[cidamelo]

Angel Avenue you don't know how much I'm happy to know that there're people who like to discuss GTA!!

[Dex507]

Cidamelo, you seem to forget a certain moment in the game, when you leave the museum and you have to fight Ray's goons outside and Johnny says "Ray told you to rip me off, did he?"
That means Ray never intended to give The Lost half of the money!
(Sorry if someone already posted this, I'm too lazy to go through all the topic)

[cidamelo]

Dex507 I don't think Ray wanted to rip off Johnny, I think those goons were there because Ray was already untrusting Johnny (like he said "Johnny, don't get too clever"), and his business associates betrayed him. Ray was going to pay him, he said to Niko to give Johnny half of the money. Ray was very honest with his business associates through the whole game, but his business associates weren't honest with him.

[Dex507]

I'm pretty sure goons starting to shoot first, that makes them the traitors...

[AlexGTAGamer]

QUOTE (Dex507 @ May 29 2011, 20:49)

I'm pretty sure goons starting to shoot first, that makes them the traitors...

As soon as Mori and the two other guards were shot (by we all know who) every other guard in the museum just went crazy and began to shoot at Niko and Johnny, they were probably convinced that one of them shot the diamond dealers (including Issac) to make away with the diamonds and the money leaving them (the guards) out of pocket as they were there to insure that Niko gets half the money and Johnny the other half in exchange for giving Issac the diamonds.

[cidamelo]

AlexGTAGamer yes, they got too confused!

[killer24]

I think I'll agree with cidamelo and AlexGTAGamer, it would make sense because Luis ambushed the deal, when the goons heard the gunshot, they mistaken Johnny and Niko for firing a gun, which in reality is really Luis.

[cidamelo]

killer24 I LOVED YOUR AVATAR!!

[junkpile]

Btw Cidamelo: I was curious, if "Pest Control" had the option to either kill Ray Boccino or Phil Bell, what would you do?

[MegaCam]

QUOTE (buzbegone @ Wednesday, Jan 26 2011, 14:20)

QUOTE (Chimpso @ Jan 26 2011, 19:41) Good to know you love a murdering, sadistic, greedy Italian mobster who kills people by dumping them in car compactors and listening to their skulls pop. Don't cheat on him, or you'll get it cid. QUOTE Hi friends We're not your friends. LOL at everything here. QUOTE (cidamelo @ Jan 26 2011, 21:42) buzbegone you don't like me too much, do ya ? (Ray said it to Johnny   ) No... not when you spam the forums with useless I <3 Ray/Claude topics Case in point: This topic.

im sure it means so much to you.

[cidamelo]

junkpile are you crazy?! Phil Bell, NO DOUBT!!

[scedion]

I hate Ray, Johnny and The rest of the Lost excluding the damned traitors were awesome and it was the Lost doing all the hard work they lost many members trying to get the diamonds and they deserved the money they lost blood trying to get it in the first place so why should Johnny give the money to Ray when it was Johnny and his Gang doing all the work, if it wasn't for Billy and Brian then the Lost can probably take on Ray and his crappy gang.

[PhantomRoxas101]

To me it's like this, I don't really like Ray Boccino BUT I respect him as a person. Him and Johnny could've been alright and wouldn't of had any problems if Billy didn't tell Ray all those lies. Ray Boccino was WRONG for trying to put a hit on Phil, and so it proves he's not a good guy. He's two faced, and deserved dying by the hands of Niko. Ray was cool, but he wasn't a very loveable character. I preferred Phil anyhow, and would've killed Ray if given the choice.

[thegtaman531]

QUOTE (PhantomRoxas101 @ Tuesday, Oct 9 2012, 21:40)

To me it's like this, I don't really like Ray Boccino BUT I respect him as a person. Him and Johnny could've been alright and wouldn't of had any problems if Billy didn't tell Ray all those lies. Ray Boccino was WRONG for trying to put a hit on Phil, and so it proves he's not a good guy. He's two faced, and deserved dying by the hands of Niko. Ray was cool, but he wasn't a very loveable character. I preferred Phil anyhow, and would've killed Ray if given the choice.

I don't know why rockstar made it so you had to kill ray. It would be intresting if you had to choose between Ray or Phil. Two Mob guys, and you had to choose who was the rat, and kill them. Even so, I'd still kill Ray. It seemed that Phil and Niko had a better bond than Ray and Niko, and Phil was a much more intresting and likeable character IMO.

[cidamelo]

Phil is the TRUE TRAITOR!!

[ThePinkFloydSound]

Best topic title in a long time. I'd love to see it printed on a t-shirt.

[Johnny-K]

First of all, its clear who is my favourite gta character but I like to consider myself as a person who tries to mantain his objectivity no matter the situation. Also I want to mention that i actually read the whole tread.

I get it you like Ray maybe even more than I like Johnny, but I've been waiting to play as a biker since Vice City doing missions for Mitch Baker, also my name translated to English is Johnny.

All facts point him up beeing a douchebag, sneaky, a suck-up to Pegorino and cruel. An example of that is when he killed the guy screwing him over by throwing him in the crusher. Sure I get that in mafia world you dont walk away easy, but he could have chosen a more humain way to dispose of him, a bullet between the eyes is less terrifying. We all see what he is made of but you always try to spinn it in a good direction. Another thing, atm I am replaying gta iv and in museum piece cutscene before you go meet Johnny, Nico had to threaten him not to go before giving his word on finding florian. Further proof that he is the kind of guy who is using people, like using Ashley because I couldt find anything clear that he has some genuine afection for her, besides, the irish mobsters know that for a fact. What happend in the museum we can never be sure, he could have gotten him jumped or a big confusion. Throughout the hole game you can tell that he is the type of guy who wants to get to the top no matter the costs, and steps on everyone who gets in his way. Try to compare him to Phil Bell, wich one seems more trustworthy?
The only reason you couldn't choose wich one to kill is obvious: you can't make a clear ending in tlad based on the choise nico would make.

Sure, Johnny isn't a saint either, he did steal Ray because he saw what kind of person he really is and I'm guessing hate rather than greed made him wanna steal him. He never thought about himself, he put the brotherhood first and that is what counts. Sure he made a bad decision that time, I didn't like it either, especialy because the club house gets burnt and Jim killed, and after you finish the story there isnt much to do.

cidamelo, I accept the error made by Johnny, but Ray has many flaws, you need to accept that, not saying he was a rat though.

[cidamelo]

ThePinkFloydSound I would wear it!
Johnny-K I agree with some points: Ray Boccino is kind suck-up for Pegorino, but I guess it's the only way for him to get ahead in the corporation! Because no one in the game truly likes him! He seems to not have friends or family!! Well, about the crusher... Ray Boccino was always betrayed, and obviously it's a bad thing to do, but everyone in GTA is bad!!! Niko may try to have a 'moral', but he still is as bad and criminal as more 'psychopath' characters like Ray or Claude.... And Ray isn't that bad! He seems to truly care about Ashley (if you see Taking In The Trash, he was very caring of her), and in Was It Worth It, he was sad when his henchman was killed!. Yes Niko always seemed to hate Ray, from the moment he met him! But Ray always tried to be nice with Niko, you can see it in "A Long Way To Fall", and Ray always called Niko "Nicky", in a friendly way, and he helped NIKO a lot, finding Florian and giving him a safehouse!! Obviously, as Niko always treats Ray badly, he starts to get suspicious about Niko.... And Niko KNOWS he mistreats Ray, because when he kills him, he calls Roman and feels guilty! Ray Boccino LOOKS more like a rat than Phil, he seems more arrogant because his appearance - he is tall and handsome while Phil seems that fatty friend everyone has! Ray never made something that would made us think he was a rat! Maybe he didn't tell everything to Jimmy about the diamonds, but he was very honest with all of his henchman, Niko and Johnny included! Phil was a lover of THE BOSS WIFE, and he fooled Jimmy soooo much that he thought they weren't having an affair!! And why was Phil soooooooo worried about FBI? AND HE SUSPICIOUSLY MOVED TO A SMALL TOWN!!!! (Witness Protection Program anyone??) Phil was so smart NO ONE distrusted him!!
Johnny-K no problem, it's good to hear other opinions too! I love to talk about GTA anyway

[Fisciletti]

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Sunday, Oct 28 2012, 12:31)

and Ray always called Niko "Nicky", in a friendly way,

I don't think so, many people call each other like that even not being friends.

[cidamelo]

Fisciletti it might be said in an ironic way (like when Ray called Johnny "Jon-Jon", but I think he was friendly towards Niko in the beginning!!