[MoeRonimoe]

QUOTE ([CTD)

LaBan,Jun 15 2007, 16:56] QUOTE (Monitor57 @ Jun 15 2007, 00:41) Awesome mod man, only 1 problem. instead of being able to see realtime reflections, all the cars with reflection display some weird sort of funny discoulered refmap which never changes or moves... - M57 /me has same problem is it possible to add blur effect to VC like THAT It have been done with San Andreas...

Same problem here
Is it my sh*ty graphic-card? =0

btw. the water looks like a bottle full of awesomeness
I want those real time reflections too

pictures:
http://i11.tinypic.com/681gpok.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/4vq1h8n.jpg

This post has been edited by MoeRonimoe on Friday, Jun 15 2007, 17:20

[jp245]

all i see is a spec map which never moves like monitor

[DexX]

Ok, for those of you having problems, there's a couple things:
-your having trouble with the "reflection map" - "specular maps" are something else entirely, and this mod doesn't use them. The specularity you see is calculated per vertex, and no textures are involved. not trying to nitpick, but we're all going to get confused if we start using incorrect terminology. your issues are with the reflection map.
Your video card should not make any difference, since i'm only using functions that are already in the game. since i'm re-using code that shipped with the executable, you should not see any new errors. More than likely, there is a difference between the exe you are using (by "you" i mean everyone with the reflection problem) and the one i tested this mod against. As i mentioned in the first post, i was only able to test it against an american 1.0 exe. if you know this is not the exe you have, please tell me which one you are using.

@ Squiddy/Steavor/Ak - i'm ok on standardizing a certain plugin folder, and that's probably the name of the folder i would cast my vote for; "plugins". short, simple, and intuitive.

@Ak - the specular power is set in the ini. i had planned on somehow tying it in with the weather (along with some other attributes) so the effect would be dynamic, and actually change over time. That, i would be willing to help code an external config file for, but i would still like to keep the material specular multipliers, and the specular power, as separate floats.

@ ir and masterk - i'll probably add a spec multiplier for peds, since they do look a little more dynamic with it. then people who don't want it, can simply turn it off, and you can set it to whatever you want. best of both worlds.

QUOTE

is it possible to add blur effect to VC like THAT It have been done with San Andreas...

maybe, but it would take some work (besides turning on trails and putting on full AA). part of the reason it looks like that, is because R* is notorious for touching up their screenshots outside of the game engine.

@ everyone else - thank you for the feedback!

[[CTD]LaBan]

original american exe or nocd exe? I prefer using american nocd 1.0

[MasterK]

Well, i'm using an american 1.0 nocd exe.. same as my friend.. But at me it isn't working, the funny thing is that, it's working at my friends vc

Soo... I havn't got any other mods installed (hence my fresh install of vice city).
I've tried changing some settings in catalyst, nothing happens..

EDIT: Could it be a directX version problem?

[LCSurvivor]

I've tested your mod, your screens look great, but it doesn't work. Not in my LC-modified Vice, or in my clean Vice City folder, both tested with the original uk .exe version, and the No-CD .exe. I'm thinking, since most people who have posted with problems haven't got the US version, the problem might be the different .exe's.

Would be great if you got it to work for the other versions too

[SteaVor]

This would be no problem at all (via Hammer83's vcversion.dll), but if MasterK is right, then it won't help.

[LCSurvivor]

Ah yeah, the vcversion.dll allready was in the LC folder, and I just tried it with the .dll in the VC folder, still nothing. I don't know where I can see what version of directX I have installed, but I thought it was the latest version. I can't think of anything else that could cause the problem, I'll see if I can find a directX update.

Hope that solves it.

EDIT: I've updated my drivers, and checked my DirectX, and that's also up to date now. It still doesn't work. Pity.

Any more ideas?

This post has been edited by LCSurvivor on Saturday, Jun 16 2007, 20:58

[SteaVor]

, DexX would have to update his ASI(s) to make use of the vcversion module. It doesn't help to put the DLL into the folder and expect it to work all of a sudden.

[LCSurvivor]

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm kinda new at this, I kinda expected it to work miraculously

I'll wait then, untill DexX updates his mod. Thanks for the help Steavor

[MasterK]

Well, tried the mod out at my friend.. He has an Ati Radeon 9550, and it didn't worked (the same exe as mine). Then tried it at an other friends comp, he has an EN7950gt,
and it DID work :S

So, i think it's because of different video cards, don't ask me why

This post has been edited by MasterK on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 13:43

[atfburner]

Great work looks lovely
using, v1 no-cd usa. nvidia 8800

nice reflections!


Combined with xbox graphics for pc .dll


Note i had to use the nvidia global profile settings to get antialiasing and other cool things working
first attempts, still a few problems


This post has been edited by atfburner on Sunday, Jun 17 2007, 14:01

[GTAdedan]

is it a problem when you have other mods like cars, trees and a new map and man.scm installed because the game freezes..

[AK-73]

QUOTE (Ben @ Jun 14 2007, 23:58)

I agree as well.  It'd certainly be more "user-friendly" for people who are less experienced in the world of modding, and it makes logical sense.  Not that I could program anything that would make it work, but I hope someone out there can. @DexX - looks great, I'll be sure to check this out when my uni holidays start next Wednesday.

It's not too difficult either. You do it by hooking into the .dff loading process. You check the currently loading model with a list of names (derived via .cfg file) and if it contains it, you overwrite the existing data with the specular lighting data from the .cfg file (per texture).

Config file would have to look something like this:

[model = banshee]
sometexturename = 0.7
someothertexturename = 0.0
...

[model = cheetah]
...


You get the idea.

You can even do another section for world geometry. World Geometry does have specular values for certain textures - R* created it but the game doesn't make use of it. How to make use of it? Simple: if the name of a model is included in the .cfg, one could create normals on the fly. All this is of course ressource heavy. It's then up to the user to decide how much specular lighting their computer can stand.

And while we're on the subject of hooking into .dff loading: the standard .dffs does only contain one float dedicated to specular lighting per texture, no? But we need two, right? So if you don't use a clever mechanism to store both of them within 4 bytes, you need to allocate an additional float per texture. Which might be doable. For example, now while writing a new update to GTA:FPS I am already capable of storing all kinds of custom data per actor. I use that in my case to store which firemode (burst, full auto, single shot) gets used for a weapon (per slot).

But which solution you go for is ultimately up to you.

Alex

This post has been edited by AK-73 on Monday, Jun 18 2007, 10:18

[DexX]

QUOTE (AK-73 @ Jun 18 2007, 05:12)

It's not too difficult either. You do it by hooking into the .dff loading process. You check the currently loading model with a list of names (derived via .cfg file) and if it contains it, you overwrite the existing data with the specular lighting data from the .cfg file (per texture). Config file would have to look something like this: [model = banshee] sometexturename = 0.7 someothertexturename = 0.0 ... [model = cheetah] ... You get the idea. You can even do another section for world geometry. World Geometry does have specular values for certain textures - R* created it but the game doesn't make use of it. How to make use of it? Simple: if the name of a model is included in the .cfg, one could create normals on the fly. All this is of course ressource heavy. It's then up to the user to decide how much specular lighting their computer can stannd.

are you familiar with the concept of Materials? i'll briefly explain.

Each triangle gets a material assignment, which contains not just texture references, if any, but also the specular, diffuse, ambient and other lighting attributes.
So for example, the artist could create a wheel for his model that uses 2 materials, and one texture; the first material for the rubber (tread, sidewall) on the wheel could have very low specular settings, the second material for the metal part of the wheel might have significantly higher specular settings. Both materials however, are using the same wheel texture.

So with your method, every time the wheel texture is called, it would override the specular settings of the material, effectively nullifying the work of the artist. There is also the issue of glass, and other flat-colored materials that are not textured, and would thus not be affected.

Personally, i think it would be preferable to re-export the models that need changing. it may be slower, but it provides the utmost control. creating files that would over-ride settings the models already have isn't exactly an ideal solution.

QUOTE

And while we're on the subject of hooking into .dff loading: the standard .dffs does only contain one float dedicated to specular lighting per texture, no? But we need two, right? So if you don't use a clever mechanism to store both of them within 4 bytes, you need to allocate an additional float per texture. Which might be doable. For example, now while writing a new update to GTA:FPS I am already capable of storing all kinds of custom data per actor. I use that in my case to store which firemode (burst, full auto, single shot) gets used for a weapon (per slot).

adding extra data to the model, or in this case, material would be preferred, so yes, i like that idea. To accurately calculate specular lighting, you need 2 floats:
-specular multiplier, which controls the overall amount of spec. this is already present.
-specular power, which controls the intensity of the specular hilight. this is NOT present in Rw materials.
The specular multiplier changes significantly more per material than the power does, which is why i'm content with leaving the power as a global variable. however, if could append our own float to each material in the dff, and use that for the specular power, i wouldn't say no. infact, the plugin system in Rw was created just for this purpose, and R* used it (object frame names in vc, lots of places in SA), so all the code we need is present in the game already. I've already stated i'm willing to re-export the models, so appending extra data isn't a big deal to me.

QUOTE

is it a problem when you have other mods like cars, trees and a new map and man.scm installed because the game freezes..

i test mods on a nearly-stock VC install, since it's the only set of files i know everyone has, or had at one time. With that in mind, i would need to know which exact mods you had installed, so i could try them for myself. only the material settings and reflection images are changed. your game might look "different" depending on the mod, but it should not crash.

QUOTE

Combined with xbox graphics for pc .dll

ditch that. this does what it did, only better and with more control. if you want trails, i can add them real fast.

QUOTE

So, i think it's because of different video cards, don't ask me why

i hope it's not, because that's really out of my control, unless i know the exact difference(s) that cause it to work/not work..
for the record, my card is a GeForce 7600 GS

The next release will with either incorporate Hammer's version dll (thanks for the heads up), or a similar version checking routine.

Sidenote: Are reflections the only thing people are having problems with? Does the specular lighting work ok? no-one seems to be compliaining about spec, just the messed up reflection map...

[MasterK]

well, as i explained a while ago, spec lights aren't working at me.

it apples to te player, or the peds if they're driving a bike or a car

[SteaVor]

It looks like an ATI/nVidia issue. As far as I can see everyone who gets the distorted reflection map uses ATI, while the ones that report no issues use a nVidia GPU. That would suck because my primary gaming rig runs with a Radeon X850.
I didn't have time to test it thoroughly yet, but I should be able to shortly.

[ParoXum]

I have the reflection map glitch on my X1800GTO... It's like Steavor said imo.

Also, what about the water, since it don't work properly on my comp, how does it look normally ?

[SteaVor]

Hmmm... looks like it's time to fiddle with some driver settings I suppose. It's probably a setting which is set different on ATi and nVidia GPUs by default.

[AK-73]

QUOTE (DexX @ Jun 18 2007, 19:02)

are you familiar with the concept of Materials?

Yes.

QUOTE

Both materials however, are using the same wheel texture.

Well, texture name doesn't have to be the identifier, it was just a suggestion... how to correctly identify the relevant material is a matter of mechanism.

QUOTE

So with your method, every time the wheel texture is called, it would override the specular settings of the material, effectively nullifying the work of the artist.

Yeah, that seems to be the *point*. The point behind the config would be to be able to specify your own specular values without having to recompile any model, solving distribution problems that way also. One argument against re-export is that you'd have to make available all re-exported cars. If you want to avoid that you must make the relevant data available from a different source, no?

QUOTE

There is also the issue of glass, and other flat-colored materials that are not textured, and would thus not be affected.

Again, this is a question of developing an identifying mechanism for a material.

QUOTE

Personally, i think it would be preferable to re-export the models that need changing. it may be slower, but it provides the utmost control. creating files that would over-ride settings the models already have isn't exactly an ideal solution.

It's your mod but I'd disagree on that. Control via a config file is by no means less than via re-export - the exact same values are present... only in different locations. It's even possible to extent material properties this way if so desired without changing a single .dff. The one disadvantage I see to that is speed.

QUOTE

adding extra data to the model, or in this case, material would be preferred, so yes, i like that idea. To accurately calculate specular lighting, you need 2 floats: -specular multiplier, which controls the overall amount of spec. this is already present. -specular power, which controls the intensity of the specular hilight. this is NOT present in Rw materials. The specular multiplier changes significantly more per material than the power does, which is why i'm content with leaving the power as a global variable. however, if could append our own float to each material in the dff, and use that for the specular power, i wouldn't say no. infact, the plugin system in Rw was created just for this purpose, and R* used it (object frame names in vc, lots of places in SA), so all the code we need is present in the game already. I've already stated i'm willing to re-export the models, so appending extra data isn't a big deal to me.

If you need some hints for where to look at, I could give you.

Alex