[Cerbera]

Should the coastline of the map be updated to show what the coastline is actually like now people have built on it? For example, the North East now has a big cutout from the Marina and a big extension from DieselGT's docks. There's also a tiny island in the South-east, plus the power station island and a few other alterations.

[Cran.]

QUOTE (AleXXX @ Jul 15 2006, 04:41)

Cran., Don't save lot map in *.jpg - save it in *.png! New lot map in png

Ummm, I can't notice one difference in quailty.. And it's smaller in jpeg.

@Cerb hmmm, maybe like a birds eye screenshot showing all of that with textures and all (I'm talking about the released lots, ofcourse). Rest could stay in the colours.

[lord fido]

... Post deleted by lord fido on Jul 31 2006, 23:04

This post has been edited by lord fido on Monday, Jul 31 2006, 23:03

[lord fido]

Bump.


Lot: illcom_c3_r1
Pics: Pic1 Pic 2 (ingame)
Description: It's gonna be a little italian hood with a market and a skyscraper.


Sorry bout it says 'illcom_c2_r9. I wanted to take this lot , but somebody took it (i'm thinking about running over Eclipse with a caddy ) so i'm taking this lot. I've just began working on it.

This post has been edited by lord fido on Monday, Jul 31 2006, 23:02

[Mark]

Pic 2..isn't pic 2. It's a .zip of a clover.

[Cerbera]

Fido, this is the Lot Requests topic. You can ask for a lot, but you can't just storm and and say "This bit is mine now"!

Cran, I guess you'd just trace the shape using a graphics program which supports layers. I think it should keep the current colour-coding and text because it's a map of lot ownership, not a radar map of what's actually there.

[lord fido]

[ ] Sorry, didn't mean to be like that. I've never done this before. [/ ]

QUOTE

Hello, Could I rent lot: illcom_c2_r9?

So lets start again:

Hello.

Could I rent lot:

illcom_c3_r1?

[locO G]

This topic is getting out of hand!
We need "ONE" map which shows everything!
Allocation, theme and .IDE number/name.

Filling up illcom is the easy part... (ha ha ha)!
No it's not!
When we move over to the 'Northern Islands', it's going to have to change!

We all need to get a handle on the bigger picture.
Or... leave it all to the likes of Gforce/ illspirit/ et al.
That's not on!

I could go on...
I won't It's too late.

This post has been edited by locO G on Wednesday, Aug 2 2006, 01:35

[AleXXX]

lord fido,
I think, no.
Your max skills are insufficiently developed. I don't see application of modifiers in your model. Study 3dsmax and then request lot.
P.S. I've taken an old computer (3ds max doesn't work) from my friend. But at once after the salary in the end of August I'll buy new middle-end PC!

[steve-m]

QUOTE (locO G @ Aug 2 2006, 03:27)

This topic is getting out of hand! We need "ONE" map which shows everything! Allocation, theme and .IDE number/name.

I think once the Nothern islands are finished, we could export a SVG map directly from Max. It could include all the necessary information, and would be easily editable (since it's a text file). And it could be interactive, i.e. provide links to the release topic of certain lots. We would also be able to automatically generate it from a lot database in the future.

[mickarrow]

QUOTE

We would also be able to automatically generate it from a lot database in the future.

Does that mean you're working on the site again??

[steve-m]

Hehe, no, just mentioned it as possibility. And notice how it says "future"?

[Cran.]

Sounds good to me. How long do you think it would take to get up and working? Be good to get the north islands up soon ready for requests.

[Cerbera]

SVG is too complicated for us to work with. Also, it is an XML based language which only the most cutting edge versions browsers like Firefox and Opera have any support for. It's not a sensible format for a hobbyist project to coordinate itself from. We would be dependant on someone exporting everything from Max or learning the elements of SVG in order for updates to be made.

I'd suggest simply using an HTML image map. JPEG or PNG images are easy for people to work with and HTML is a well known and simple format. The HTML image map would display lots, would be clickable and support for it is ubiquitous.

Each lot would be a link to its development or release topic. For lots without their own topic, we could create a topic where each post gives the details for one lot and link to that specific post. The author(s) of each lot could maintain the first post of their topic(s), or their post(s) within the catalogue topic. Alternatively, a couple of dedicated MI contributors could create and maintain a catalogue topic for all the lots in MI.

Keeping the MI data on the forum instead of locked up in an esoteric format like SVG would be much more practical for a hobbyist project like ours, imho. With a catalogue topic we wouldn't need to use a fancy format for the lot image; it's just a quesion of how to structure it and who would maintain it.

This post has been edited by Cerbera on Thursday, Aug 3 2006, 12:13

[steve-m]

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 3 2006, 14:10)

SVG is too complicated for us to work with. Also, it is an XML based language which only the most cutting edge versions browsers like Firefox and Opera have any support for.  It's not a sensible format for a hobbyist project to coordinate itself from. We would be dependant on someone exporting everything from Max or learning the elements of SVG in order for updates to be made.

So what? Afraid of learning something new? Browser support is no argument either, since people using older browsers (for reasons only they know) or IE can always use a plugin. And who said we can't still provide a screenshot/render of it as fallback? Creating the lot outlines from the 3D map would only have to be done once, and changing a few captions and colors in an outdated file should be obvious, you don't need to understand the format for that. Updating an SVG file would certainly be faster and easier than an image file, especially those crappy ones we use now, and if we are able to generate it automatically averytime a lot status changes, there'd be no work at all. The only thing esoteric here is you, Cerb.

[mickarrow]

QUOTE

Afraid of learning something new?

Actually, yeah...terrified More problems, less time.


BUT, if the person in charge knows how to handle it, then all that the rest of us have to do is look at it (plug-in required or not). For the makers of MI, I'm sure downloading a plug-in isn't a bridge too far.

And if you're really worried, you can make jpg's, so we'd have both...everybody happy

Sooo, who's gonna make this when the time is there.... Steve?

This post has been edited by mickarrow on Thursday, Aug 3 2006, 15:47

[Cerbera]

QUOTE (steve-m @ Aug 3 2006, 15:30)

Afraid of learning something new? [...] The only thing esoteric here is you, Cerb.

There's no need to get personal, Steve. This isn't about you or me, this is about finding a better way to coordinate the information related to lot ownership.

QUOTE (steve-m @ Aug 3 2006, 15:30)

Browser support is no argument either, since people using older browsers (for reasons only they know) or IE can always use a plugin.

Requiring people to download a plugin just to view the lot map isn't practical. Remember that most MI contributors are young people who will often be at school or university, or maybe at a library or an internet cafe. These places will often restrict what browsers can be used and prevent plugins from being installed.

Using SVG alone would mean people won't be able to view the lot map when at these places.

QUOTE (steve-m @ Aug 3 2006, 15:30)

And who said we can't still provide a screenshot/render of it as fallback?

It is essential that we have a JPEG (possible HTML+JPEG) fallback so everyone has easy access to the lot list. However, if we are still going to use a normal image why create more work by having an SVG version as well? This is a hobbyist project and I'm sure we are all aware of how difficult it can be to find the time and motivation for doing chores like this.

QUOTE (steve-m @ Aug 3 2006, 15:30)

Creating the lot outlines from the 3D map would only have to be done once, and changing a few captions and colors in an outdated file should be obvious, you don't need to understand the format for that. Updating an SVG file would certainly be faster and easier than an image file, especially those crappy ones we use now, and if we are able to generate it automatically averytime a lot status changes, there'd be no work at all.

Data doesn't come from thin air. There will always be some work in updating the lot map, regardless of what format it is in. In an automated system, it would mean updating the data the image is generated from. And then there's the setup time it would take:

• designing a new database for lot details;
• finding a host and setting up this database;
• researching the code which would be required;
• researching the SVG format to understand exactly what the output would need to be;
• writing alpha code to test feasibility;
• testing, debugging and improving the code until it is stable;
• creating a secure frontend so the data can be easily altered by authorised MI members;
• deciding who the authorised people would be and who would be responsible for ensuring the accuracy of the data in the database;
• gathering all the current lot details from the image, topics and released lots.

That's a huge amount of work right there. Will you do this to demonstrate the feasibility of dynamically generating an SVG image with an HTML+JPEG fallback? I don't see anyone else with the desire (and expertise) to try.

The ongoing maintenance and updating of this list will last as long as MI does; which will probably be several years yet. A database-driven system definitely has some long-term merits over the current topic-based system. Setting up a database, building a frontend and writing image generation code is a very big undertaking, though.

This post has been edited by Cerbera on Friday, Aug 4 2006, 12:58

[illspirit]

But, umm, if someone's on a computer that won't allow them to install plugins for whatever reason, I doubt they'll be doing much modding, let alone installing or playing MI?

And there's no need to research SVG or write code for it. There's already tons of SVG/jpg modules for *nix and PHP, to be sure. Hell, most Linux desktops use SVG for icons and stuff natively...

[Cerbera]

QUOTE (illspirit @ Aug 4 2006, 13:59)

But, umm, if someone's on a computer that won't allow them to install plugins for whatever reason, I doubt they'll be doing much modding, let alone installing or playing MI?

They can be discussing ideas, keeping track of the project's development and posting sketches from these restricted machines without installing exta software when a JPEG image or an HTML+JPEG page is used.

For example, when I only had computer access from my local library I wouldn't have been able to install an SVG plugin into their machines. If the lot map had required SVG, I couldn't have coordinated with other contributors as I wouldn't have seen where things were going. I was still able to work on designing, brainstorming and reviewing stuff for the MI project from the library because the lot map was in a very widely supported format (JPEG).

We need a JPEG version for when other contributors end up in situations like this, even if it's just a fallback.

This post has been edited by Cerbera on Friday, Aug 4 2006, 14:15

[steve-m]

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 4 2006, 14:37)

Using SVG alone would mean people won't be able to view the lot map when at these places. [...] However, if we are still going to use a normal image why create more work by having an SVG version as well?

I never said we would use SVG alone. Of course we could have a JPEG/PNG map where people could click on to get to the SVG map, or try to get automatic fallback working. And it wouldn't necessarily be more work, since as illy mentioned there are tons of modules for linux which would allow rendering the SVG automatically to a more common format.

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 4 2006, 14:37)

•designing a new database for lot details; •finding a host and setting up this database; •creating a secure frontend so the data can be easily altered by authorised MI members; •deciding who the authorised people would be and who would be responsible for ensuring the accuracy of the data in the database;

I was working on a MI website ages ago, most of this is already done. As I said, it would be something to consider in the future. ATM it would be enough to have an easily editable text format.

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 4 2006, 14:37)

•researching the code which would be required; •researching the SVG format to understand exactly what the output would need to be; •writing alpha code to test feasibility; •testing, debugging and improving the code until it is stable;

Oh please.

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 4 2006, 14:37)

•gathering all the current lot details from the image, topics and released lots.

Yes, that would be some work. But it's the same if we were to make a new image-only map.

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Aug 4 2006, 14:37)

Will you do this to demonstrate the feasibility of dynamically generating an SVG image with an HTML+JPEG fallback?

If I have to...

edit: How's this for a very first try?
http://steve-m.com/mi.svg