be taxed extensively. The only alternative is forcing people who require care because of aliments caused by the use of said substance to pay the full, unsubsidised cost of any care. 3) Do you really, honestly, imagine that those who produce and distribute it now sell it at cost price? At the end of the day, if I was a user, I'd rather some of the money was going to government, than all of it going to an industry with intrinsic connections to organised crime.
Restrictions always need to be put in place to deal with the lowest common denominator- the kind of person who goes to work in a machine shop stoned out of their mind and ends up loosing a limb. But IMHO, personal responsibility lies with the user, and if you're stupid enough to put yourself in that kind of situation you deserve whatever you get, without recompense. That said, there's potential for harming others as well. Take the example someone used earlier- driving whilst stoned. Just because you reaction times (the focus of the experiment) aren't as inhibited by THC as they are by alcohol doesn't mean it's okay to drive stoned. Put someone blazed out of their skin in a dangerous situation where they need to make a rational snap judgement, and you're likely to end up with a disaster.
I addressed the issue about your friend the last time we spoke about ganja. Ganja does not cause psychosis. It's proven. If your doctor or friend thinks it's ganja that caused the psychosis, they're simply wrong.
As for the car accidents, putting the report aside for a moment, can you mention some car accidents which involved stoned drivers? Like in this alcohol related driving accident?
Regarding the heightened senses, that is odd. Since heightened senses is a key property of a ganja high.
This is exactly why people need to stop assuming that just because alcohol impairs one's mind, all substances that alter one's state of mind must also do the same. This is not the case.
I'm sorry, but you really need to dig deeper into that report you posted. Here are some direct quotes from it's sources. Here's a direct quote from one of the articles it claims suggests that cannabis has no effect on driving ability or safety.
QUOTE (Effects of THC on driving performance @ physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol)
Both levels of THC cigarettes significantly affected the subjects in a dose-dependent manner. The moderate dose of alcohol and the low THC dose were equally detrimental to some of the driving abilities, with some differences between the two drugs. THC primarily caused elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort during the drive while alcohol tended to affect sleepiness level. After THC administration, subjects drove significantly slower than in the control condition, while after alcohol ingestion, subjects drove significantly faster than in the control condition. No THC effects were observed after 24 h on any of the measures.
I've already posted several articles that indicate cannabis can cause psychosis. What makes the article you posted so superior to mine that it is categorically right, and mine is categorically wrong? Care to find me a single study that indicates use of cannabis gives greater sensory input and makes you more aware?
Perhaps you should read the excerpt of the study you quoted again:
QUOTE
THC primarily caused elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort during the drive while alcohol tended to affect sleepiness level. After THC administration, subjects drove significantly slower than in the control condition, while after alcohol ingestion, subjects drove significantly faster than in the control condition.
Tell me now, how is elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort going to cause a car crash or make someone who's stoned run over people?
It also shows that people drive slower while stoned.
Basically, the people are aware of what's going on. They may not like driving while stoned, but this is subjective as I myself know many people who find driving while stoned to be really fun and don't experience any of this 'elevation in physical effort' or 'physical discomfort'.
Ganja doesn't cause psychosis or any mental illness. If you had any knowledge on the cannabinoids contained in the ganja plant and the properties of these cannabinoids you'd know this.
If you had gone through this study which I posted earlier, you would've seen this:
QUOTE
Despite the controversy surrounding the possible causal link between cannabis use and the onset of schizophrenia (SZ), data seeking to elucidate the effect of cannabis use disorders (CUDs) on the clinical presentation of SZ have produced mixed results. Although several studies have suggested that CUD in patients with SZ may be associated with variation in cognitive function, clinical presentation and course of illness, the effects have been inconsistent.
The aim of these researchers was to conduct a study free of inconsistencies on the effect of ganja on schizophrenia. What did they find out? Ganja really helped schizophrenics.
Tell me, how many people who smoke ganja have schizophrenia? Does anyone in the OFS have schizophrenia? What about Tommy Chong? Snoop Dogg? Wiz Khalifa? Jack Herer? Richard Lee? Ed Rosenthal? The list goes on and on.
These people are heavy smokers and have been smoking for the majority of their lives. How come they aren't displaying psychotic symptoms?
As for the elevation of senses, it's more of something you experience when you smoke ganja yourself. It's something almost everyone who smokes ganja experiences, so it's odd you didn't experience it.
On another note, take a look at this:
That's the power of ganja right there. Just imagine how many lives could be saved if ganja was legal? Are the government not basically killing people by keeping ganja illegal?
This post has been edited by Warlord. on Tuesday, May 17 2011, 21:25
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 17 2011, 22:03)
Tell me now, how is elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort going to cause a car crash or make someone who's stoned run over people?
It also shows that people drive slower while stoned.
Ganja doesn't cause psychosis or any mental illness. If you had any knowledge on the cannabinoids contained in the ganja plant and the properties of these cannabinoids you'd know this.
Only 4% of road accidents are caused solely by excessive speed. Besides, are you trying to imply that somehow elevated levels of physical effort, or discomfort, are beneficial to driving? Because they're not, their detrimental. That was what my principal point was- and it is demonstrated by the sources on the article you posted. "Low THC dose were equally detrimental to some of the driving abilities". There we are.
Your evidence is no more compelling than mine. I'm not going to believe you just because your more insistent about it. Again, you seem to be presenting it as if every heavy cannabis user develops schizophrenia. I've never said that it was guaranteed to cause mental illness, I never even implied it. I merely stated that according to the sources I had linked to, cannabis is responsible for drastically increasing the chances that certain people from certain backgrounds will develop mental illnesses- generally those with genetic history of mental illness.
Again, as I've said before, I'm always open to new evidence. I understand how much dispute there is around the issue, how many different contradictory reports and papers there are, and how difficult it is to establish effective test and control groups. However, I don't point-blank deny that there is a chance that cannabis could be essentially harmless. You can post as many studies as you like to support your case, as could I- though I've said all I'm going to on the subject. But I'd be more inclined to continue discussing if you didn't point-blank refute every point I was making, it makes it seem a little pointless to continue...
Tell me now, how is elevation in physical effort and physical discomfort going to cause a car crash or make someone who's stoned run over people?
It also shows that people drive slower while stoned.
Ganja doesn't cause psychosis or any mental illness. If you had any knowledge on the cannabinoids contained in the ganja plant and the properties of these cannabinoids you'd know this.
Only 4% of road accidents are caused solely by excessive speed. Besides, are you trying to imply that somehow elevated levels of physical effort, or discomfort, are beneficial to driving? Because they're not, their detrimental. That was what my principal point was- and it is demonstrated by the sources on the article you posted. "Low THC dose were equally detrimental to some of the driving abilities". There we are.
Your evidence is no more compelling than mine. I'm not going to believe you just because your more insistent about it. Again, you seem to be presenting it as if every heavy cannabis user develops schizophrenia. I've never said that it was guaranteed to cause mental illness, I never even implied it. I merely stated that according to the sources I had linked to, cannabis is responsible for drastically increasing the chances that certain people from certain backgrounds will develop mental illnesses- generally those with genetic history of mental illness.
Again, as I've said before, I'm always open to new evidence. I understand how much dispute there is around the issue, how many different contradictory reports and papers there are, and how difficult it is to establish effective test and control groups. However, I don't point-blank deny that there is a chance that cannabis could be essentially harmless. You can post as many studies as you like to support your case, as could I- though I've said all I'm going to on the subject. But I'd be more inclined to continue discussing if you didn't point-blank refute every point I was making, it makes it seem a little pointless to continue...
'Elevation in physical effort' and 'physical discomfort' isn't beneficial to driving, where did I say this?
But it's certainly not going to cause any car accidents. For example, if you're sober and your head starts itching while driving are you gonna drive into a tree?
Any experienced ganja smoker will tell you that 'elevation in physical effort' and 'physical discomfort' one might experience when stoned is negligible.
Like I've said numerous times now, there are countless studies which show that ganja does not cause any mental illnesses/psychosis:
Ganja is harmless. This is a fact. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you however.
And like I've said numerous times, there are just as many that indicates that they do cause mental illnesses. Like the ones I've posted previously
Look, there's really no point continuing this. You're going to keep insisting that somehow your reports are better than mine, I'm going to keep telling you that unlike you, I'm open to the idea of possibly being wrong and willing to consider other views. But just answer this- don't you feel you're being very closed-minded in denying the evidence that does exist according to some reports, and focusing only on the positive ones rather than those that do portray it as having a negative effect? Isn't that just as senseless as those who argue that "cannabis kills, full stop" when there's a wealth of evidence to suggest it doesn't?
Like I've said, my problem isn't the presentation of the reports suggesting cannabis is harmless or even beneficial. It's the way you portray everything you post as being 100% factually correct, when even the scientists who compose the papers you reference from accept that there's a degree of contention around the issue.
Ganja is harmless. This is a fact. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you however.
And like I've said numerous times, there are just as many that indicates that they do cause mental illnesses. Like the ones I've posted previously
Look, there's really no point continuing this. You're going to keep insisting that somehow your reports are better than mine, I'm going to keep telling you that unlike you, I'm open to the idea of possibly being wrong and willing to consider other views. But just answer this- don't you feel you're being very closed-minded in denying the evidence that does exist according to some reports, and focusing only on the positive ones rather than those that do portray it as having a negative effect? Isn't that just as senseless as those who argue that "cannabis kills, full stop" when there's a wealth of evidence to suggest it doesn't?
Like I've said, my problem isn't the presentation of the reports suggesting cannabis is harmless or even beneficial. It's the way you portray everything you post as being 100% factually correct, when even the scientists who compose the papers you reference from accept that there's a degree of contention around the issue.
Extremely well-said, although I'm sure Warlord will just dismiss it as usual.
Ganja is harmless. This is a fact. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you however.
And like I've said numerous times, there are just as many that indicates that they do cause mental illnesses. Like the ones I've posted previously
Look, there's really no point continuing this. You're going to keep insisting that somehow your reports are better than mine, I'm going to keep telling you that unlike you, I'm open to the idea of possibly being wrong and willing to consider other views. But just answer this- don't you feel you're being very closed-minded in denying the evidence that does exist according to some reports, and focusing only on the positive ones rather than those that do portray it as having a negative effect? Isn't that just as senseless as those who argue that "cannabis kills, full stop" when there's a wealth of evidence to suggest it doesn't?
Like I've said, my problem isn't the presentation of the reports suggesting cannabis is harmless or even beneficial. It's the way you portray everything you post as being 100% factually correct, when even the scientists who compose the papers you reference from accept that there's a degree of contention around the issue.
Like I said before, you're free to believe what you wish.
Ganja is harmless. This is a fact. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you however.
And like I've said numerous times, there are just as many that indicates that they do cause mental illnesses. Like the ones I've posted previously
Look, there's really no point continuing this. You're going to keep insisting that somehow your reports are better than mine, I'm going to keep telling you that unlike you, I'm open to the idea of possibly being wrong and willing to consider other views. But just answer this- don't you feel you're being very closed-minded in denying the evidence that does exist according to some reports, and focusing only on the positive ones rather than those that do portray it as having a negative effect? Isn't that just as senseless as those who argue that "cannabis kills, full stop" when there's a wealth of evidence to suggest it doesn't?
Like I've said, my problem isn't the presentation of the reports suggesting cannabis is harmless or even beneficial. It's the way you portray everything you post as being 100% factually correct, when even the scientists who compose the papers you reference from accept that there's a degree of contention around the issue.
Like I said before, you're free to believe what you wish.
Oddly, I don't know a single person who experiences heightened senses when stoned. Interestingly, in the UK, there was a fashion a few years back for regular cannabis users to indulge in disassociative anaesthetics like Ketamine on a regular basis. I can certainly see similarities in the experience, especially at non-anaesthetic doses. Personally, I think you'd struggle to argue that either has any positive effect on the senses- but then again, a perception of heightened senses is very different to the reality.
Totally agree with that. Being high always makes me very docile and my senses are relaxed, and my attention span decreases.
I do not believe it has been emphatically PROVEN that there isn't a link between cannabis and mental health issues, I'm sorry... but not all the buttons have been pressed, if you get me. especially with street bud the way it is.
It definitely shouldn't be legal commerically, only medically. I Believe in it medically.
If you turn this into a moral argument, you will never win. You're proposing violent coercion as a means to solve social problems (ie, social engineering). If that's what you want, you don't have a leg to stand on, ethically speaking. Since when are all of societies problems my responsibility as a tax payer?
QUOTE
Moral - Not everyone who smokes marijuana will become a drug addict, but every drug addict has smoked marijuana before.
Yeah, you're not going to start on heroin. What's your point?
Marijuana can have effects such as: -Poor memory (same with alcohol) -Lung cancer (same as cigarettes if you smoke it) -Throat cancer (dame as cigarettes if you smoke it)
A big thing is that it can trigger brain disorders such as Schizophrenia if it is there in your brain.
But that should be the individuals choice, with alcohol if there is liver cancer in your family its best if you lay off the alcohol, i don't see how marijuana is any worse than those two (alcohol and ciggies), in Holland they legalized it and marijuana use has not really increased.
I understand why crack, and heroin and speed are illegal, but marijuana is not so bad.
P.S it bugs me how people say there are absolutely no side effects, that is ignorance. It would be like me saying alcohol has no side effects whatsoever, the facts are there, its just facts about marijuana are distorted by more often than not users.
Ganja doesn't impair memory. I'm a heavy smoker and have been smoking for a while now, and my memory has actually got better, both short and long term. I find it much easier than before I started smoking to remember things. Ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus, which plays a major part in memory and learning.
The thing with memory for people who smoke ganja is that it's not that you can't remember things, it's just that some people don't pay attention to things that aren't really necessary. I have this after I started smoking ganja too, basically if there's something I want to remember, I'll remember it perfectly, but I no longer pay attention to things that are unnecessary. It's kinda hard to describe, but it's NOT memory impairment.
Ganja does not cause lung cancer (or any cancer for that matter), even if you smoke it. There has not been a single independent study which has linked smoking ganja to cause cancer. Infact, ganja is proven to cure lung cancer as well as throat cancer as well as help prevent all types of cancers.
Ganja does not cause schizophrenia. That's one of the stupidest lies anti-ganja organisations have come out with. Ganja has been proven to help schizophrenics much more than anything Big Pharma has on offer.
I mean let's forget the studies for a second, I haven't met a single person who smokes ganja and leads a healthy lifestyle whose memory is impaired, has been diagnosed with any sort of cancer (linked to ganja) or is a schizophrenic and I know a lot of heavy smokers.
Oh and while drinking and driving is not a wise thing to do, driving stoned is perfectly safe:
I know loads of people who drive stoned and they drive perfectly, some are amateur drivers as well.
In response to the topic, yes it should definitely be legalised.
Edit: a couple more studies about the great medicinal values of ganja:
I am not against marijuana but it bugs me how people say it is 100% harmless.
My older brother started smoking pot and developed schizophrenia a while after heavy use. There is a good chance he would have developed it anyway but smoking pot definitely did not help his cause. Pot does increase risk of lung cancer, especially if you roll joints with paper. Pot does affect your memory after time.
I think it should be legal but don't distort the facts.
Marijuana can have effects such as: -Poor memory (same with alcohol) -Lung cancer (same as cigarettes if you smoke it) -Throat cancer (dame as cigarettes if you smoke it)
A big thing is that it can trigger brain disorders such as Schizophrenia if it is there in your brain.
But that should be the individuals choice, with alcohol if there is liver cancer in your family its best if you lay off the alcohol, i don't see how marijuana is any worse than those two (alcohol and ciggies), in Holland they legalized it and marijuana use has not really increased.
I understand why crack, and heroin and speed are illegal, but marijuana is not so bad.
P.S it bugs me how people say there are absolutely no side effects, that is ignorance. It would be like me saying alcohol has no side effects whatsoever, the facts are there, its just facts about marijuana are distorted by more often than not users.
Ganja doesn't impair memory. I'm a heavy smoker and have been smoking for a while now, and my memory has actually got better, both short and long term. I find it much easier than before I started smoking to remember things. Ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus, which plays a major part in memory and learning.
The thing with memory for people who smoke ganja is that it's not that you can't remember things, it's just that some people don't pay attention to things that aren't really necessary. I have this after I started smoking ganja too, basically if there's something I want to remember, I'll remember it perfectly, but I no longer pay attention to things that are unnecessary. It's kinda hard to describe, but it's NOT memory impairment.
Ganja does not cause lung cancer (or any cancer for that matter), even if you smoke it. There has not been a single independent study which has linked smoking ganja to cause cancer. Infact, ganja is proven to cure lung cancer as well as throat cancer as well as help prevent all types of cancers.
Ganja does not cause schizophrenia. That's one of the stupidest lies anti-ganja organisations have come out with. Ganja has been proven to help schizophrenics much more than anything Big Pharma has on offer.
I mean let's forget the studies for a second, I haven't met a single person who smokes ganja and leads a healthy lifestyle whose memory is impaired, has been diagnosed with any sort of cancer (linked to ganja) or is a schizophrenic and I know a lot of heavy smokers.
Oh and while drinking and driving is not a wise thing to do, driving stoned is perfectly safe:
I know loads of people who drive stoned and they drive perfectly, some are amateur drivers as well.
In response to the topic, yes it should definitely be legalised.
Edit: a couple more studies about the great medicinal values of ganja:
I am not against marijuana but it bugs me how people say it is 100% harmless.
My older brother started smoking pot and developed schizophrenia a while after heavy use. There is a good chance he would have developed it anyway but smoking pot definitely did not help his cause. Pot does increase risk of lung cancer, especially if you roll joints with paper. Pot does affect your memory after time.
I think it should be legal but don't distort the facts.
I've already provided proof that ganja does not cause any of the things you mentioned. Go through all my posts and the evidence I've provided.
Ganja has been proven to not cause any mental illnesses here and here.
Ganja has been proven to really help schizophrenia.
Your brother did not develop schizophrenia by smoking ganja. Tell him to smoke a high CBD strain like R-4, Harlequin, Phnom Penh or Cannatonic and his schizophrenia will be gone. CBD is a very strong antipsychotic which is very effective at treating all mental illnesses. It is used to cure schizphrenia, ADHD, OCD, social anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc.
Rolling papers are made of non-carcinogenic materials such as ganja. Ganja has been proven to not cause lung cancer and has been proventocure lung cancer (just like how ganja can cure and prevent all types of cancers).
Ganja is provento cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus of the brain which is responsible for memory and learning. It improves memory. I'm one of the millions of living examples of this. Ganja is used by Alzheimer's patients to stop their memory from degenerating (as it causes neurogenesis), so I guess these patients are simply lying when they report that their memory has greatly improved eh?
No one is distorting the facts here, it's just that some people can't accept the fact that ganja is harmless and still haven't realised the cycle ganja has been going through in the world ever since it was made illegal:
1. Anti-ganja organisations make up a lie about ganja, usually something alone the lines that it severely affects one's health and therefore should be kept illegal and spread this lie
2. All anti-ganja people start using this lie as an argument as to why ganja is 'harmful' and should be kept illegal
3. Studies come out disproving these lies
4. Anti-ganja organisations abandon the lie to not discredit themselves
The cycle repeats in that order.
I'm sure that the people who think ganja causes mental illnesses, for example, are the same people who would have believed that it kills brain cells when the lie was being spread by anti-ganja organisations.
I mean take this whole lie about how ganja 'causes mental illnesses', anti-ganja organisations started spreading this lie after it was disproven that ganja causes brain damage and proven that ganja causes neurogenesis and has neuroprotective properties. What's happening now? Studies are coming out disproving these lies and are proving how ganja can cure mental illnesses anti-ganja organisations are saying it causes.
How many times have lies that say ganja is 'harmful' been disproven in the past?
When this lie is disproven completely, anti-ganja organisations will make up a new lie and start spreading it. This is what's been happening ever since ganja has been made illegal.
I truly can't believe that there are people who actually fall for these scare tactics, it's a good thing there are people in the world who know the truth about ganja and its harmlessness. All of you people who believe it is harmful, just remember the cycle I mentioned above.
This post has been edited by Warlord. on Wednesday, May 18 2011, 12:08
sonnez puis poussez Group: Leone Family Mafia
Joined: Sep 12, 2010
QUOTE (Melchior @ May 17 2011, 15:57)
QUOTE (TheCacti @ May 18 2011, 01:40)
There are grounds for a tax. It's a multi billion dollar industry and the more commerce it generates, the more society could benefit from even the smallest of taxes (e.g. schools, teachers' wages, parks, repairing roads, reducing the deficit, etc etc..)
And why is this our responsibility, specifically? If you feel that more money needs to be raised through taxation, then increase the sales tax, don't expect one group to pay disproportionate taxes.
I know this is a very late reply, but you deserve one at the very least.
It's our responsibility as citizens to care about the well being of our society and all its facets, especially education. I don't share your idea of "us and them" when it comes to contributing towards beneficial gov't programs. If I can make monetary contributions to programs designed for the well-being of an entire population with respect to each gram of herb that I consume, I would personally have no problem with it. Besides, I feel the price would virtually be the same post-tax as it is now if legalization were to occur. Legalization -> increase in production (i.e. much greater supply, paired with the idea that demand would be more or less the same. This is debatable, but let's be frank, people who want to smoke are already doing so, regardless of its illegality) -> drop in price. Then add the sales tax + specific tax and we're looking at a price that wouldn't be much different than what we're already paying, if not less. Difference in this case is, as sivispacem said: " [the money would be] going to government, than all of it going to an industry with intrinsic connections to organised crime." An improvement I'd say.
Nor do I share your view regarding the idea that smokers would be paying "disproportionate taxes" if marijuana were to be taxed. According to such logic, lots of other groups are being singled out in the same manner: property owners, wealthy people, higher income earners. Lots of different groups are already paying disproportionate taxes with respect to other groups of people. Weed smokers aren't that special.
QUOTE (Melchior)
If you're for legalising marijuana with tax, then you're for a marijuana tax on top of the sales tax. If you're just talking about sales tax, you don't need to explicitly state that you're in favour of it, all transactions require sales tax and weed would be no exception. I'm for treating it like a normal commodity.
I'll admit that after reading your first posts on the subject of taxation I was under the impression that you're against even a sales tax, which is an inane idea, and that's what prompted me to give the response I did. I must've misinterpreted what you'd written, my mistake.
But the fact of the matter is, it's not just a normal commodity. It's a psychoactive substance that can sometimes inflict long-term repercussions on one's health, and should be treated accordingly. Sivispacem really hit the nail on the head with his "several reasons" post a page ago about the affect and burden it'd have on the healthcare system and the need to compensate for it.
QUOTE (Melchior)
Saying you're for legalising weed with restrictions implies that you're in favour of it not being allowed in public, or only allowing certain companies to produce it, or only letting individuals buy a certain amount at a time or some other arbitrary measures that do nothing positive. Legalise it without restrictions and the appropriate restrictions will appear where necessary, just like with literally everything else.
That's a fair point and I can easily reason with it. I'll be honest and say that I'm not even sure where I stand on this issue, because I see many positives and negatives alike. But ultimately I think for a substance that can alter the way people think and behave really ought to have some restrictions with its use in public places, driving being a major one.
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 13:06)
How many times have lies that say ganja is 'harmful' been disproven in the past?
Oh, about as many times as studies have proven there are links between it and various illnesses.
I honestly don't know how you can be so narrow-minded and deluded as to ignore all the evidence that does suggest it has negative effects. It's utterly absurd that you don't seem to understand that there is a chance that it is dangerous. You are no better and no less deluded than those people who claim it's dangerous without good reason. In fact, you're essentially the same. I just can't take anything you say seriously, your attitude to the entire thing is so stupidly closed-minded. Just because you can find some reports saying it has beneficial effects does not mean that that is catagorically the case, just the same as those articles that draw links between it and lung cancer or mental illness do not mean that it is dangerous in all cases and all circumstances.
All I can tell you is to remember the cycle I mentioned when the lies that are currently being spread by anti-ganja organisations are disproven. They're already disproven anyway.
Wilderness of Mirrors Group: The Connection
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QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 14:42)
All I can tell you is to remember the cycle I mentioned when the lies that are currently being spread by anti-ganja organisations are disproven. They're already disproven anyway.
Well how about the articles that dispute those articles then? Just because there isn't scientific consensus on an issue doesn't give a sensible, impartial observer the impression that one side is categorically right, and the other is categorically wrong. All you do by completely ignoring the legitimate research on one side of the argument is weaken your own position. You claim you have provided "proof"- well, in the scientific world, the conclusions of a paper are not proof, they are theory, as no paper can be large enough, no study in enough depth, to explore all the possible circumstances that could alter the effects of substances. So no, you've not provided proof. You've provided evidence to support your argument, but it's not proof any more than the evidence I've supported my arguments with hast been.
what Group: Andolini Mafia Family
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I have a question which most likely a lot of you have the answer to; does Marijuana change your voice? I know cigarettes do but does cannabis have the same effect?
South Yorkshire - mass murderer - How can you sleep at night? Group: BUSTED!
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QUOTE (blitz. @ May 18 2011, 19:05)
I have a question which most likely a lot of you have the answer to; does Marijuana change your voice? I know cigarettes do but does cannabis have the same effect?
Smoking usually affects range first -- after smoking for a while you'll notice you have a harder time hitting the high notes or the low ones.
Marijuana smoke is not as bad as tobacco smoke, but it's still smoke. The smoke is harsher and harder on your lungs/larynx if you don't separate your weed very well and there's any stems/etc left in it. If you want to preserve your voice, try using a vaporizer, or even better -- cook with it and let your digestive system absorb it instead of your lungs.
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A great deal depends on physical health. While the vocal chords are not muscles, they are attached to muscles and tendons and of course your lungs and diaphragm play a huge amount to breath control. If you are over tired, ill, worn out, all of these take a toll on your muscles.
The human body and lungs have a wonderful ability to self-clean. All those 10's of thousands of years living in the caves with smokey fires. This doesn't mean you should add more smoke and pollutants to your system, just pointing out that the body can remove a great deal of toxins and smoke when it is healthy and rested.
Smoking pot once a week shouldn't have an effect on your voice -- though I wouldn't sing right after smoking as your throat is irritated at that point by heat and particulate matter.
And that is in fact the culprit you want to avoid whenever possible. And yes, drinking cool (not cold) water between puffs works well to keep the natural protective swelling down to a minimal.
Damage to the vocal chords comes from swelling and then rubbing of the chords. Avoid this and you can protect the chords.
Naturally if you are using your chords to sing Grand Opera and you are a High tenor or Coloratura, I would advise not smoking at all but I don't think that is the variety of singing you are interested in.
