[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (LCstuntman @ Oct 31 2009, 21:43)

I think "I Luv LC" should take place after "Three Leaf Clover" Because the only thing I.L.L.C. has to do with T.L.C. is a cutscene. The actual mission in I.L.L.C is after Niko & Friends had escaped.

That's a good point but I've done all of the missions in order of when they start not when they finish. And since Luis is already in the Bank (and quite close to the top of the Q) it's logical to assume that it starts before
Three Leaf Clover.

This post has been edited by Money Over Bullshit on Sunday, Nov 1 2009, 17:43

[liquidus119]

QUOTE (simonp92 @ Nov 1 2009, 14:26)

^ that is incorrect. the mission "buyers market" for elizabetha, is before "this sh*t is cursed"

I don't see what this has to do with anything I said, considering that none of the other Elizabeta missions can be done before This Sh*t's Cursed...

This post has been edited by liquidus119 on Sunday, Nov 1 2009, 18:11

[blahblah1212]

*bump*

This topic deserves to be pinned, until it is I'm not letting it be put on the second page.

On topic: On my other computer I added the rest of TBoGT's missions to that list and I might copy and paste it here sometime soon.

[Magic_Al]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 1 2009, 11:40)

QUOTE (LCstuntman @ Oct 31 2009, 21:43) I think "I Luv LC" should take place after "Three Leaf Clover" Because the only thing I.L.L.C. has to do with T.L.C. is a cutscene. The actual mission in I.L.L.C is after Niko & Friends had escaped. That's a good point but I've done all of the missions in order of when they start not when they finish. And since Luis is already in the Bank (and quite close to the top of the Q) it's logical to assume that it starts before Three Leaf Clover.

I'd say Three Leaf Clover starts before I Luv LC because Three Leaf Clover starts before the robbery and I Luv LC starts in the middle of the robbery. Luis going to the bank is not shown, and even so he wouldn't be waiting at the bank for the amount of in-universe time it takes Niko to pick up Packie's crew and drive to Algonquin (or longer if Niko has to get a suit first). In-universe time and space is compressed. In TBoGT Luis tells his friends he lives 10 minutes away by train, which obviously refers to the imaginary bigger city that the game map is only a sample of.

[Versityle]

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Oct 31 2009, 21:20)

I'm still very early in TBoGT yet (I take GTA real slow) but I've taken a break to plug the Chinese Takeout problem into my mission tree. It's not looking good.  At all. The chart software physically cannot put things in the right order unless we change some assumptions about TLAD's relationship to IV.  The first thing that has to go is the news-story link between "This sh*t's Cursed" and "Final Interview Part 2", which I'm changing to be "This sh*t's Cursed" follows Goldberg's murder instead of being simultaneous.  However, the side effect is pushing TLAD's timeline down so much that "Diamonds in the Rough" is past "Taking In the Trash".  So it's a mess right now. EDIT: working on it. I think it'll be OK.

I'm all for changing some of the assumptions between IV and TLAD's relationship. In fact I was the first to bring this up. If you look at my very first post in this thread you'll see it, I'm copying and pasting it here as well please have a read and tell me what you think:
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I was actually going over my own custom list I made from the guidance from this thread and I think I might have found a solution but I'm not sure if M.O.B or anyone else is going to like it, but I thought it over and over and there's simply no other way.

Having said that I still haven't finished the game obviously, I'm taking it slow and savoring the first playthru, but going back to Elizebeta and "The Snow Storm":

We had assumed that the drugs (can't remember if it was coke/heroin/etc.) from "The Snow Storm" was the same drugs Johnny stole from the A.O.D in "Heavy Toll". I'm not sure but I don't think there is any solid evidence to support this. It was a safe theory but again Liz is a huge drug dealer and she probably has all sorts of drugs coming in from all over town but it would then leave the question what she did with the A.O.D drugs, I guess we can assume she sold them/kept them or put them together with the drugs Marta smuggled in, who knows?

Secondly, M.O.B made the point that "Have a Heart" and "Marta Full of Grace" took place at the same time because of the circumstances that Liz was in with the gun, the drink and the paranoia. Again a good assumption but no solid evidence, her gun, drink and paranoia could have been taking place over a span of several days, maybe weeks and those two moments could have been separate.

Those assumptions work fine, but if we were to officialize it in the list then we would get nowhere with trying to figure out where "Chinese Takeout" will go. If we were to remove those assumptions and do "The Snow Storm" and "Have a Heart" a bit earlier without completing "Photo Shoot" we can probably unlock Packie's missions quicker thus unlocking "Three Leaf Clover" much before "Hostile Negotiation/Roman's Holiday" and "This sh*t's Cursed".

If this is too confusing please clarify I'll answer the best I can.
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As much I as I don't want to, if we were to change ANY assumptions, it should be those two I stated above if we can do that, then This sh*t's Cursed and Final Interview can still very well take place closer together.

[liquidus119]

I agree that we have to throw those assumptions out the window to get anywhere with this. The only thing screwing this up after throwing out those assumptions is when exactly Elizabeta gets taken down, because I know it isn't immediately after Have A Heart, it actually takes some time for the news story to pop up...

One could make the assumption that she lets Niko free before Johnny because of Niko's relationship to Mallorie. Perhaps she would keep Johnny along a little bit longer as he was more desperate for money and didn't have that relationship.

I also agree with Magic_Al about Three Leaf Clover being placed before I Luv LC on any sort of list that is made, it just seems to make more sense to me.

[blahblah1212]

Here's my addition to it, it's probably mostly wrong, but at least I tried.

Grand Theft Auto IV
Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned
Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony

[R] The Cousins Bellic
[R] It's Your Call
[R] Three's a Crowd
[R] Bleed Out
[M] First Date
[R] Easy Fare
[R] Jamaican Heat
[LJ] Concrete Jungle
[V] Bull In a China Shop
[V] Hung Out to Dry
[B][V] Clean Getaway
[V][/B] Ivan the Not So Terrible
[V] Uncle Vlad
[MF] Crime and Punishment
[MF] Do You Have Protection?
[LJ] Shadow
[B] Clean and Serene
[MF] Final Destination
[B] Angels In America
[MF] No Love Lost [+]
[MF] Rigged to Blow
[B][J] Liberty City Choppers
[R] Logging On
[J] Bad Cop Drop
[DR] The Master and the Molotov
[DR] Russian Revolution
[R] Roman's Sorrow
[B] It's War [-]
[ME] Escuela of the Streets
[ME] Street Sweeper
[B] Action/Reaction
[E] Luck of the Irish
[E] Buyer's Market [+]
[E] Blow Your Cover [-]
[BK] Search and Delete
[BK] Easy As Can Be
[S] Politics
[BK] Out of the Closet
[A] Coming Down
[BK] No. 1
[ME] The Puerto Rican Connection
[FMC] Call and Collect
[S] Off Route
[PMC] Harboring a Grudge
[PMC] Waste Not Want Knots
[PMC] Three Leaf Clover [+]
[GT] I Luv LC [-]
[GT] Practice Swing
[GT] Chinese Takeout
[FMC] Final Interview
[B] This sh*t's Cursed
[ML] Momma’s Boys
[FMC] Holland Nights
[J] Hit the Pipe
[A&H] Corner Kids
[FMC] Lure
[E] Heavy Toll
[GT] Clocking Off
[E] The Snow Storm
[E] Marta Full Of Grace
[Y] Sexy Time
[E] Have a Heart
[E] Shifting Weight
[MK] Kibbutz Number One
[X] Deconstruction for Beginners
[J] End of Chapter
[GT] Bang Bang
[D] Ruff Rider
[J] Bad Standing
[GT] Blog This!
[D] Undress to Kill
[X] Photo Shoot
[Y] High Dive
[A] Roman's Holiday [+]
[R] Hostile Negotiation [-]
[Y] Caught With Your Pants Down
[X/D] The Holland Play
[MK] This Ain’t Checkers
[MK] No. 3
[RB] A Long Way to Fall
[GT] Frosting On The Cake [+]
[RB] Diamonds In the Rough [-]
[RB] Taking In the Trash [=]
[GT] Boulevard Baby
[RB] Meltdown
[GT] …Blog This!
[RB] Collector's Item [+]
[RB] Museum Piece [-]
[GT] Not So Fast [=]
[RB] Was It Worth It? [+]
[RB] No Way on the Subway [-]
[RB] Late Checkout
[RB] Weekend at Florian's
[S] Get Lost
[GMC] Actions Speak Louder than Words
[GMC] I Need Your Clothes, Yours Boots and Your Motorcycle
[DMC] Smackdown
[DMC] Babysitting
[DMC] Tunnel of Death
[FMC] Blood Brothers
[PMC] Undertaker
[ULP] Wrong Is Right
[ULP] Portrait of a Killer
[ULP] Dust Off
[ULP] Paper Trail
[BC] Hating the Haters
[BC] Union Drive
[BC] Buoy's Ahoy
[BC] Bryce's Infernus
[GMC] I'll Take Her
[PMC] Ransom
[GMC] She's A Keeper
[GT] Ladies’ Night
[ROB] Going Deep
[ROB] Dropping In…
[ROB] In The Crosshairs
[Y] For The Man Who Has Everything
[GMC] Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend [+]
[GT] Ladies Half Price [-]
[PB] Truck Hustle
[JP] Pegorino's Pride
[JP] Payback
[PB] Catch the Wave
[PB] Trespass
[PB] To Live and Die In Alderney
[JP] Flatline
[JP] Pest Control
[G] Entourage
[G] Dining Out
[G] Liquidize the Assets
[ULP] That Special Someone
[JP] One Last Thing
[PB] If The Price Is Right/A Dish Served Cold
[R] Mr. & Mrs. Bellic
[LJ] A Revenger's Tragedy/Out of Commission
[GT] Party’s Over
[GT] Departure Time

This post has been edited by blahblah1212 on Monday, Nov 2 2009, 00:56

[Money Over Bullshit]

Aside from which mission Starts first I also didn't want any Luis or Johnny missions to be back to back on the list and If I were to put ILLC B4 TLC then it and Chinese Takeout would be one after the other. I know that even if I was playing the games concurrently I would do I luv LC after Three Leaf Clover but for the pupose of aestetics I have a Niko mission in the middle to break the two missions up.

[shinsta312]

@blahblah1212

Again, in order to play Packie's missions, you have to complete both "Have a Heart" and "Call and Collect". So I don't think that it's possible that "Have a Heart" would take place after Packie's missions.

Plus, I think that the story of Tony's clubs closing down first appeared after completing "Entourage". So "Party's Over" would have taken place during the Gravelli missions.

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 1 2009, 00:02)

And I don't believe that Roman's death is necessarily canon, considering that Dimitri was already on top of a rather large stock pile of Heroin even before the deal with Pegorino.  Wasn't he actually over-seeing his men stock piling heroin within the Platypus during the Revenge storyline?

I can believe that. Assuming that it's true, than R* wouldn't have necessarily have made one ending the canonical ending.

This post has been edited by shinsta312 on Monday, Nov 2 2009, 01:44

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (shinsta312 @ Nov 2 2009, 01:40)

@blahblah1212 Again, in order to play Packie's missions, you have to complete both "Have a Heart" and "Call and Collect". So I don't think that it's possible that "Have a Heart" would take place after Packie's missions. Plus, I think that the story of Tony's clubs closing down first appeared after completing "Entourage". So "Party's Over" would have taken place during the Gravelli missions. QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 1 2009, 00:02) Wait, I want to see if I have this straight now MOB. And I don't believe that Roman's death is necessarily canon, considering that Dimitri was already on top of a rather large stock pile of Heroin even before the deal with Pegorino.  Wasn't he actually over-seeing his men stock piling heroin within the Platypus during the Revenge storyline? I can believe that. Assuming that it's true, than R* wouldn't have necessarily have made one ending the canonical ending.

As I've said before if that is indeed the case then Chinese Takeout Can't happen plain and simple. As regards to Party's Over taking place during Gravelli's Missions, I think that's a fair assumption.

I've tried putting all of the missions from TBOGT into a list on my computer but I can't remember the exact order of missions and what needs to be done before what etc. so I will have to play it again. It shudn't take me too long though so all the missions should be on the list (in the correct order or not) by the end of the week.

[shinsta312]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Nov 1 2009, 19:49)

As I've said before if that is indeed the case then Chinese Takeout Can't happen plain and simple. As regards to Party's Over taking place during Gravelli's Missions, I think that's a fair assumption. I've tried putting all of the missions from TBOGT into a list on my computer but I can't remember the exact order of missions and what needs to be done before what etc. so I will have to play it again. It shudn't take me too long though so all the missions should be on the list (in the correct order or not) by the end of the week.

See, I'm curious about that. Why would it be impossible for "Chinese Takeout" to happen?

I also got a list of missions that I'm planning to post up on this thread soon. Probably in a couple of days, maybe.

[loll22]

This thread should be renamed "The Impossible Trinity".

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE (shinsta312 @ Nov 2 2009, 01:57)

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 1 2009, 19:49) As I've said before if that is indeed the case then Chinese Takeout Can't happen plain and simple. As regards to Party's Over taking place during Gravelli's Missions, I think that's a fair assumption. I've tried putting all of the missions from TBOGT into a list on my computer but I can't remember the exact order of missions and what needs to be done before what etc. so I will have to play it again. It shudn't take me too long though so all the missions should be on the list (in the correct order or not) by the end of the week. See, I'm curious about that. Why would it be impossible for "Chinese Takeout" to happen? I also got a list of missions that I'm planning to post up on this thread soon. Probably in a couple of days, maybe.

Because it happens before This sh*t's Cursed which happens before Have a Heart meaning that it can't happen after Three Leaf Clover which according to TBOGT it does.

[liquidus119]

Party's over can't possibly take place during Gravelli's missions, as it takes place directly before Departure Time and that takes place AFTER A Revengers Tragedy/Out Of Commission. Party's Over can only take place after these missions as well, which pretty much means that a crapload of time passes between Tony's phone call informing you that the clubs closed down and Rocco's phone call asking you to meet him and Vince in Middle Park.

The only way for this to work is to get rid of the assumption that Niko and Johnny's missions for Elizabeta happen parallel to each other, but the only problem with that is the actual amount of time it takes for the news story of Elizabeta being captured to be told on the radio.


This post has been edited by liquidus119 on Monday, Nov 9 2009, 03:46

[shinsta312]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Nov 1 2009, 20:09)

QUOTE (shinsta312 @ Nov 2 2009, 01:57) QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 1 2009, 19:49) As I've said before if that is indeed the case then Chinese Takeout Can't happen plain and simple. As regards to Party's Over taking place during Gravelli's Missions, I think that's a fair assumption. I've tried putting all of the missions from TBOGT into a list on my computer but I can't remember the exact order of missions and what needs to be done before what etc. so I will have to play it again. It shudn't take me too long though so all the missions should be on the list (in the correct order or not) by the end of the week. See, I'm curious about that. Why would it be impossible for "Chinese Takeout" to happen? I also got a list of missions that I'm planning to post up on this thread soon. Probably in a couple of days, maybe. Because it happens before This sh*t's Cursed which happens before Have a Heart meaning that it can't happen after Three Leaf Clover which according to TBOGT it does.

Yeah, about that.

On the "Best of Both Worlds" thread, You've assumed that while Johnny went to the airport in "Marta Full of Grace", Niko showed up, starting the "Have a Heart" mission. Other than her snorting and drinking in both scenes, there wasn't any other proof that both missions took place at the same time.

Plus, I don't think that this would be the first time that Elizabeta went paranoid and drugged-up crazy about the feds. She did have many connections and she has been a target of the LCPD before Niko or Johnny did missions for her.

[Magic_Al]

Finished the story finally (I'm slow). On my mission tree at this point there's no problem with Chinese Takeout. It fits into the IV and TLAD mission trees with no conflicts. I need to do another playthrough to verify prerequisites within TLAD, and then I'll post the chart.

[Money Over Bullshit]

QUOTE

Party's over can't possibly take place during Gravelli's missions, as it takes place directly before Departure Time and that takes place AFTER A Revengers Tragedy/Out Of Commission. Party's Over can only take place after these missions as well, which pretty much means that a crapload of time passes between Tony's phone call informing you that the clubs closed down and Rocco's phone call asking you to meet him and Vince in Middle Park. The only way for this to work is to get rid of the assumption that Niko and Johnny's missions for Elizabeta happen parallel to each other, but the only problem with that is the actual amount of time it takes for the news story of Elizabeta being captured to be told on the radio. This is the list I have come up with. Keep in mind that alterations have to be made when I figure out exactly what triggers the news story about Elizabetas capture as well as for the mission that triggers the second half of "Blog This!" as I forgot.

I still don't see how Party's Over can't happen during Gravelli's missions as u didn't actually give a reason

The Story of Elizabeta getting sentenced on the internet is triggered by completing Diamonds are a Girl's best friend... not sure about the radio.

The assumption I made about Elizabeta's missions was not through any fact atall and I just really said the bit about Niko coming in when Johnny was in the airport to put for flow and depth in the story. Logicly all of the events involving Liz would run parrallel to each other and we know they start and end at the same time due to the Blow Your Cover Crossover and her telling both Niko and Johnny that she needs to stop working with them due to the cops closing in on her at the end of her last mission for both of them. I highly doubt she'd tell Niko Several days before she told Johnny. And a phone call you get as Niko from somebody (jacob or Mallorie) states that she has been arrested after Have a Heart which means that she wouldn't be there to give the mission Shifting Weight to Johnny. So there is in fact more "evidence" of the missions happen parallel than them not.

[liquidus119]

QUOTE (Money Over Bullshit @ Nov 2 2009, 13:24)

I still don't see how Party's Over can't happen during Gravelli's missions as u didn't actually give a reason The Story of Elizabeta getting sentenced on the internet is triggered by completing Diamonds are a Girl's best friend... not sure about the radio. The assumption I made about Elizabeta's missions was not through any fact atall and I just really said the bit about Niko coming in when Johnny was in the airport to put for flow and depth in the story. Logicly all of the events involving Liz would run parrallel to each other and we know they start and end at the same time due to the Blow Your Cover Crossover and her telling both Niko and Johnny that she needs to stop working with them due to the cops closing in on her at the end of her last mission for both of them. I highly doubt she'd tell Niko Several days before she told Johnny. And a phone call you get as Niko from somebody (jacob or Mallorie) states that she has been arrested after Have a Heart which means that she wouldn't be there to give the mission Shifting Weight to Johnny. So there is in fact more "evidence" of the missions happen parallel than them not.

Yes I did, I just didn't explain it properly cause I assumed everyone else would notice.

At the end of Party's Over, I believe Tony claims he is going to flee the city because Bulgarin (and Ancelotti's?) are out to kill him. He then heads for his apartment.

Departure Time opens up with him packing his suitcase, meaning that it logically has to take place shortly after Party's Over. And since Departure Time takes place after Dimitri is killed, that means that Party's Over has to take place after he is killed as well.

And thank you for the Elizabeta sentencing trigger, even though it doesn't help since you get the call saying she is arrested after "Have a Heart" (I forgot about that)

[Money Over Bullshit]

I've put all of the BOGT missions in what I think is the correct order.
No doubt that order will change over time though.

This post has been edited by Money Over Bullshit on Monday, Nov 2 2009, 15:01

[Le Rusecue]

Here is mine. There are a few problems, I'll fix them, however.

[R] The Cousins Bellic
[R] It's Your Call
[R] Three's a Crowd
[R] Bleed Out
[M] First Date
[R] Easy Fare
[R] Jamaican Heat
[LJ] Concrete Jungle
[V] Bull In a China Shop
[V] Hung Out to Dry
[V] Clean Getaway
[V] Ivan the Not So Terrible
[V] Uncle Vlad
[MF] Crime and Punishment
[MF] Do You Have Protection?
[LJ] Shadow
[BG] Clean and Serene
[MF] Final Destination
[BG] Angels In America
[MF] No Love Lost-[BG] It's War
[MF] Rigged to Blow
[BG] Action/Reaction
[J] Liberty City Choppers
[R] Logging On
[J] Bad Cop Drop
[DR]The Master and the Molotov
[DR] Russian Revolution
[R] Roman's Sorrow
[ME] Escuela of the Streets
[ME] Street Sweeper
[E] Luck of the Irish
[E] Buyer's Market-[E] Blow Your Cover
[BK] Search and Delete
[BK] Easy As Can Be
[S] Politics
[BK] Out of the Closet
[A] Coming Down
[BK] No. 1
[ME] The Puerto Rican Connection
[FMC] Call and Collect
[S] Off Route
[PMC] Harboring a Grudge
[PMC] Waste Not Want Knots
[GT] I Luv LC-[PMC] Three Leaf Clover
[GT] Practice Swing
[GT] Chinese Takeout-[BG] This sh*t's Cursed
[FMC] Final Interview
[ML] Momma's Boy
[FMC] Holland Nights
[J] Hit the Pipe
[ML] Corner Kids
[FMC] Lure
[ML] Clocking Off
[J] End of Chapter
[J] Bad Standing
[E] Heavy Toll
[E] The Snow Storm-[E] Marta Full Of Grace
[E] Have a Heart-[E] Shifting Weight
[X] Deconstruction for Beginners
[YA] Sexy Time
[MK] Kibbutz No.1
[D] Ruff Rider
[GT] Bang Bang
[D] Undress to Kill
[GT] Blog This!
[X] Photo Shoot
[A] Roman's Holiday-[R] Hostile Negotiation
[YA] High Dive
[X/D] The Holland Play
[YA] Caught With Your Pants Down
[MK] This Aint Checkers
[MK] No. 3
[RB] A Long Way to Fall
[GT] Frosting On The Cake-[RB] Diamonds In the Rough
[RB] Taking In the Trash
[GT] Boulevard Baby
[RB] Meltdown
[GT] ...Blog This!
[RB] Collector's Item-[RB] Museum Piece-[GT] Not So Fast
[RB] Was It Worth It?-[RB] No Way on the Subway
[RB] Late Checkout
[RB] Weekend at Florian's
[S] Get Lost
[GMC] Actions Speak Louder than Words
[GMC] I Need Your Clothes, Yours Boots and Your Motorcycle
[DMC] Smackdown
[DMC] Babysitting
[DMC] Tunnel of Death
[FMC] Blood Brothers
[PMC] Undertaker
[ULP] Wrong Is Right
[ULP] Portrait of a Killer
[ULP] Dust Off
[ULP] Paper Trail
[BC] Hating the Haters
[BC] Union Drive
[BC] Buoy's Ahoy
[BC] Bryce's Infernus
[PB] Truck Hustle
[JP] Pegorino's Pride
[JP] Payback
[GMC] I'll Take Her
[PMC] Ransom
[GT] Ladies' Night-[GMC] She's A Keeper
[B] Going Deep
[GT] Dropping In
[B] In The Crosshairs
[YA] For The Man Who Has Everything
[GMC] Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend-[GT] Ladies Half Price
[G] Entourage
[PB] Catch the Wave
[PB] Trespass
[PB] To Live and Die In Alderney
[JP] Flatline
[JP] Pest Control
[G] Dining Out
[G] Liquidize the Assets
[RP] Party's Over
[ULP] That Special Someone
[JP] One Last Thing
[DR] If the Price Is Right/A Dish Served Cold
[R] Mr. & Mrs. Bellic
[LJ] A Revenger's Tragedy/Out of Commission
[GT] Departure Time