dunno if its already pointed out but if eugene reaper dies on 3 leaf clover, how is he alive in wrong is right?
The possibility of playing Wrong is Right after Three Leaf Clover would be a continuity issue within GTA IV regardless of the add-on episodes.
GTA Wiki and Wikipedia assert these are the same character. Grand Theft Wiki says it is not. Because there is acting in the Wrong is Right cutscene the actor should be credited separately if it's not the same character.
If it is the same character I'd have to update my mission tree to show Wrong is Right as a continuity prerequisite to Three Leaf Clover although it is not required to unlock the mission.
If it is the same character, his gun club speech to Luis could be interpreted as an attempt to protect his ULPC cover by misdirecting Luis about his motivations, anticipating publicity from the incident and trying to preempt speculation that someone trying to stop a robbery might be an undercover officer of some kind.
dunno if its already pointed out but if eugene reaper dies on 3 leaf clover, how is he alive in wrong is right?
The possibility of playing Wrong is Right after Three Leaf Clover would be a continuity issue within GTA IV regardless of the add-on episodes.
GTA Wiki and Wikipedia assert these are the same character. Grand Theft Wiki says it is not. Because there is acting in the Wrong is Right cutscene the actor should be credited separately if it's not the same character.
If it is the same character I'd have to update my mission tree to show Wrong is Right as a continuity prerequisite to Three Leaf Clover although it is not required to unlock the mission.
If it is the same character, his gun club speech to Luis could be interpreted as an attempt to protect his ULPC cover by misdirecting Luis about his motivations, anticipating publicity from the incident and trying to preempt speculation that someone trying to stop a robbery might be an undercover officer of some kind.
I initially thought the same until the Ballad of Gay Tony was released. The guy in the cutscene for Wrong is Right is just a random yuppy who shares the same character model as Eugene in Three Leaf Clover. A similar (if not the same) model is also used for Bryce Dawkins. I think one of the reasons they gave Eugene a whole new model in TBOGT was to draw a distinction between him and other random pedestrians on the street such as the guy in the aforementioned cutscene.
This post has been edited by Money Over Bullshit on Thursday, Jun 14 2012, 21:54
Ok apart from No 1 what other missions can you do after you finished the game
According to my mission tree all of these things can be delayed till after Story Complete
Random characters, dates with friends and girlfriends, and side missions (except taxi driver)
"Out of the Closet Part 2" (if you complete Part 1 but don't kill French Tom you can continue the story. "Out of the Closet Part 2" unlocks "No. 1".)
"No. 1" and races and car thefts unlocked by it
"Ruff Rider" through "The Holland Play". (You only need to do "Deconstruction for Beginners" and "Photo Shoot" to finish the main story but none of Dwayne's missions nor the "The Holland Play" are needed. That's the probably the biggest subplot that's surprisingly optional.)
Ok apart from No 1 what other missions can you do after you finished the game
According to my mission tree all of these things can be delayed till after Story Complete
Random characters, dates with friends and girlfriends, and side missions (except taxi driver)
"Out of the Closet Part 2" (if you complete Part 1 but don't kill French Tom you can continue the story. "Out of the Closet Part 2" unlocks "No. 1".)
"No. 1" and races and car thefts unlocked by it
"Ruff Rider" through "The Holland Play". (You only need to do "Deconstruction for Beginners" and "Photo Shoot" to finish the main story but none of Dwayne's missions nor the "The Holland Play" are needed. That's the probably the biggest subplot that's surprisingly optional.)
Although that may be the case it doesn't really make sense to leave those mission strands unfinished and its not like not doing them makes any major changes to the ending of the overall plot so why not do them? Unless you want to complete the game as quick as possible.
It would seem to be significant knowledge for anyone attempting a record speed run. The Story Club feature on Social Club apparently won't list a time faster than 09:00:00. It seems unlikely the shortest possible time is exactly 09:00:00.
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QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").
I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.
Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 07:31)
As far as I know, you can do Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play whenever you like - I believe they are completely inconsequential to the rest of the plot. As we all know, it's Photo Shoot that's the big pre-requisite.
I did notice an error in the game yesterday. If you're not worried about playing consistently, it is possible to start JP's missions before you have met the ULPC guy. However he still emails you to tell you "the people you are consorting with in Alderney are fools and not to be trusted". Niko still replys back "where is the person I am looking for". Of course, with MOB's list this isn't a problem, but R* clearly missed adding a pre-requisite to that email being sent.
Again, they're assuming you will have long completed ULP's missions, and again most likely subconsciously. In contrast, "Portrait of a Killer" (along with JP's "Payback") is needed to unlock Gravelli's mission strand, rather than the last ULP mission simply being the pre-requisite. Perhaps they couldn't see a problem with the last two ULP missions being completed after the start of Gravelli's missions. Personally I think they can be done after "Entourage" but before "Dining Out" since that is when Gravelli announces that Darko Brevic is being delivered as they speak, so doing any ULP missions after this point is ridiculous.
In short what I'm trying to say is that there are many certain missions that are possible to complete after other certain missions even though it doesn't make alot of sense.
This post has been edited by lilchris131 on Tuesday, Aug 14 2012, 17:33
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QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Saturday, Jan 21 2012, 05:55)
QUOTE (The_Anti-tragedy @ Friday, Jan 20 2012, 23:29)
Here's the order I'm talking about. Call and Collect Liberty City Choppers Harboring a Grudge Waste Not Want Knots Bad Cop Drop Three Leaf Clover I luv LC Politics Final Interview... Coming Down Practice Swing ...Final Interview Holland Nights Off Route Lure Chinese Takeout This Sh*t's Cursed Photo Shoot Hit the Pipe Ruff Rider End of Chapter Undress to Kill Bad Standing The Holland Play Heavy Toll The Snow Storm Marta Full of Grace Shifting Weight Have a Heart A Long Way to Fall Diamonds in the Rough Taking in the Trash Roman's Holiday Meltdown *Johnny does random characters and gang wars* Actions Speak Louder Then Words I Need Your Clotches, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle Hostile Negotiation Smackdown Babysitting Tunnel of Death Museum Piece Collector's Item Blood Brothers Undertaker I'll Take Her Was It Worth It? No Way on the Subway Weekend at Florian's Get Lost Late Checkout
that order is impossible to do
You cannot do Packie's missions before finishing Elizabeta's missions
The order I did the missions was this
Blow Your Cover ALL Playboy and Dwayne missions Puerto Rican Connection ALL Francis missions The Snow Storm ALL ULPC missions Have a Heart
As you can see I did 8 missions in between Call and Collect and Have a Heart as well as doing stunt jumps, pigeons, most wanted, races, friends and activities etc etc and saving frequently which progresses time by 6 hours
The time span was at least 2 weeks in game time, probably more
Packie NEVER called during all this time
As soon as I completed Have a Heart, Packie called a few seconds later
You cannot do Packie missions until completed Have a Heart
Are you sure you did all ULP missions before Have a Heart?
I did the same as you up until "The Snow Storm", then did "Wrong is Right" and "Portrait of a Killer", but after the latter the 'ULP' icon did not automatically reappear on the map to start "Dust Off". However, once I had completed "Have a Heart", ULP immediately became available again.
Here is a little mission tree I made showing what I mean:
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").
I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.
Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.
Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.
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QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Aug 24 2012, 15:02)
QUOTE (lilchris131 @ Tuesday, Aug 14 2012, 18:20)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").
I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.
Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.
Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.
I see what you mean, but I'm just saying that it's no coincidence that "Photo Shoot" is a pre-requisite for both "Wrong is Right" and "Hostile Negotiation" (and also "Ransom"), since both of these missions use the camera phone, even if it's just for receiving photos. "A Long Way to Fall" also has you receive a photo, but as I said, R* must have forgot to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for this mission since it would normally occur a bit later. But as you say, we can use the fact that phones without a camera can still receive photos as evidence that there is no inconsistency.
I am thinking of playing through GTA IV again whilst we all wait for GTA V
Today I been looking over the walkthroughs and missions trees etc because I want to see if there is some logical order within the actual game 1. I think it makes sense to give priority to texts over answering phone calls. 2. I think it makes sense to answer a phone call and do some urgent mission, rather than do a mission where there is no urgency. 3. It makes more sense to go back and forth between mission bosses when you have the opportunity, to allow a bit of time to pass between each mission for the same boss.
Blow Your Cover After this you unlock PRC and get a text from Playboy that opens DFB. The text does not come straight away and also we have just been with Playboy, so go sleep mode and do PRC. Puerto Rican Connection After this we will be getting 2 texts, one from Playboy, one from unknown and also a call from Elizabeta. Avoid the call for now. Playboy is the text to answer first. Deconstruction for Beginners After this we have the text, the E call and now another call. Still avoid the calls for now. Unknown text will open up Francis missions Call and Collect Now we have Final Interview 1, plus 2 calls waiting to be answered. Calls are priority. Elizabeta is priority over Playboy cos she been calling longer. The Snow Storm......
I am going to play through the game using this method and see what kind of mission order I end up with, I think it will result in a fairly consistent mission order, because the game itself is telling me to go there and do this for them etc.
Avoiding phone calls is very helpful throughout the game. It also does not break any rules of realism because many times we do not answer a call cos we busy. At certain points of you avoid a phone call for a few missions, you will not get a call from a friend pestering you, because they are occupied and unavailable, this is good. Using sleep mode and you wont even receive the call in the first place. If you out of sleep mode to get a text, just ignore the call when it rings. Read text and go into sleep mode.
This post has been edited by RockStarNiko on Thursday, Aug 30 2012, 19:06
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QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)
I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC
eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?
but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom
now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep
its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison
all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?
it gets better though
when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL
also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo
BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around
best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC
just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do
Couldn't agree more. For those interested in playing IV and TLAD without TBoGT (including myself), I don't see a problem with working on an alternative list, considering that some have done lists for TLAD and TBoGT without IV to avoid disc swapping, etc.
The only issue with TLAD is that "Roman's Holiday" and "Diamonds in the Rough" are set up literally at the same time. Forgetting TBoGT completely, Johnny and Niko's stories flow great up to this point, with them doing Liz's missions simultaneously and then unlocking the kidnapping scenario. However, then Johnny has to steal the diamonds for Ray straight after, while Niko has all of Packie's missions to go before he can unlock Ray's strand.
Rockstar could have thought things through better and had the missions available in this order:
Hit the Pipe Heavy Toll Marta Full of Grace Shifting Weight Roman's Holiday End of Chapter Bad Standing Diamonds in the Rough
That way both Niko and Johnny could unlock the kidnapping scenario after Elizabeta's strand. Then Niko does Packie's missions including the bank robbery while Johnny deals with Brian and his faction. Then Ray's missions for both protagonists can happen simultaneously.
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:
The differences betwen each are quite interesting
Great video man
It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.
I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.
@lilchris131: Yeah it's funny how such a little change in how and when the missions become available could make things flow so much better.
Not sure wether you've seen this list I created before TBOGT came out, if not you should check it out. The differences are evident.
Also after looking back over the topic and considering the whole prison phone call thing I'm gonna move Francis McReary's mission "Call and Collect" and Elizabeta's mission "Shifting Weight" up a bit on the list so that the gap between the missions for Elizabeta in GTA IV and TLAD are as close together as possible to make it so that it's possible to do the missions between "Have a Heart" and "Shifting Weight" in IV without having to cancel Mallorie's call more than once or twice. It's a small change but it makes a lot of difference I think. It still might help if you turn off Niko's phone after doing "Smackdown" though.
This post has been edited by Money Over Bullshit on Tuesday, Sep 11 2012, 14:11
QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Monday, Sep 10 2012, 23:46)
QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Friday, Sep 7 2012, 13:04)
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:
The differences betwen each are quite interesting
Great video man
It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.
I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.
Thanks I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Monday, Sep 10 2012, 23:46)
QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Friday, Sep 7 2012, 13:04)
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:
The differences betwen each are quite interesting
Great video man
It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.
I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.
Thanks I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?
The way you have the different Points of View split into two and sometimes three different frames. I'd like to see the various shots edited so it's just one neutral view of all of the different events. In some cases (such as Frosting on the Cake and Buyer's Market) the most up to date DLC representations are best and their cutscenes could be included in there entirety, especially since they are so close to the original scenes from IV (as demonstrated so well in your video) but with missions such The Museum and the Diamond/Gracie exchange it would be necessary to switch between the two different perspectives in order to show everything that's going on.
Out of all the scenes the Museum I feel would be the most difficult however since the different versions represent very much what each individual character is seeing at that time i.e the shots of Mori and Isaac are closer in Niko's version because Niko is closer to them during the handover etc. I guess the cutscene portion could be done using just the cutscenes from TLAD and TBOGT but if gameplay were included then after Luis's POV ends the characters three seperate paths would have to be shown in a way that shows them happening at once. In that instance I actually think that having three seperate frames would be the best way to go but have it so there is no empty space on the screen.. perhaps have Luis's POV be twice the width of Niko and Johnny's frames (since it goes on for longer) and sit on top of them in a triangle formation.
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Grand Theft Auto IV
I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios? 
