[leik oh em jeez!]

Let's look at all of the moronic points you've tried to make, and failed.

QUOTE

It's still pointless to have the driver there if it's not needed. The method I stated removes the driver completely. Thus the driver itself will not in fact remain as it is permanently removed.

Your method did NOT remove the driver completely. It doesn't remove it at all, it just tells device manager to forget that the hardware was in the system. It un-assigns the driver from that hardware, unloads it. Same as closing a program. The driver itself is still there and can be loaded next time an nvidia card is inserted into the system.

QUOTE

Big whoop, the only way that the thousands of generic drivers are "installed" is the fact that they reside on the hard disk.

No, a .rar file sitting in your downloads folder would be "just sitting on the hard drive." A driver ready for use, while it may be just sitting there, is indeed ready for use just like and installed application.

QUOTE

They're not actually installed. That's like saying I "installed" a photo on my computer so I could look at it.

I wouldn't use the term "install" for a photo, and I fail to see how you think comparing a driver to a photo is more accurate than comparing a driver to a program.

QUOTE

It's installing drivers that are already "installed." Try again.

Great point there. But we can move those quotes and it makes an equally valid point for me.
It's "installing" drivers that are already installed. Try again.

QUOTE

What you just described is the act of INSTALLING. Wow, just wow.

So then, assigning file type associations to an already installed copy of Paint.NET and then double clicking a photo to run Paint.NET, is by your definition, "the act of installing."

QUOTE

The drivers aren't already "installed" on the system. They're just sitting there on the hard disk.

Just like Paint.NET is doing right now. And it's installed.

QUOTE

They are no more installed than the drivers you download from the Internet are before you install them.

So here you are literally saying that a driver that is already in the correct place and format needed to be run, or ready for use if you will (definition of installed there, since you still seem to ignore that) is no more installed that a driver that is sitting in a .rar archive that Windows has no idea contains a driver, and even if ther .rar was placed in the correct place Windows still wouldn't detect?
Let's simplify that just a little further. According to YOU, a driver that perfectly fits the definition of 'installed' is no more installed than a driver that has none of the characteristics of something that is installed, according to the word's own definition.
Way
to
go

QUOTE

Same thing would occur if one were to uninstall Nvidia drivers without deleting them.

You mean unload? because if I uninstall a program, it's gone. it's deleted. Not to mention this DIRECTLY conflicts with the first point of yours that I quoted.

QUOTE

THEY'RE UNINSTALLED AKA NOT INSTALLED, however if you were to reconnect an Nvidia card to the machine it would AUTOMATICALLY INSTALL the card with the driver already there rather than asking you for one. It's not rocket science.

So let's look at an equivalent example. You uninstall Paint.NET, then try to open an image file that was associated with Paint.NET, it's automatically downloaded from the internet and reinstalled to open your file.
No that does't seem right.
Let's swap out 'install' for 'load' or 'run' and see if it makes sense.
You close Paint.NET, then try to open an image file that was associated with Paint.NET, it's still on your system, and automatically run to open your file.
Woah, that makes so much more sense now, doesn't it?
See how your wording applied to a different situation doesn't make a damn bit of sense, but mine makes perfect sense? Odd, huh?

QUOTE

The drivers sit there never used until you install (or plug in) whatever device that it has to install the proper drivers for.

Kind of like how Paint.NET sits on my system never to be used unless I open an image with it? Yeah, that makes more sense.

QUOTE

They are not sitting in Device Manager ready for use. If it's not in Device Manager, then NO it is NOT installed.

LOL, Device manager lists DEVICES or HARDWARE. Drivers are software. Paint.NET isn't in Device manager either, I suppose according to you that means it's not installed?

QUOTE

Uhh no. That's why you can uninstall/update DRIVERS through device manager.

So according to you, Device manager does NOT list hardware.

QUOTE

That doesn't automatically uninstall the hardware from the machine. So please, try again.

No, it preps the software for removal of the hardware by unloading the driver, killing the association between the two.


And the rest is all on the last page already, so I feel no need to repeat myself.

How is countering all of your points with evidence and logic "running out of arguments?"
Please do explain.

[SyphonPayne]

Wow what a douche.

You're a goddamn idiot for real. Selecting "Uninstall" from device manager, then selecting "delete software" DOES IN FACT delete the drivers.

AS I SAID 100,000 TIMES, when those drivers are in the directory, they are just READY TO BE INSTALLED, NOT READY FOR USE. Only difference is that they AUTOMATICALLY INSTALL.

File type associations has NOTHING TO DO with this.

PAINT.NET has nothing to do with this.

You can't use the drivers until you INSTALL THEM. DRIVERS are needed for HARDWARE to run. Try again.

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE

File type associations has NOTHING TO DO with this. PAINT.NET has nothing to do with this.

It was a comparison. A much more accurate comparison than the idiotic "installing a photo" one that you tried to use.

QUOTE

You can't use the drivers until you INSTALL THEM. DRIVERS are needed for HARDWARE to run.

Did I EVER say anything contrary to to this? If so, please refresh my memory.

Drivers do need to be installed to run hardware. Thankfully Windows already has many drivers preinstalled and ready to run, though for some hardware you need do download and install them yourself, as windows can't load the drivers if they're not there or installed.

Gosh, you should know this.

[SyphonPayne]

f*cking forget about photos and paint.net, yes both are bullsh*t comparisons.

You never said anything contrary to that, but you keep saying that they are "installed" just because they're already in the directory that Windows searches. That is wrong. They are not installed until Windows... INSTALLS THEM.

"Preloaded" makes more sense than "preinstalled."

EDIT: It's just a bunch of f*cking arguing over semantics. Have the last word, I'm done.

This post has been edited by SyphonPayne on Thursday, May 24 2012, 23:41

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE (SyphonPayne @ Thursday, May 24 2012, 18:35)

f*cking forget about photos and paint.net, yes both are bullsh*t comparisons. You never said anything contrary to that, but you keep saying that they are "installed" just because they're already in the directory that Windows searches. That is wrong. They are not installed until Windows... INSTALLS THEM. "Preloaded" makes more sense than "preinstalled."

If I never said anything contrary, then how on earth could you use that as a counterpoint? No, never mind, that doesn't even matter. No reason to get off topic of our semi off top debate. That would really be crossing the line.

Neither comparison is perfect, but a comparing a photo to a driver is about equivalent to comparing a trash can and a donkey. At least I'm more comparing a trash can and document shredder.

"Preloaded" would tend to point to something that is loaded already, but as both of us agree, the drivers in question are not loaded or in use.

While preinstalled may not be a perfect term, it's at least a 95% match.

[Slamman]

An installer typically assigns components in the registry, the other method is cutting and pasting folders where you want them, you can just find the main EXE file from an assortment of files for a Program, run it that way, but the more complex methods make sure a program runs the way the distributor or company wants, regulating it's use on the user's end, like trials that take features off a product in some examples like MS Office as we've said before

Device Manager is just one way to remove drivers or reinstall them, or update them, this is not the only means, the more complex drivers run from an installer package because they're like any program offering complex GUI and various levels, other drivers are VERY simple software instruction sets, just enough to relate to the OS what the hardware is and how to set for it, a video driver or audio driver is the perfect examples here

This post has been edited by Slamman on Friday, May 25 2012, 04:53

[SyphonPayne]

QUOTE (Slamman @ Thursday, May 24 2012, 23:45)

Device Manager is just one way to remove drivers or reinstall them, or update them, this is not the only means, the more complex drivers run from an installer package because they're like any program offering complex GUI and various levels, other drivers are VERY simple software instruction sets, just enough to relate to the OS what the hardware is and how to set for it, a video driver or audio driver is the perfect examples here

That's what I was saying all along. Device Manager doesn't install/uninstall HARDWARE at all. All it does is install/uninstall DRIVERS for the hardware. The other way is installing the driver via whatever installer is bundled with the driver. Just because a driver is located in the folder that Windows uses to search for drivers (and even automatically install when the appropriate hardware is connected) by default, doesn't automatically mean that it's installed. I can't believe it's such a hard concept for some people to grasp.

Also, before the argument, I responded to your post (and a couple of others):

QUOTE (Slamman @ Thursday, May 24 2012, 13:16)

I lack a USB mouse or keyboard at the moment, in transit. However, I have a Bluetooth Dell keyboard and would love a BT mouse, I'd prefer that to any USB or PS/2 one! For sure I got a serious question this time, On a Satellite dish, is it clouds or physical debris on the dish that disrupts the signal? We had and have still, some major rain event the past 12 hours, for long minutes at a time, the signal on the Sat receiver went out, and my brother thinks it's clouds causing that, not the rain hitting the dish. My idea would be to position protection from falling debris around the actual dish and it's receptors if that would help keep it's signal path clear. @Illegal, I have had the on screen pointer shoot up to the left or lower right corner on my Latitude Dells, they use a keyboard positioned pointer that just doesn't connect to the mobo all that well, if they fail in such a manner, I cut the ribbon cable that connects them. Using the palmrest touchpad instead, as I normally do, I am bummed that it can't serve as a backup though, if the touchpad fails. They connect at different Entry Points

It depends on what band this satellite dish is looking at. The Ku/Ka bands are the ones susceptible to "rain fade." C band is not. Dish Network uses Ku, DirecTV uses Ku + Ka for HD. Ka is even more susceptible to rain fade than Ku. It's actually clouds that create "rain fade." The tons of droplets in the clouds attenuate the signal, due to the wavelength of the band. Droplets that are ~1cm are the worst. That is why it can be pouring rain and you still have a signal, as if the rain (clouds) is directly above you, and say you are looking at 119W, well, you're looking southwest (at least from where I live) which is not covered in clouds. The main clouds that cause issues are the huge thunderheads. Regular rain clouds for the most part do not affect Ku enough to cause significant attenuation. For the most part, small debris shouldn't collect on the dish. The only time you really need to put a garbage bag or something over the dish is if you have problems with snow sticking to the dish.

The best way to try and avoid rain fade is to have the dish properly peaked on a clear day. The higher your signal on a good day, the more leeway you have for attenuation caused by the rain clouds.

QUOTE (illegal_luggage @ Thursday, May 24 2012, 10:23)

Have any of you had the problem of your mouse shooting to a corner of your screen randomly? It's very annoying while I'm playing a game because I'll be aiming at someone and then I'll just look up at the sky. It doesn't just happen in games by the way and this problem was on my old PC with the same Dell mouse. EDIT I don't have any other mice.

I had an old dell mouse that did that. Was definitely the mouse. You can get a new optical USB mouse for pretty cheap.

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Thursday, May 24 2012, 13:46)

Right, a question for other tech bods. My PSU (PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad) just exploded (!) in a cloud of black smoke somewhat akin to a small oil tanker fire. It's definitely the PSU gone pop, as it stinks of burnt metal and plastic. My question to you is quite simply- I've tried to boot again and there's definitely some kind of life in there, but I'm largely unsure of how much (motherboard lights are coming on, but it won't boot or post); statistically, what do you reckon the chances of this little calamity having fried my motherboard are? It's all under warranty still I think, but it's currently a dual-use work/recreation PC and I'd like to be able to take an educated guess at how long it will be till all is back up and running. Answers on a postcard, and no Slamman please- with all due respect (AKA none), these parts are far too new for you to know about.

I've had several PSUs blow up on machines that I've worked with. One blew up, it was so loud that my ear was mildly ringing. So far, not a single PSU (even the cheap ass ones) has fried a motherboard yet. One thing's for sure, I definitely wouldn't try to power it back on with the blown PSU. I'd unplug it ASAP.



In case it was lost in the previous posts...

[sivispacem]

Thanks for the feedback, all. PCPC have offered to replace, but it will be with an older model and I don't really think that's acceptable. Interestingly, the AX750 is exactly the same price (in fact slightly more expensive in some places) than the HX850- they do seem to be the two top-whack PSUs out there at the moment.

They've offered me the Silencer Mk2 as a replacement if I RMA the knackered one. So £40 for a £100 PSU? I'm still not convinced; I kinda fancy something modular because the inside of my case has always looked like it was being raped by a giant squid.

This post has been edited by sivispacem on Friday, May 25 2012, 14:47

[.Lycosa]

I have the TX750 Modular version. I got it very reduced (about £50 in a closing down sale iirc) which was good. It's not that quiet but Fractal uses sound dampening in their cases so it doesn't annoy me much.

I've had three PSU's sh*t out on me before and they didn't take any other components with them.

[sivispacem]

Just bought an AX750. Top end of the budget but I don't really need 925W maximum power and would really like a fully modular design as my system is really badly laid out in terms of cable management. Can't decide whether to drop my Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer back in and leave it, replace it with a CoolMaster Eisberg 120 when it's released, or get an H60 now. Was toying with a full water cooling build but I have neither the time nor can I risk any more failures of components.

[Wolf68k]

@Syphon and leik
ENOUGH!
Take that your pissing match to PM. I don't care who started. Both of you stop now!

[leik oh em jeez!]

QUOTE

@Syphon and leik ENOUGH! Take that your pissing match to PM. I don't care who started. Both of you stop now!

I know telling people what to do makes you feel important, but you're more than 24 hours late to the end of the debate. So what you're really doing now is just useless spam.

QUOTE

Can't decide whether to drop my Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer back in and leave it, replace it with a CoolMaster Eisberg 120 when it's released, or get an H60 now.

If you've already got the money, I'd say just go ahead and get the H60 now. They've both got the same radiator and probably the same flow, if not the same exact pump.
Or if you don't mind an Aluminum contact plate, get the H40 as it's a little cheaper.

QUOTE

Was toying with a full water cooling build but I have neither the time nor can I risk any more failures of components.

I wouldn't bother either. Compared to an all in one liquid cooling kit, it's just not worth the effort unless you're trying to get some mad OC out of your CPU and have been OCing long enough to know how to keep the CPU stable at such a speed regardless of the CPU temp. Which even then you'd be turning your PC into a space heater for a few extra frames a second which certainly is't going to make or break your gaming experience.

Or if that doesn't make sense, then:
Full water cooling is only worth it if it's winter and you think getting an awesome benchmark score will make your e-penis bigger.
Or if you're running a server that's under near full load 24/7.

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, May 26 2012, 06:31)

QUOTE Can't decide whether to drop my Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer back in and leave it, replace it with a CoolMaster Eisberg 120 when it's released, or get an H60 now. If you've already got the money, I'd say just go ahead and get the H60 now. They've both got the same radiator and probably the same flow, if not the same exact pump. Or if you don't mind an Aluminum contact plate, get the H40 as it's a little cheaper.

I can afford the H60, but the Eisbergs appear to have both a better rad (made Alphacool if Aria are to be believed, and 40% thicker than the H60 rad) and better pump (ceramic bearing Ehiem jobbie) plus they have an in-build reservoir and are modular so can be extended to GPUs et cetera.

This post has been edited by sivispacem on Saturday, May 26 2012, 07:58

[freak2121]

My GPU seems to be hitting 103C at times in Battlefield 3 and it's making me really worried. I'm broke right now and can't buy an aftermarket fan/heatsink for it (using stock). What are some inexpensive ways to bring my temps down?

[Wolf68k]

Start with cleaning out the card itself, might as well clean out the case while you're at it.
How many case fans do you have?

[freak2121]

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 21:27)

Start with cleaning out the card itself, might as well clean out the case while you're at it. How many case fans do you have?

Okay.
I have one 200mm in the front and a 120mm in the back. There's also my CPU's fan which is another 120mm.

[The Killa]

Right, I've been having problems again where my USB ports stop working at random moments (either it's only my mouse, only my keyboard, headphones.. or all of them at once). It's happened at least 5 times today, usually needs a reboot to fix the problem.

After a few reboots I decided to play TF2 to see if the problem would persist. About 3 minutes into playing I get hit with a BSOD with "QUOTA_UNDERFLOW" message in it. I've had those before, but they've only been happening the past week and are now becoming a more persistent problem.

I'm leaning towards a hardware failure but I'm not quite certain what exactly it is.

Not sure if this will help but here's the blue screen details:

BCCode: c5
BCP1: FFFFF8100345B6B0
BCP2: 000000000000002
BCP3: 000000000000000
bCP4: FFFFF80003400A4E
OS version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1

This post has been edited by The Killa on Monday, May 28 2012, 06:47

[SyphonPayne]

QUOTE (freak2121 @ Monday, May 28 2012, 00:32)

QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 21:27) Start with cleaning out the card itself, might as well clean out the case while you're at it. How many case fans do you have? Okay. I have one 200mm in the front and a 120mm in the back. There's also my CPU's fan which is another 120mm.

How much room does the card have in relation to other parts of the computer? Has it always ran hot or is this something that's occurring recently?

[freak2121]

QUOTE (SyphonPayne @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 23:10)

QUOTE (freak2121 @ Monday, May 28 2012, 00:32) QUOTE (Wolf68k @ Sunday, May 27 2012, 21:27) Start with cleaning out the card itself, might as well clean out the case while you're at it. How many case fans do you have? Okay. I have one 200mm in the front and a 120mm in the back. There's also my CPU's fan which is another 120mm. How much room does the card have in relation to other parts of the computer? Has it always ran hot or is this something that's occurring recently?

It's a bit to close to my CPU's heatsink (like half a centimeter in between the two but my CPU is usually 50-60c) and no, it usually maxed out at 84c.
Anyways, I took my GPU apart, cleaned it out with some alcohol, reapplied the thermal paste and played GTA IV for 30 minutes and ran a lap on Heaven, max temp it hit is 82c. Idle temp seems to have dropped by 10c too.
I don't have much time right now to play BF3 again to see if the temps shoot up again, I'll do that later today.

[Wolf68k]

I think taking it apart is a bit of an over kill. It might have been just blowing out the heatsink and fan that did it. But hey if it works then it works.

Half a centimeter between the GPU and the CPU's heatsink? Damn! If they were any closer they would be mating.
I've got like 2-4 inches between mine.