[RockStarNiko]

this is a good thread, hope discussion starts up again at some point

deconstruction for beginners unlocks assault rifle

three leaf clover unlocks carbine rifle

carbine rifle >>> assault rifle

so why do everyone think three leaf clover should be done before deconstruction?

it does not make any logical sense to me

i have not yet played the DLC games and about 75% through GTA IV

is there anything in GTA IV that indicates you should do three leaf clover much sooner than deconstruction, or is it solely DLC reasons?

i did all other missions that were possible to do before i did three leaf clover because it made more sense to me to complete everything before opening up alderney and getting 250 000 quid

i did deconstruction straight after blow your cover because playboy told me to come over, makes no sense to ignore him for weeks does it?

also i wanted to unlock the penthouse so could save in algonquin

[Jimbatron]

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

[RockStarNiko]

why can photo shoot not be done more or less straight after deconstruction?

what is the reason it needs to be done much later?

after doing blow your cover with playboy i did

deconstruction
ruff rider
undress to kill
photo shoot
holland play

got safehouse and then went back to the main story missions

you should do photo shoot before any mission that involves being sent pictures

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot"). I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs.

[RockStarNiko]

I did every mission that it was possible to do before I did Three Leaf Clover

I saved that mission for last because it is such a big and important mission and unlocks Alderney

Which missions should be done AFTER and why?

[Jimbatron]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 01:53)

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32) Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot"). I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity. I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs.

That must have been a bummer. Your mates could take pictures of you on a night out in an embarrasing position and send them to you, but you couldn't retaliate? I hated camera phones when they came out. You couldn't get away with anything anymore!

@RockStarNiko Several missions must be done after Three Leaf Clover if you want to play all three stories consistently. For instance, Billy appears in Chinese Take Out, which must happen after Three Leaf Clover (as Luis' story starts with this mission). Since this is before Billy gets sent to prison, we know Roman's Holiday must occur after Three Leaf Clover. Similarly Hostile Negotiations must therefore happen after Three Leaf Clover (because it happens after Roman's Holiday). There are several more examples. Check the link to Magic Al's mission tree on the first post to see all the pre-requisites across the three stories.

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 18:27)

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 01:53) QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32) Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot"). I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity. I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs. That must have been a bummer. Your mates could take pictures of you on a night out in an embarrasing position and send them to you, but you couldn't retaliate? I hated camera phones when they came out. You couldn't get away with anything anymore! @RockStarNiko Several missions must be done after Three Leaf Clover if you want to play all three stories consistently. For instance, Billy appears in Chinese Take Out, which must happen after Three Leaf Clover (as Luis' story starts with this mission). Since this is before Billy gets sent to prison, we know Roman's Holiday must occur after Three Leaf Clover. Similarly Hostile Negotiations must therefore happen after Three Leaf Clover (because it happens after Roman's Holiday). There are several more examples. Check the link to Magic Al's mission tree on the first post to see all the pre-requisites across the three stories.

Ya know that's exactly what used to happen mate lol

And yeah RockStarNiko: The list has been quite painstakingly tried and tested at this stage (it took almost 2 years to get the current order nailed down). In saying that though some people do come through from time to time and hit me with an obscure little detail which changes the order so if you're playing through the list and you notice something significant that we have overlooked feel free to let me know.

[RockStarNiko]

Doing Hostile Negotiation after Three Leaf Clover makes sense because it reintroduces Dimitri more towards the end

I did Harboring a Grudge, then Waste not Want Knots, then Hostile Negotiation, then A Long Way to Fall, then Three Leaf Clover

So delaying Hostile by 2 or 3 missions is no problem

I do not understand why Deconstruction for Beginners is put off for so long though

After Blow Your Cover Playboy Texts you asking you to come over, so ignoring him for weeks seems ridiculous

What is the conflict with Deconstruction being done early when you get the text?

Also here is a thought

If you answer playboy text and go and do his mission after Puerto Rican Connection, by the time you have done deconstruction, Francis should then text after saying to meet him at the pier, which is very close to where you do deconstruction mission, that mission takes you all the way back up Algonquin and when completed Elizabeta should call and you relatively close to Bohan

I do not see the logic in delaying Deconstruction for beginners for such a long time

You are ignoring someone telling you to go see them for a mission AND you end up unlocking carbine rifle before you unlock an assault rifle which is just not logical

I wish they had put more bottlenecks in the main story mission tree to avoid these problems

[Magic_Al]

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 21:16)

I do not see the logic in delaying Deconstruction for beginners for such a long time

You may be right about this. Photo Shoot has to be delayed till after Roman's Holiday (which is far into TLAD), because if both Photo Shoot and Have a Heart are complete, Hostile Negotiation will begin automatically. At some point you have to take a long break from Playboy X, but whether it's better between Blow Your Cover and Deconstruction or between Deconstruction and Photo Shoot is the question.

[Money Over Bullshit]

The reason Deconstruction gets pushed so far is because of the missions which come before it. The Packie and Francis's missions and the missions concerning Rocco Pelosi in particular. All of Packie's missions up until Three Leaf Clover and all of Francis's missions up until the second part of Final Interview have to be done before the start of TBOGT and "The Union Trouble" story arc (which includes Deconstruction for Beginners) almost certainly happens one missions after another. Also Hostile negotiation is tied directly to Roman's Holiday thus locking it in place by TLAD's story. In my personal opinion it works out better having all of Playboy and Dwayne's missions together anyway.

[RockStarNiko]

I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC

eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?

but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom

now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep

its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

it gets better though

when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL

also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo

BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around

best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC

just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do

This post has been edited by RockStarNiko on Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:36

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)

I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right? but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!? it gets better though when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do

You're exactly right. Before The Ballad came out I had a nice little list that fit together perfectly then TBOGT was released and f*cked the whole thing up. It explained quite a bit and really capped the whole story off nicely but along the way it messed the timeline around so f*cking bad it's not even funny.. in fact it just makes it blatently obvious that they didn't consider in any great detail how the missions fit at all.

The one mission that really messes everything up though is Chinese Takeout which is a very sloppy crossover anyway, this one mission speaks volumes for Rockstar's commitment that they would mess up the whole flow of the three stories for one little crossover which suggests that This sh*t's Cursed was a set-up but doesn't go any further and therefore leaves us scratching our heads as to how the hell Billy get beat up.

The easy thing to do would have been for Brian to come clean before Johnny kills him, this would've not only showed how disloyal Billy was but also how disloyal Brian was, turning on his beloved leader. He had to of known that Johnny was going to kill him (sooner or later) so why not just tell him that Billy set him up and try and take a bit of the heat off himself?

We must play with the cards we are dealt though.

[Jimbatron]

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

Don't forget though, in the cutscene for "Museum Piece" Ray explodes at Niko yelling "where the f@*! have you been?".

There's no doubt it's a tricky one. Like MOB says, the real problem stems from Billy turning up in "Chinese Take Out". The whole thing would be more flexible otherwise.

Still it does work. And remember, this list allows a consistent playthrough if you do the MISSIONS in this order - but the time taken between them is flexible in terms of the way you play. Where one character seems to be doing nothing for a while, they could be doing side jobs, or random encounters.

[RockStarNiko]

I am almost at the end of GTA IV - 95.81% 85 missions done and I triple checked I done everything so once I do last mission I get 100%

Then I am gonna download and play LOTD and BOGT

After that I will go through the whole lot again doing only story missions

What order does everyone do last 10-15 missions from Bell onwards?

Last mission I did before starting the finale with Pegorino's Pride was Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend

then my sequence went

Payback
Entourage
Catch the Wave
Trespass
To Live and Die in Alderney
Flatline
Dining Out
Pest Control...

Now I am just on my way to Liquidize some Assets

then do ...Pest Control

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 21:31)

I am almost at the end of GTA IV - 95.81% 85 missions done and I triple checked I done everything so once I do last mission I get 100% Then I am gonna download and play LOTD and BOGT After that I will go through the whole lot again doing only story missions What order does everyone do last 10-15 missions from Bell onwards? Last mission I did before starting the finale with Pegorino's Pride was Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend then my sequence went Payback Entourage Catch the Wave Trespass To Live and Die in Alderney Flatline Dining Out Pest Control... Now I am just on my way to Liquidize some Assets then do ...Pest Control

"Entourage" must be done directly after "Ladies Half Price" because of a news story about Bobby Jefferson's visit/Gay Tony's clubs being closed down appears on the internet after these missions. Likely Niko does "Diamonds Are a Girls Best Friend" in the evening and "Entourage" the following morning. So by the time Luis goes home and has a good nights sleep the Jefferson visit (Entourage) will have already happened and therefore the news would have broke about the attack. Other than that though you can do the missions in whatever way you want. My rational for doing "To Live and Die in Alderney" as close to "Truck Hustle" as possible though was to have Frankie (Phil's nephew) hold onto the heroin for the least amount of time possible since he would be anxious to get rid of it.

[trabet]

cool

[RockStarNiko]

After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?

this is my order so far

Clean Serene
Angels America
Liberty Choppers
Its War
Bad Cop Drop
Action Reaction
Buyers Market
Politics
Coming Down

But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

[The_Anti-tragedy]

I've come up with a HUGE theory.
But only for GTA IV and TLAD timeline.
After doing Blow Your Cover for Elizabeta, do The Puerto-Rican Connection and Deconstruction for Beginners. As for Johnny, hold Jim's missions until after Buyer's Market.

QUOTE

After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?

While Jim's missions are going on, Niko does Francis' and Packie's missions, doing Three Leaf Clover, so Johnny can go for Stubbs' missions and Coming Down while Niko does the rest of Francis' missions. Three Leaf Clover opens Luis' story. While johnny does Jim's other missions, Niko does "Photo Shoot", "Ruff Rider" "Undress to Kill" for Playboy and Dwayne and also the Holland Play. While Johnny does Elizabeta's missions,(Heavy Toll, Marta Full of Grace, and Shifting Weight) Niko does the rest of Elizabeta's missions too(The Snow Storm, Have a Heart). After "Waste Not Want Knots" for Packie, Niko will get a call from Ray, ignore his missions until after Have a Heart.
While Johnny does "Diamonds in the Rough" for Ray, and "Roman's Holiday" for Ashley, Niko is doing "A Long Way to Fall", "Taking in the Trash" and "Meltdown. Do Hostile Negotiation and Gerry and Derrick's missions before Museum Piece. Johnny will do random characters and side-missions probably. Niko and Johnny and Luis all tie in for the diamond deal and Niko does Blood Brothers, Undertaker and I'll Take Her after. Johnny does Was it Worth It? while Niko does No Way on the subway. And sometime later, probably while Late Checkout or Weekend at Florian's, Johnny does "Get Lost".
That fixes the "Assault Rifle before Carbine Rifle problem" as DFB is before TLC.
And as Jimbatron states, in Museum Piece, Ray asks Niko, "Whee the f*ck have you been!?" showing how it has been a long time.

[RockStarNiko]

Have a Heart is a key mission

Have a Heart + Call and Collect = Packie calling leading to Three Leaf Clover
Have a Heart + Photo Shoot = Mallorie calling leading to Hostile Negotiation

Maybe there should be a gap between Snow Storm and Have a Heart?

I am just about to do Elizabeta's missions in TLAD so I will have a better idea of her timeline.

If Have a Heart can be delayed then there is a shorter amount of time between Packie 1st call and completing Three Leaf Clover, then do Hostile Negotiation maybe 4 or 5 missions after TLC.

Plenty of people will be calling around this time eg Gerry, Packie, Ray, ULPC possibly for Paper Trail, Playboy possibly so Mallorie can be ignored, just think of it as Niko is busy to answer her calls lol


The best thing about avoiding Mallorie calls is that you are unable to phone Roman to hang out after Have a Heart because he has technically already been kidnapped, which is great because the friends call up far too much especially Roman. It is one less friend to worry about.

Also because I delayed answering Elizabeta (to trigger Snow Storm) for quite a while, maybe a week or more, it meant Jacob never rang me to hang out, which is another bonus.




edit

I just been reading the gta wiki on Elizabeta timeline and it is in wrong order

the order of her missions MUST be

LOTI
BYC/BM
TSS
HAH
HT
MFOG
SW

because it is impossible to do Three Leaf Clover until done Have a Heart and impossible to do the Heavy toll until AFTER This sh*t's Cursed
and This sh*t Cursed is AFTER Three Leaf Clover



This post has been edited by RockStarNiko on Friday, Jan 20 2012, 03:58

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 03:35)

After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market? this is my order so far Clean Serene Angels America Liberty Choppers Its War Bad Cop Drop Action Reaction Buyers Market Politics Coming Down But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

This was mentioned before. As far as I know Bad Cop Drop must be done before Buyer's Market though so it's just a bit of an inconsistency.