[HolyGrenadeFrenzy]

I on the other hand find this more fitting a song for this topic.



Peer pressure is nothing compared to the many other pressures of the world and in fact it can often be proffered to avoid such other issues.

btw, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs either.

Yet....when I was a young man, I was familiar with each and have no desire nor any inclination to ever go there again, even when in the midst and surrounded by those that are.

It has built me a very respected reputation among both sides of the law.

Although, sometimes I still wonder about others on both sides of the law.

[finn4life]

QUOTE (Melchior @ May 29 2011, 15:38)

Studying doesn't help you with anything and is a load of bollocks, like formal education in general. If you don't want to drink or do drugs that's fine, but don't pretend that you're better than people who do. I'm sick of the stigma surrounding people who slack off in school - like how much you comply to the education system's arbitrary bullsh*t correlates with how intelligent you are. Also, money is meaningless and won't bring you happiness.

Studying does improve your learning, for most people so don't say its bollocks.

I do agree that how hard you work at school does not determine your intelligence, it just means that you are not interested in school as much as some.
Whilst money doesn't give you happiness, is does help.

[makeshyft]

QUOTE (Melchior @ May 29 2011, 14:38)

Studying doesn't help you with anything and is a load of bollocks, like formal education in general.

Yeah, because I sure hope any doctor that ever treats me didn't study or acquire a formal education.

What a ridiculous comment.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (finn4life @ Jun 1 2011, 08:37)

QUOTE (Melchior @ May 29 2011, 15:38) Studying doesn't help you with anything and is a load of bollocks, like formal education in general. If you don't want to drink or do drugs that's fine, but don't pretend that you're better than people who do. I'm sick of the stigma surrounding people who slack off in school - like how much you comply to the education system's arbitrary bullsh*t correlates with how intelligent you are. Also, money is meaningless and won't bring you happiness. Studying does improve your learning, for most people so don't say its bollocks.

Indeed. I can think of many vocations where you need to have extensively studied and analysed technical or historical information, or developed techniques that could only be learned through study. Mine for example. Or architecture. There's a big debate on the value of training versus education, now whilst I do side with the "train more, educate less" side of things, that's only because every institution conducts its business in a slightly different way, expects its analysts or staff to follow a certain procedure, and it's very easy to become indoctrinated into that. Sure, you could be an intelligence analyst or security analyst with training and no education or studying, but you wouldn't be a very good one.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (makeshyft @ Jun 1 2011, 17:57)

QUOTE (Melchior @ May 29 2011, 14:38) Studying doesn't help you with anything and is a load of bollocks, like formal education in general. Yeah, because I sure hope any doctor that ever treats me didn't study or acquire a formal education. What a ridiculous comment.

Well, based on the one sentence you responded with, I'm guessing you haven't exactly spent nights alone pondering this. Have you ever actually evaluated the education system and thought about alternatives? No? Then why start an argument with someone who has?

Why should people need to attend a school run by the state, with loads of the state's arbitrary standards forced upon them? Why is this the only option to become a competent doctor? Aren't there any alternatives to a massive, souless beurocracy that many of the most intelligent kids simply give up on? You may not believe this, but most people who drop out around year 10 are just as intelligent, if not, more so, than people who go to uni - and those kids will never get to become doctors simply because they're frustrated with the all the red tape and arbitrary nonsense they're forced to learn.

Education is important guys, no sh*t. But why does it have to be institutionalised?

[Adler]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Jun 1 2011, 16:36)

Education is important guys, no sh*t. But why does it have to be institutionalised?

Some people just don't want to learn. It's those that are straggling at the back that drag the ones ahead back to their level. At least, that's what I can see from the current system of American education.

It's alarming that degrees now lack the value that it used to. No one wants to hire someone with a mere high school diploma for highly technical jobs. They need at least a degree to give an estimate of how useful a person may be in their company. It's simple to toss kids through rigorous education and see what comes out the other side while it's inefficient to hand-pick those that are qualified for jobs.

If someone wants security then they can follow the herd through the system but if they want to take risks then they're welcome to leave at any time. There's been more and more people working for security in their lives more than anything which is why expectations have been raised so that companies only hire the cream of the crop. We need more people to take risks is what I believe. Otherwise, it's a slippery slope that will only lead to expectations getting raised higher and higher.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Adler @ Jun 2 2011, 11:04)

QUOTE (Melchior @ Jun 1 2011, 16:36) Education is important guys, no sh*t. But why does it have to be institutionalised? Some people just don't want to learn. It's those that are straggling at the back that drag the ones ahead back to their level. At least, that's what I can see from the current system of American education.

I disagree. I think the kids at the back--having been one for my entire academic career--want to learn as much as anyone else, but find it difficult to care about all the useless bullsh*t they pump into you. It's all well and good to say "kids have to learn maths until they're 17" but if you're 14-15 and don't want to learn maths, you just won't, you'll sit at the back making jokes with your friends and eventually be labelled part of the troublesome element that teachers have no intention of helping, hence you'll be delegated a dreary working class vocation, while the mindless dorks who couldn't formulate an independent thought to save their lives will finish high school, go to uni and get a fairly well paid job.

QUOTE

If someone wants security then they can follow the herd through the system but if they want to take risks then they're welcome to leave at any time.

One thing I've noticed with the education system is that they spend the entire final two years preparing you for the HSC (Australian equivalent of the SAT or the O Levels), by basically telling you only what you need to know to pass the exams, and teaching you how to stop the people who mark the tests from getting bored, and how to fit your answer around their preconceived interpretations so that the markers don't have to use their brains at all (makes you wonder what they went to school for, eh?). This is because the majority of kids in the final two years are interested first and foremost in"security" as you put it, and don't actually care about what their learning, or more likely, the system doesn't afford them the luxury of caring. As such, I have no wider understanding of Arthur Miller's The Crucible, or the Russian Revolution, because they only taught us what they knew would be on the exam.

Going to school for most people is the existential equivalent of false economy - society puts value on (perceived) academic success and money, when really neither will bring you any form of happiness (and no finn4life, money doesn't "help" in that regard, especially if you waste your life pursuing it). All very superfical, and what's worse, is people like you walk away with the understanding that it's you who is academically inclined because you listen to all the nonsense, not any of the thousands of perfectly intelligent kids who just can't be arsed with all the bullsh*t.

[Adler]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Jun 1 2011, 18:55)

QUOTE Some people just don't want to learn. It's those that are straggling at the back that drag the ones ahead back to their level. At least, that's what I can see from the current system of American education. I disagree. I think the kids at the back--having been one for my entire academic career--want to learn as much as anyone else, but find it difficult to care about all the useless bullsh*t they pump into you. It's all well and good to say "kids have to learn maths until they're 17" but if you're 14-15 and don't want to learn maths, you just won't, you'll sit at the back making jokes with your friends and eventually be labelled part of the troublesome element that teachers have no intention of helping, hence you'll be delegated a dreary working class vocation, while the mindless dorks who couldn't formulate an independent thought to save their lives will finish high school, go to uni and get a fairly well paid job.

Guess it helps to see things from another point of view. I don't really learn things I don't want to either. It goes in my head for test time then I throw it out so I can cram knowledge for another test. Teachers say that tests are designed to see if you learned anything but then it sounds like we're being forced to learn. There's really no way to teach everybody the way they need though so the educational system simply teaches general information to the general population. It's not that great a system but I don't see another way that would be more effective.

QUOTE (Melchior @ Jun 1 2011, 18:55)

One thing I've noticed with the education system is that they spend the entire final two years preparing you for the HSC (Australian equivalent of the SAT or the O Levels), by basically telling you only what you need to know to pass the exams, and teaching you how to stop the people who mark the tests from getting bored, and how to fit your answer around their preconceived interpretations so that the markers don't have to use their brains at all (makes you wonder what they went to school for, eh?). This is because the majority of kids in the final two years are interested first and foremost in"security" as you put it, and don't actually care about what their learning, or more likely, the system doesn't afford them the luxury of caring. As such, I have no wider understanding of Arthur Miller's The Crucible, or the Russian Revolution, because they only taught us what they knew would be on the exam.

I feel the same way about current events and believe that I am very uninformed of history in the last 50-60 years so I learn it as I go. Since we learn history in chronological order we arrive at that era around the time we're supposed to take the AP exams so we don't usually get all the facts. The AP exams usually test on history further in the past anyways.

QUOTE (Melchior @ Jun 1 2011, 18:55)

Going to school for most people is the existential equivalent of false economy - society puts value on (perceived) academic success and money, when really neither will bring you any form of happiness (and no finn4life, money doesn't "help" in that regard, especially if you waste your life pursuing it). All very superfical, and what's worse, is people like you walk away with the understanding that it's you who is academically inclined because you listen to all the nonsense, not any of the thousands of perfectly intelligent kids who just can't be arsed with all the bullsh*t.

Yeah I suppose I am pretty ignorant sometimes. Can't be helped though. Every day that passes adds reinforcement to my pre-existing point of view until it is challenged. Good thing this was brought up now.

EDIT

Errmm how come the quote tags aren't working? Whoops never mind...

This post has been edited by Adler on Thursday, Jun 2 2011, 04:18

[Aussiebushmatt]

I drink when I'm with friends/social groups not because I get pressured to do it but simply because it makes it so much easier to actually socialise with girls I don't know. After a few drinks, I'm practically swimming in poontang! In all seriousness, I've never drunk alcohol because I've been forced to; it's always been my choice. My imagination leads me to doing stuff like drinking until I'm over the 'tipsy' line and then getting drunk on GTA IV with Packie and then attempting to drive in-game. It's probably been done before but I'll never forget that night XD

I've also never attempted smoking or drugs, although I am in support of 'legalisation' simply because of the stats relating to deaths etc.

[mrpain]

Peer pressure? Well my peers are really bad peers but nope, they haven't influenced me one bit.

I was a pretty f*cked up guy when I was 14 who would go smoking and shoplifting. Although I was mostly doing it with my peers, I always felt that I'm the bad influence instead of them. My first cigarrete was offered by my friend and I was like "f*ck YEAH!"

And duh, I'm a good boy now after being caught doing all those crazy sh*ts. The school forced me to see a psychiartrist after my last shoplifting incident and TADA, I'm an angel now who still flunked in his studies.

[Melchior]

QUOTE (Adler @ Jun 2 2011, 14:05)

There's really no way to teach everybody the way they need though so the educational system simply teaches general information to the general population. It's not that great a system but I don't see another way that would be more effective.

Well, get rid of the Department of Education and let the teachers run their own schools, for one. It's simply a matter of taking the effort we put into preparing kids for tests and meeting the government's requirements, and traversing the red tape that's associated with them, and putting it towards understanding and teaching kids as individuals. I don't have all the answers, but anyone who takes a look at our current education and socioeconomic caste systems should be able to see right away that there's something wrong.

[terrib1995]

QUOTE (ZDANZ96 @ Sunday, May 8 2011, 17:09)

Gundog:stop being and arse and trolling others just because you "love" weed.... its your vicious and we dont have nothing with it. When someone "fall in love" with something its very hard to put him out of it. Is people so different where you all live? i dont usually find " wannaberappers" here nor "emos" ,but theres the "coloridos" (that is a new more "gay" emo) like these.... These are annoying faggots that put peer pressure in their close friends to be how they are (gay)... leaving them if they dont do it . This is wrong and you need be far from these people (not the alcohol,or the drugs only), everybody who put pressure on you isnt your friend.... They are your worst enemies that you can find in your long life...

And they are who exactly????

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (Melchior @ Saturday, Jun 4 2011, 21:50)

get rid of the Department of Education and let the teachers run their own schools, for one.

seriously??

that's a horrible idea.

[EscoLehGo]

I resent the notion in this thread that smoking, doing drugs or drinking are activities someone who has succumbed to peer pressure partakes in. I started doing those things because sobriety for me was very boring and aggravating at times, I started moderating these things to be socially acceptable. (There's an age between 18-25 where getting drunk/high/slammed on a regular basis is not seen as taboo in the US but rather some sort of right of passage for the youth)

[BRITLAND]

i made a commitment to my self that i will never smoke, do drugs or drink an ytype of alcohol under any conditions

[fgcarva1]

QUOTE (BRITLAND @ Thursday, Jul 5 2012, 20:39)

i made a commitment to my self that i will never smoke, do drugs or drink an ytype of alcohol under any conditions

The first two are good, but I'm sure you'll drink sometime in your life.

I've fallen into peer pressure a few times. A few of my friends were (and still are) chain smokers so when I was around fifteen I smoked a few cigarettes, but stopped right after. It was a "few nights" thing. I used not to drink at all until I decided to start drinking at social gatherings this year. It was my Senior year of High School so I realized I had to do it because I would soon go to college and I would like to start drinking before I turned 18 to not go to college and go crazy. I'm pretty controlled though, I only drink a few glasses of Scotch and hate beer or any cheap alcohol. I guess drinking to the point you still have control of yourself is a good way to ease peer pressure because you have a good drink and people won't be like "dude, drink with me" although none of the people I hang with are too pushy with peer pressure.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (fgcarva1 @ Thursday, Jul 5 2012, 18:50)

The first two are good, but I'm sure you'll drink sometime in your life.

the first 2 are good but drinking is ok?

drinking isn't smoking.
but drinking is doing drugs.

alcohol is a drug.
it f*cks you up like a drug. just because it's legal doesn't make it not a dangerous drug

[Varrio]

I'll admit I'm easily persuaded into doing things that I know I should not (like drinking excessively or vandalism in my younger years), yeah unless of course I know the said issue/situation is completely morally wrong.

[zoo3891]

Good thing I don't have friends to pressure me!

Back when I hung out with a girl who smoked her mother's cigarettes she never tried to pressure anyone else into doing it, and even told us to stay away from her while she smoked. I always had been easily pressured into verbally abusing people just to fit in, and when I thought about it after doing it I felt horrible, as time went on I grew out of that as well.

My current peers sound like real assholes. The small group of kids that I do hang out with often bully each other, and two of them dropped out of high school less than half way in. Yesterday I was stuck in traffic and a girl I knew stole a basketball from some homeless people and was tossing it at cars in traffic.

Hidden for off-topic story about the homeless which belongs in the rant topic, probablyI mentioned this in another post, but someone fenced off an alleyway of an abandoned metal salvage that the homeless like to gather at in a group, a free territory (kind of). A few days ago they set up chairs right in front of the fence and just sat down as usual (with a bit less freiraum). One lady had a basketball I guess, and this girl from my Psychology class last year got out of her car in a traffic jam, stole the ball, and when she was done being a c*nt threw it right at one of them as if to hit her.

QUOTE

The first two are good, but I'm sure you'll drink sometime in your life.

And who makes you the judge of that‽ He has a great goal that would completely benefit him, and you just shoot it down like that! "Oh yeah, not killing people is great, but it happens all the time so go ahead and do it."

This post has been edited by zoo3891 on Friday, Jul 6 2012, 03:09

[EscoLehGo]

QUOTE (zoo3891 @ Friday, Jul 6 2012, 03:04)

Yesterday I was stuck in traffic and a girl I knew stole a basketball from some homeless people and was tossing it at cars in traffic.

I'm sorry but that sounds really hilarious