[Jeeebuuus]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 11:26)

Jeebus,agreed but it's not that there is no record, it's that there are none period.

Well yeah as far as overdosing on herb, from my understanding, there isn't a single recorded case in medical history. I was trying to say perhaps accidents like tripping and falling down the stairs when high and breaking ones neck. Small number.

[Suihkubad]

This article

Whats the problem admitting that you want pot legal to get intoxicated instead of talking all this crap about it being a medicine and sh*t? In my opinion keeping any drugs illegal have not done any good for anybody and in a "free" country you should be able to do anything to yourself if you are not hurting anybody else

[Irviding]

QUOTE (Suihkubad @ Friday, Dec 23 2011, 15:54)

This article Whats the problem admitting that you want pot legal to get intoxicated instead of talking all this crap about it being a medicine and sh*t? In my opinion keeping any drugs illegal have not done any good for anybody and in a "free" country you should be able to do anything to yourself if you are not hurting anybody else

But it is medicine...? And people get high regardless. That's not the reason people support legalization.

[Sean_R_LFC]

QUOTE (goin-god @ Tuesday, May 17 2011, 03:30)

ZDANZ96 is just 15 years old. He has no idea of how th world works. He will begin to understand when he gets older and starts to get his own ideas.

I know way back page 2 blah blah blah but I am 15 same as him and I don't think age is the problem here he seems severly misinformed, it's the simple matter of educating oneself but yeah like you said own ideas and whatnot.

On topic, yes the world #1 medicine, fuel, fiber, and erm intoxicant? surely it should be legal, especially in the current financial climate

[mascotefera]

my school normal uses drugs

Brazill lol

[DeeperRed]

I am really tired of people constantly using its medical properties as an argument for its legalization. Codiene, Oxycotin and Ritilin are all medicines but there not exactly legalized because of the abuse potential. By using the medicine argument then it could be said that instead of legalization everywhere should just adopt the medical marijuana way some of the states have. It also annoys me people try and justify there want to get high by claiming "It helps people with cancer", again a vaild reason for it to become medical but not legal.

As a regular smoker of marijuana, my argument for legalization is that the punishments for some are far worse then the negative effects it could have. I.e. A father of 2 who is the breadmaker for the family occasionally smokes a bit of weed on the weekends. One day he is caught, he is arrested and charged for possession. His employers are informed and he is fired, he is also fined a fair amount for the charge. He now has no job, little prospects due to a lack of a reference and three mouths to feed. All the weed did was get him high for a few hours and relax him a bit however the punishment had far worse effects.

I remember when I was found out at school for being a smoker of weed. They were threating expulsion, however I managed to sway it to a suspension as I used the above argument. All the weed did was make me high, my grades were good and all so the only bad effect it was going to have was the expulsion but that wasn't from the drug itself but from there enforcement against it. Though I had to quit for a while due to regular test, never found the acid though the bastards!

This post has been edited by DeeperRed on Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 21:35

[SagaciousKJB]

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 14:08)

I am really tired of people constantly using its medical properties as an argument for its legalization. Codiene, Oxycotin and Ritilin are all medicines but there not exactly legalized because of the abuse potential. By using the medicine argument then it could be said that instead of legalization everywhere should just adopt the medical marijuana way some of the states have.  It also annoys me people try and justify there want to get high by claiming "It helps people with cancer", again a vaild reason for it to become medical but not legal. As a regular smoker of marijuana, my argument for legalization is that the punishments for some are far worse then the negative effects it could have. I.e. A father of 2 who is the breadmaker for the family occasionally smokes a bit of weed on the weekends. One day he is caught, he is arrested and charged for possession. His employers are informed and he is fired, he is also fined a fair amount for the charge. He now has no job, little prospects due to a lack of a reference and three mouths to feed. All the weed did was get him high for a few hours and relax him a bit however the punishment had far worse effects. I remember when I was found out at school for being a smoker of weed. They were threating expulsion, however I managed to sway it to a suspension as I used the above argument. All the weed did was make me high, my grades were good and all so the only bad effect it was going to have was the expulsion but that wasn't from the drug itself but from there enforcement against it. Though I had to quit for a while due to regular test, never found the acid though the bastards!

The problem with comparing cannabis and the problems that it presents with "abuse" to the other drugs you've mentioned and the problems they present with "abuse", is that cannabis is relatively innocuous. A lot of those other drugs you've mentioned are extremely easy to overdose on, are very habit forming and quite easy to develop a physical dependency to. Marijuana may be habit forming to a certain extent, but again relatively speaking, you're basically talking about drugs there that are similar to heroin in their potency and abuse potential. Not to mention that a lot of the pharmaceutical blended types include acetaminophen along with them, which is extremely hard on the liver--something that is not at all good when considering how habit forming they are. I mean, I know the point you're making ( just 'cause it's medicinal doesn't mean it's good ), but I think the real thing to consider is why are all those drugs considered safer? I mean, that should really point out to people that, "Hmm, these guys don't know what the hell they're talking about" and get the government to change it.

I think people get too caught up in the whole "harmless" argument. In reality it is habit forming and as pretty much everything, it can present problems if abused and used in excess. The difference is that at least in the U.S., it is specifically classified as a drug which is "dangerous" and has "no therapeutic value". Whereas your opioid derived pain killers and analgesics are classified in the section just below, which is "dangerous, but with therapeutic value" because of their pain relieving potential. There are numerous other drugs that belong in this category that are more more dangerous than marijuana. Some would even argue that many of the over the counter remedies we have can be more harmful in the long run or if overdosed on--thousands of people overdose on aspirin every year, and as I said acetaminophen (main ingredient in Tylenole ) is very hard on the liver.

What it basically comes down to ( for me anyway) is whether or not marijuana ( THC, but there are other active chemicals to consider ) actually causes physical dependency. Pretty much all of those other types of pain relievers ( in your scheduel II category) have significant abuse potential and pretty much will lead to physical dependency, which is why it's actually important to wean off of them gradually. There has simply never been any study that demonstrates an effect like this with marijuana. There might be a handful of actual recorded fatal overdoses--most of which are highly disputed and some might contribute to other factors. In contrast, these drugs that are supposedly safer, cause thousands of overdoses every year and millions more abuse and addiction cases. Oxycontin for example is called "hillbilly heroin" for a reason.

I think the major elephant in the room here is that there is a major discrepancy between the actual amount of harm that marijuana can actually do, and the way it is legislated and classified in relation to other drugs--and let's not even talk about alcohol or tobacco. This is the one thing that people just cannot ignore and why they cannot put the nail in the coffin and remove doubt from people. This is also why they create so much lofty gutter science trying to fabricate some kind of irreparable harm that it does to go, "There, look, it's too dangerous." Regan started it out by suffocating a bunch of monkeys and saying it caused brain damage, and more recently the UK has picked up the slack by releasing studies linking it to schizophrenia. On top of that you even have the new line that, "Oh, it is so much more potent now, it's not like the harmless grass we smoked," clouding people's judgment on it as well. There's basically a frenzied grasping at straws to find something wrong with it.

I think it might help the case of people who want it decriminalized if they stopped harping on the medicinal benefits too. However, as I pointed out with the way drug scheduling works, it's one of the best arguments for why it shouldn't be scheduled the way it is. Ultimately though I think that detracts from the real reasons why it shouldn't be illegal. The problem is you have the government and the "official authorities" coming in and basically blowing smoke up society's ass about the "dangers" of it and why it has to remain illegal. So go figure that after 70 years of that, people have just decided to start blowing their own smoke.

The way I see it going now... The activists, nor the politicians, nor the civil disobedient will be the first to start really changing things--it's too late, it's all been tried before. The snake-oil vendor will. The more people get sick of hearing the official, easily discredited story of how bad it is, and keep hearing this, "Oh, it will cure this and that and this and the other thing" while knowing full well how relatively harmless it really is, that's going to be the major factor in swaying voters to care and change things. That's why people harp on the medicinal side of it so much, and you can see it in progress too all over the U.S. in states that have adopted medical laws. I guess it is a good way to get their foot in the door for people to start considering even greater change as well.

A lot of the current medical applications of marijuana are actually true (and are historically documented even back to ancient times), but as far as it curing cancer and any other conceivable ailment though... Snake-oil. I hope in 100 years we haven't replaced that with "hash oil", but the way we're just carelessly going about touting it as some magical cure I'm afraid that might happen sooner and just discredit the entire amount of progress we've made.

So yeah... On the one hand... I think that talking about its medicinal benefits is one of the best things that we're going to be able to do to reach change. On the other hand I think that if we keep carrying on and touting it as some kind of magical cure-all medicine, that eventually its not going to live up to the hype and all the change will be for nothing. It's kind of a delicate balance.

[DeeperRed]

Agree with pretty much everything you have written, I am not discrediting the medical effects of cannabis, I am just saying its not right to use its medical reasons as a justification to get blazed on a friday night. The argument it helps people thus it must be legalized is a very stupid one but its one that many people seem to use, most of which arn't using it for its medical purposes but rather its recreational ones which there is nothing wrong with, but just don't try and hide behind its medical benefits.

I wouldn't say the schizophrenia links were recent, unless your recent in time-span of 20 years. They fail to mention in most of these studies that it does not create schizophrenia but brings out schizophrenia that is already present, which understandable as sometimes I can suffer from some bad paranoia when there is something on my mind. Though its still not a reason for it to be illegal, its like a rollercoaster can cause a heart-attack if you have a weak heart.

The addiction argument, is weak aswell as you can develop a mental addiction to anything the only problem is that many people (including myself) use weed as a time killer and if you are weak minded you can start doing it more and more frequently. However if weed wasn't there I am sure for most they would fill the gap with something else like drinking etc

This post has been edited by DeeperRed on Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 23:00

[Guns N R0se]

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 22:50)

Agree with pretty much everything you have written, I am not discrediting the medical effects of cannabis, I am just saying its not right to use its medical reasons as a justification to get blazed on a friday night. The argument it helps people thus it must be legalized is a very stupid one but its one that many people seem to use, most of which arn't using it for its medical purposes but rather its recreational ones which there is nothing wrong with, but just don't try and hide behind its medical benefits. I wouldn't say the schizophrenia links were recent, unless your recent in time-span of 20 years. They fail to mention in most of these studies that it does not create schizophrenia but brings out schizophrenia that is already present, which understandable as sometimes I can suffer from some bad paranoia when there is something on my mind. Though its still not a reason for it to be illegal, its like a rollercoaster can cause a heart-attack if you have a weak heart. The addiction argument, is weak aswell as you can develop a mental addiction to anything the only problem is that many people (including myself) use weed as a time killer and if you are weak minded you can start doing it more and more frequently. However if weed wasn't there I am sure for most they would fill the gap with something else like drinking etc

You'd be surprised how many people are addicted to weed. I do an internship at a parole office and SO many of the "clients" test positive continuously because they can't stop smoking.

[Jeeebuuus]

QUOTE (Guns N R0se @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 04:55)

QUOTE (DeeperRed @ Wednesday, Jan 18 2012, 22:50) Agree with pretty much everything you have written, I am not discrediting the medical effects of cannabis, I am just saying its not right to use its medical reasons as a justification to get blazed on a friday night.  The argument it helps people thus it must be legalized is a very stupid one but its one that many people seem to use, most of which arn't using it for its medical purposes but rather its recreational ones which there is nothing wrong with, but just don't try and hide behind its medical benefits. I wouldn't say the schizophrenia links were recent, unless your recent in time-span of 20 years. They fail to mention in most of these studies that it does not create schizophrenia but brings out schizophrenia that is already present, which understandable as sometimes I can suffer from some bad paranoia when there is something on my mind. Though its still not a reason for it to be illegal, its like a rollercoaster can cause a heart-attack if you have a weak heart. The addiction argument, is weak aswell as you can develop a mental addiction to anything the only problem is that many people (including myself) use weed as a time killer and if you are weak minded you can start doing it more and more frequently. However if weed wasn't there I am sure for most they would fill the gap with something else like drinking etc You'd be surprised how many people are addicted to weed. I do an internship at a parole office and SO many of the "clients" test positive continuously because they can't stop smoking.

Weed isn't generally a physiological addiction like heroin or alcohol. It is more psychological and more easy to cure. You only have to look at the negative affects of weed vs. alcohol to see which is the worse drug. Its no contest.

[Gtaghost22]

Simple Answer: No!

-One sentence posts not permitted in this forum-

This post has been edited by sivispacem on Monday, Jan 30 2012, 09:11

[*MURDOC*]

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 03:41)

Simple Answer: No!

Simple answers are for simpletons.

If you want your opinion to be heard and want to be taken seriously, I'd suggest putting a bit more effort into your reply to avoid looking like a loose wingnut.

[Chunkyman]

Yes. I think that weed being illegal causes a load of problems for society because prohibition of it is s reason we have so many gangs. If it were legal and regulated, the scrutiny of the market would end all of the gang related issues involving pot and improve the safety of the product.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (*MURDOC* @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 10:04)

Simple answers are for simpletons. If you want your opinion to be heard and want to be taken seriously, I'd suggest putting a bit more effort into your reply to avoid looking like a loose wingnut.

besides....

we all know the simple answer is YES

[Leftcoast]

QUOTE

Weed isn't generally a physiological addiction like heroin or alcohol. It is more psychological and more easy to cure. You only have to look at the negative affects of weed vs. alcohol to see which is the worse drug. Its no contest.

Well said, don't forget Bob Saget's camio in "Half Baked" regarding being addicted to weed.

I do agree that alcohol is much worse, however, right now in the USA I feel one of the best reasons to legalize would be to help alleviate the violence and other issues at the southern border. I know the border issues have been mentioned before, I feel they far out way the medicinal rational at this point in time.

[Eagles]

Yes, I think it should be legalized. Specially here in Brazil, where the drug traffic is elevated and a lot of money runs between dealer's hands inside and outside the favelas.
The legalization would spare some innocent lives and would make our cities cleaner and less violent.

In the other hand, I try to keep myself far away from these things. In my opinion, people are starting to smoke weed more often just because they are feeling that this world doesn't fit their ideal standards.
They see a lot of corruption, violence and all these actually common things and they feel like they don't want to do anything to make it better, so they just get high and forget about how bad the world is.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Eagles @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 18:49)

Yes, I think it should be legalized. Specially here in Brazil, where the drug traffic is elevated and a lot of money runs between dealer's hands inside and outside the favelas. The legalization would spare some innocent lives and would make our cities cleaner and less violent.

The Sun, for some reason, did a piece today on why drugs should be legalised throughout the world, and the points that were put across all made sense, and your point about the violence that the drug business brings about was one of the main issues. It would totally eradicate the whole criminal aspect to drugs, therefore erasing all the criminal behavoir that goes on in in the drug business.

The main point they put across was that the war on drugs is failing, and they should instead be concentrating on making them legal and controlling it all.

[Ryda King]

All the stoners and weed smokers I've ever known were chill as hell people. Easy to get along with, and good guys. It not being legalized in 2012 when it's no more dangerous (if not LESS dangerous) than beer is ridiculous. As far as it being addictive, that's the users problem. Beer is worse in the addiction department and can cause far more damage than weed.

I think ALL drugs should be legalized. I believe you should be able to put whatever you want in your own body, dangerous or not. If you're dumb enough to shoot up heroin, go for it. Drug wars and crime rates would go down to nearly nothing. But it's never going to happen. Oinkers can't very well get in the papers or get $$$ for arrests if you have no one to bust drugs for.

[Butters 2011]

QUOTE (Ryda King @ Friday, Apr 20 2012, 16:14)

All the stoners and weed smokers I've ever known were chill as hell people. Easy to get along with, and good guys. It not being legalized in 2012 when it's no more dangerous (if not LESS dangerous) than beer is ridiculous. As far as it being addictive, that's the users problem. Beer is worse in the addiction department and can cause far more damage than weed. I think ALL drugs should be legalized. I believe you should be able to put whatever you want in your own body, dangerous or not. If you're dumb enough to shoot up heroin, go for it. Drug wars and crime rates would go down to nearly nothing. But it's never going to happen. Oinkers can't very well get in the papers or get $$$ for arrests if you have no one to bust drugs for.

This is the current debate that seems to be going on within the UK politics, with, of all people, Russell Brand stepping in to voice his own opinions on the subject. He put one major point forward, and it's something that should be listened to acted upon in my opinion; Stop concentrating all the efforts on trying to fight the war against drugs, but instead, help those people who want/need the help to get off of their addiction. At the end of the day, millions of pounds are been spent on trying to fight this war on drugs, trying to take the drugs off of the streets, but the thing is, it's never-ending war in which the criminals are always the winners. I think the Government needs to take a look at reality, and see the fact that no matter what 'class' the drugs are, and how illegal are, the user will still do everything in their power to get the drugs they need. Just because heroin is class A, doesn't stop someone from using this drug, and it's the same with all drugs out there.

It's a waste of money. God knows how many drug users I know that have been arrested, locked up for a few days, then let back out, only for them to return back to the drugs they were on. It's a pointless waste of money, and could be spent in a much better way.

No law will ever stop someone from doing something that they wish to do, especally when it comes down to an addiction. Instead of trying to punish the users all the time for their addiction, why not work on helping these people get off of the drugs, and try and give them as much help as possible?

As I said earlier, make drugs legal, and you stop all that 'criminal' aspect to it all. Of all the drugs that are illegal, making weed class B was one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen them make, especially in a country where they pushed for 24 hour drinking and then complain about how much it costs the NHS to combat all the after-effects. Alcohol is more addictive then weed, yet that's still legal, and one of the biggest income on money for the Government.

How many people do you know that have smoked some weed on it's own, then gone out and started trouble? As the quote states, most people who smoke weed are just laid-back and chilled out. Yeah, there's all the stories of all the personal side-effects to smoking cannabis, such as paranoia and whatnot, but can any test really put all this down just to smoking cannabis, and not the lifestyle of the user? I know plenty of people who smoke weed, yet still have a good job, a nice house, a family etc etc.

Drugs should be made legal, and we should be spending the resources on helping those who want help, and giving people their own option, yet let them know about the consequences.

[Vincenzo Rosoto]

Why don't we just Decriminalize Marijuana instead?