[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Noob_Noobersson @ Tuesday, May 15 2012, 01:09)

Scientists have found evidence that drug dependence can be linked to the presence of certain genes in humans....so it is in our genes. Also....the fact that humans are built the way we are is due to our genetic make-up...so therefore, our curiosity and our ability to explore the world in a way unique from all other species---this allows us to use drugs unlike any other animal.....Drug use is uniquely human--therefore, in our genes.

Tenuous link here. Saying "some people are genetically predisposed to addiction" and "humans like to alter their perception of their surroundings" is a far cry from "humans are genetically hard-wired for illicit drug use". On that basis, that element of your argument is not logical.

I also object to three other statements you make.

Firstly, the idea that your personal experiences of a drug mean it therefore is not harmful. The very fact that illicit substances affect someone's mental state should tell you that there is no real uniform way in which people react. So you cannot accurately claim that a drug is harmful or otherwise based solely on personal experience. For instance, Ricky Kasso committed a murder whilst high on acid and pcp. There is debate about how great the influence of the drugs were in his attack but it doesn't therefore follow that your experiences of acid indicate it is harmless.

Secondly, what about drugs that have an incredibly high abuse rate? I have yet to find a single person who can make a convincing argument for the decriminalising of a-methylfentnyl. I completely understand that there are some drugs which the criminalisation of is counterproductive but your sweeping generalisations are incredibly unhelpful. This in itself leads to issues. 2C-B is commonly regarded as quite harmless, yet 2C-I and the various 2C-T derivatives are much more potent with serious side effects. How do you protect people against one whilst decriminalising the other when they're 90% chemically identical?

Finally, whilst I do agree that decriminalisation restricts two serious harms (criminal activity/organised crime and purity) it in itself does absolutely nothing to limit personal crime due to addiction. How does it, for instance, stop heroin or meth addicts from stealing to fund their habit?

This post has been edited by sivispacem on Monday, May 28 2012, 07:52

[Icarus]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, May 15 2012, 02:44)

Firstly, the idea that your personal experiences of a drug mean it therefore is not harmful.

To be fair, I did give a piss poor example with tripping on LSD and the user going out and stabbing someone, since it was a bit too extreme (and at least you could give a real life example); I have no knowledge of how one reacts to illicit drugs, with the exception of marijuana - I just have what I've read briefly around the 'net or through hearsay. Regardless, the point I tried getting across (which you got) was that the laws are there for the protection of society as a whole as opposed to just the individual person.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

[EDIT] Grammar.

This post has been edited by Icarus on Tuesday, May 15 2012, 19:02

[*MURDOC*]

Anyone who states the effects of any kind of drug based solely on personal experience obviously doesn't know how drugs "work".

Any drug can affect a person in a completely different way than others.
I've smoked weed with hundreds of people who have had no ill effects, but I know a good handful of folks who wig out if they smoke, everything from shortness of breath to crippling anxiety.

And that's "just weed".

If something so basic can cause certain people such trouble, you could imagine the way strong drugs can affect different people in various ways, be they good or bad.

There's a big difference between reaching personal enlightenment and trapping yourself in a personal hell.
Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to know what's going to happen until it's happening, which is a risk not everyone is willing to take, but sadly, it's also a risk that a lot of people don't even seem to be aware of.

"Well, he did it, so I should be fine..." is actually a pretty dangerous mindset.

[stroud458]

A message to anyone who thinks Cannabis should be legal:

You are all f*cking idiots!

Honestly, you think that Cannabis should be allowed? It turn the country into a mass group of Smackheads who want nothing more than to puff themselves to death. It would further increase the already large drug problem that has gripped the country. This would make more and more younger people try drugs, thus making everyone paranoid mentalists by their teens.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 22:00)

A message to anyone who thinks Cannabis should be legal: You are all f*cking idiots! Honestly, you think that Cannabis should be allowed? It turn the country into a mass group of Smackheads who want nothing more than to puff themselves to death. It would further increase the already large drug problem that has gripped the country. This would make more and more younger people try drugs, thus making everyone paranoid mentalists by their teens.

Two things-

1) Please abide by the rules of the subforum. If you aren't going to make reasonable, logical and intelligent contributions, then please do not post.

2) If your going to post absolute bullsh*t, at least attempt to substantiate it with something close to evidence rather than just claiming absurd things without rhyme or reason.

[stroud458]

Absolute bullsh*t. What's you reasoning for that....

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 22:07)

Absolute bullsh*t. What's you reasoning for that....

1) You presented no evidence to support your idea that cannabis use leads to addiction to harder drugs. You claim this as if it were factual, but don't actually indicate where you get the basic idea from, or any statistics you have to support it.

2) In relation to 1) the rates of addition to hard drugs in societies with lax attitudes to soft drug use are actually lower than those in societies which see widespread criminalisation of soft drugs, which could be perceived as an indicator that in actuality legalisation of soft drugs has a deterrent effect on the use of harder ones. Case in point- compare drug addiction rates in Scandinavia (pick a country, any country) and the United States, per 100,000 citizens. Similar cannabis use rate, very different attitudes towards its use, and very different addiction figures- vastly higher in the US.

[stroud458]

Show me the quote where I said Cannabis leads to harder drugs....

[sivispacem]

How about this one?

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 22:00)

Honestly, you think that Cannabis should be allowed? It turn the country into a mass group of Smackheads

Or do you not know what "smackhead" actually refers to? If you don't, which this would seem to indicate, please refrain from posting.

[lil weasel]

From what I 'think' I know about [Cannabis], yes, it should be in the same class as alcohol.
IT would be nice if they could put a distinctive odor into it. [that's a joke, about the odor.]

This post has been edited by lil weasel on Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:37

[stroud458]

Smackhead generally refers to heroin, but is also a collective term for people who use any type of drug. I know this because of the drug awareness coarse I have taken.

[DeeperRed]

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:32)

Smackhead generally refers to heroin, but is also a collective term for people who use any type of drug. I know this because of the drug awareness coarse I have taken.

Well ofcourse there going to fill you full of sh*t on a drug awareness course.
You are aware you can use drugs responsibly ? Sounds crazy I know but surprisingly millions of people manage to do it....

[stroud458]

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:41)

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:32) Smackhead generally refers to heroin, but is also a collective term for people who use any type of drug. I know this because of the drug awareness coarse I have taken. Well ofcourse there going to fill you full of sh*t on a drug awareness course. You are aware you can use drugs responsibly ? Sounds crazy I know but surprisingly millions of people manage to do it....

By looking at your post and your signature, I think it is safe to presume that you are indeed yourself a "Druggie" Is that correct?

[DeeperRed]

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:44)

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:41) QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:32) Smackhead generally refers to heroin, but is also a collective term for people who use any type of drug. I know this because of the drug awareness coarse I have taken. Well ofcourse there going to fill you full of sh*t on a drug awareness course. You are aware you can use drugs responsibly ? Sounds crazy I know but surprisingly millions of people manage to do it.... By looking at your post and your signature, I think it is safe to presume that you are indeed yourself a "Druggie" Is that correct?

If by that then you mean use illegal drugs then that's correct. Don't know what this has to do with discussion or the fact that millions of people use drugs responsibly.

[stroud458]

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:47)

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:44) QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:41) QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 21:32) Smackhead generally refers to heroin, but is also a collective term for people who use any type of drug. I know this because of the drug awareness coarse I have taken. Well ofcourse there going to fill you full of sh*t on a drug awareness course. You are aware you can use drugs responsibly ? Sounds crazy I know but surprisingly millions of people manage to do it.... By looking at your post and your signature, I think it is safe to presume that you are indeed yourself a "Druggie" Is that correct? If by that then you mean use illegal drugs then that's correct. Don't know what this has to do with discussion or the fact that millions of people use drugs responsibly.

What do you class a responsible use?

[DeeperRed]

I class responsible use as the ability to use a drug when it is appropriate (so not at work, driving etc) you are not dependent on it and you don't go overboard with the dosage. If you can manage these three then I would class it as responsible.Thats very much long term responsibility

As for responsibilities while under the drug, well its dependent on the drug, however there a some pretty easy rules for each type. If its hallucinogenic, have a sitter and if its a stimulate remain hydrated. Its just about knowing what your getting into and knowing how to deal with it.

Also there is amount of usage, which again varies across all drugs. You can smoke weed regularly to no ill effect. However MDMA, due to its usage of serotonin, could be detrimental to your health if used too regularly.

Its not hard to be responsible and have loads of fun with them.

[Irviding]

Just to let you know, stroud, no one has ever died from marijuana use as you seem to think "the whole country" would if it were legalized.

[MIKON8ERISBACK]

Marijuana is worse than tobacco. It's riddled with metals such as mercury and lead, and contains chemicals such as hydrogen cyanide (also found to a lesser extent in tobacco), arsenic, and a number of other carcinogens.

[El_Diablo]

I wouldn't reply to Stroud or MIKON8ERISBACK.
they sound like they're trolling.

either that or they are VERY ignorant about marijuana.

[MIKON8ERISBACK]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 17:26)

I wouldn't reply to Stroud or MIKON8ERISBACK. they sound like they're trolling. either that or they are VERY ignorant about marijuana.

I love how whenever I say something that you disagree with (which is virtually everything) I'm automatically a troll or "ignorant". You probably don't even know what a troll is.

It is a proven fact that marijuana contains both neurotoxins and carcinogens in a higher amount than most tobacco cigarettes, in addition, it makes entire buildings smell literally like a variant of sh*t. I constantly have to breath in the fumes when I go to the bathroom at my school. It makes people wanna puke.