[Knife]

For a trial we could 'steal' the GTA III subway and modify it to fit our needs.

How hard is it to convert lots. It would be very useful if someone could convert DK Enterprises (one object) for my missions because everythings a bit messy at the mo.

[steve-m]

QUOTE (JasonB @ Aug 21 2005, 05:31)

Another problem I just thought of regarding 2 trains, how do we keep the monorail train off of the subway track and vice versa. In SA there is the Brown Streak train and the freight train, perhaps it is possible to confine one of these trains to one track.

You forgot the SF tram! So it must be possible to attach special vehicles to certain train tracks.

Yea, a subway might be the best solution, since it wouldn't conflict with any lots. Also a overhead train/monorail could be added later, since we'll mainly have low buildings anyway.

@Knife: As for lot conversion, dunno, might be best to import everything we have so far into Max, fix any bugs and do some optimizing, then prelight everything with the same settings as illnorth, and export everything again, properly grouped by area (not a separate ide/ipl for each lot), and reassign new ID#s. Also, txd files need reorganization, with help of txdp we can now put all default textures into an extra txd archive, so we don't have duplicates and waste of space/ressources anymore.

Oh, and a another question, what is the highest ID# used by the generic stuff in a cleaned SA map, how many ID#s will we need for illcom/illsub, and at which ID# shall the illnorth objects start?

[JasonB]

Silly me, how could I forget the SF Tram, that's what the other train.dat would be for (unless I am totally mistaken). So we can easily have 2 train tracks running at the same time, however the tram is not enterable, and only ever consists of 1 or 2 carriages at the most. Hopefully none of this is hardcoded. I'd imagine that getting it to be enterable shouldn't be overly difficult.

As for subway entrances, I recommend using 2 of my lots, illcom_c5_r3/illcom_c6_r4/illcom_c7_r4 (all of these would make a good spot) and illcom_c6_r10. c5_r3/c6_r4/c7_r4 would be good as it is right in the city centre, a place where people really need to get to/away from. c5_r3 is a little crowded so I could make some room near the museum or something.
c6_r10 would also be ideal, as you have quite a large amount of medium density buildings, such as NRon, Massivesoft and all of Little Tokyo (which i hope will be finished soon), and my upgrades to pacific bay would also create alot of eJobs, and people would need to get there.
Again, I would like to reitterate my eagerness for the subway, and if it is to go ahead, I would like the opportunity to build it.

[AleXXX]

About my lot...
I shall let out it when to appear enough of tools for change SA and will leave illcom for SA. For VC I shall not let out!
Now I am engaged modelling of different buildings then to create LARGE lot.

[Cran.]

Sorry to bump, but I have an idea on the train thing-o. Instead of either having a overhead train or a underground one, why not have it both ways! Think about it, and parts of town (Such as downtown etc.) the train could be an overhead train, and then when the train goes over to illres it could all go into a tunnel underground and it could be a underground train! Think about it.

Don't mind my grammar, it's that time of the night.

[Mark]

Well one way or another, the 2 train lines must at least meet somewhere. I dunno about in other countries, but in the UK, the underground and overground trains fit around each other, some stations are pure overground in London, some are pure underground, but a lot of them are both (Mainly the big ones like London Victoria, London Waterloo, London Bridge etc etc). So We COULD have a large station lot somewhere north on illcom, with trains leading overground about the city (maybe above the roads to cause less disruption, lots of overground trains in London almost have a mono-rail feel about em), on the ground round illres and illurb, and an underground part attached to this station for an underground system for illcom, with loads of other stations everywhere. Seems a bit more realistic than having an over and underground train doing the same thing. - GTAuron

[Knife]

If it's overground it needs to fit properly and not look like it's been put in late because otherwise it will stick out like an old man with a group of chrildren (I had to compair it with something). I am currently with the underground idea.

[steve-m]

Best would be to build the tracks on the empty islands, before they are released, so we can prelight it properly (with shadows from tracks) and people would know where high buildings aren't possible. But that won't happen I guess...

[Cran.]

QUOTE (GTAuron @ Sep 9 2005, 02:23)

Well one way or another, the 2 train lines must at least meet somewhere. I dunno about in other countries, but in the UK, the underground and overground trains fit around each other, some stations are pure overground in London, some are pure underground, but a lot of them are both (Mainly the big ones like London Victoria, London Waterloo, London Bridge etc etc). So We COULD have a large station lot somewhere north on illcom, with trains leading overground about the city (maybe above the roads to cause less disruption, lots of overground trains in London almost have a mono-rail feel about em), on the ground round illres and illurb, and an underground part attached to this station for an underground system for illcom, with loads of other stations everywhere. Seems a bit more realistic than having an over and underground train doing the same thing. - GTAuron

That's what I meant to say, I was in one of those late night things, you understand

[JasonB]

I am still heavily in favor of 2 train tracks, one over-head (may go down on the ground in low density areas) track which goes around all of Myriad with stops in convenient places.

The second track is a subway line, which goes to the high density inner city areas, such as illcom, my island and perhaps Necrosis if necessary. The purpose of this track is to better accomdate travel through heavily congested inner city areas, stopping in places where people need to get to, but the main line doesn't stop at.

For example you have the monorail (or whatever) stop in northern illcom, but not southern illcom, people will need a better way of getting there, and the subway connects these areas. That is just an example, and it would be logical for the monorail to stop in north and south illcom.

But the subway would not goto low density, sub-urban areas, as it would be redundant.

Sydney, has a system similar to this, there are the main train lines which go into Sydney, and then there is the ultra overpriced monorail line, which goes to places the main train doesn't, which would be convenient if it weren't so expensive.

That way you have overground and underground, and they are not redundant.

[steve-m]

A subway can always be added later, but for a normal train track (over-/underground mix) on the northern islands, you should get in contact with illy asap for some planning, he's almost convinced to model it.

[JasonB]

I agree that an over-head track that encompasses all of Myriad is of greater importance than an inner-city subway and I think that the train project should become a top-priority for Myriad as it's going to be difficult enough planning it for illcom, we should definately construct the tracks on the northern islands before they are open to the public for lot construction.
I am willing to assist in any way I can with the planning and modelling of the train line/s as this is an idea that I would think would give Myriad a lot of class.

[Gforce]

i agree with the trains on the north island taking priority too.

here are some of my thoughts and idea's on the trains...

i feel that illcom could have an underground system given that there are too many released lots to add an overground railway, with an underground rail system you could also make it a loading interior this would negate any need to define a tunnel system in the water stuff, along with the ability to have a fairly hi poly train\s and underground station's, on some empty lots, you could make the adjoining overland rail network meet near the coast on illcom_c3_r1. on the north west of illcom.

i'm not sure but the san fierro rail network appears to be similar in in the way it works to the airtrain system in VC where the planes take off and land in a set pattern and the airship goes round the downtown area, the only difference being that the train in SF has extra's in the dff and the train sometimes stops or has 1 or 2 carriages, but you can never stop it or get into it, although you can stand on the roof, this would mean you have no control over it and using this in myriad SA could be purely on a decorative purpose.

the other train line however uses 2 different trains and is controlable from defined points on the map. i'm not sure if the spawning of the 2 types of train is random or preset.

if the spawning is preset, with some clever station design along with some tricky path creation the train path could be used for a monrail and any other type of train.
you could have a train arrive at a station as a goods train at one platform and spawn into a monrail at another platform on a higher level on the same path, do a complete circuit of one island and as it arrives back in the station it started at, spawn into an out-going different train entirely going to the next island from another platform albeit at a lower or higher level .

we only seem to have the choice of only 2 trains on one track path and the other train would have to spawn after the player exits the existing train.
you would only be able to completely navigate round the map in one type of train without stopping if the track continued on the same path and did a circuit to wherever and came back in the loop to the same station, i don't know if there is a limit on the size of the train path loop or how many spawn points you could use, but you could get both types of train to go around all island's if the limit is endless, using what would appear to be 2 different train lines.

i have no idea if anyone will understand any of this.

This post has been edited by Gforce on Saturday, Sep 10 2005, 02:18

[JasonB]

QUOTE

i feel that illcom could have an underground system given that there are too many released lots to add an overground railway, with an underground rail system you could also make it a loading interior this would negate any need to define a tunnel system in the water stuff, along with the ability to have a fairly hi poly train\s and underground station's, on some empty lots, you could make the adjoining overland rail network meet near the coast on illcom_c3_r1. on the north west of illcom.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. If I'm right, you think we should either:
*Not have an over-ground track on illcom and have the train line remain underground, but near the north coast of illcom have it pop-up so it is above ground and then go over to the northern islands.
OR
*Have a subway system for illcom, no over-ground tracks for illcom and have a station for the over and underground trains near the northern coasts so that monorail passengers get off and hop on the subway.

Or I could be completely wrong. But I believe having an overground track on illcom is compeltely possible, so long as we keep it away from the centre of the island. We could simply have the track run along the east side of illcom on the 4-lane road and have stops at the north and south ends of illcom. And then the subway comes in and gives people convenient access to the inner areas of illcom and other areas which I have previously outlined.

The tracks and trains assigned to them is still a bit iffy. There are two train.dat files (named train.dat and train2.dat) which contain co-ordinates, more than likely for the path that the main train line follows and the SF tram line. Hopefully we can do something tricky to make the tram enterable and go a bit faster (that thing is slow as hell) and use that for the subway, and use the main train line for the above-ground line. If we decide to go with the monorail we can either try and remove the freight train or remodel it into a monorail train, and have 2 different monorail trains on the same line. Or if we just want a standard train line we could just leave it as is.

[Cerbera]

I've always thought that if Myriad had a railway, it would run between all the islands at the same level with very shallow slopes, like a real railway. Some parts would need embankments or flyovers, some would be in cuttings or tunnels depending on the local geography. By running around all the islands, there would not need to be any really sharp corners or steep slopes because it could avoid any parts of the islands which were too built up. There would be no need to try and squeeze a railway into a tiny space with stupidly steep hills and sharp corners like Portland in GTA3 did.

This would provide a means of transportation between the islands without driving, flying, sailing or swimming. Stations would be quite far apart (probably one per sector, making four in total) so you could get a decent speed up between each station. It would cross water, allowing some lucky modellers the chance to make imaginative bridge designs. It could use a tunnel to get through the Black Mesa sector...a secret tunnel network inside the mountain could exit into the side of the railway tunnel perhaps. Embankments, flyovers and other urban architecture would carry it across the illurb sector while Necrosis island could have really industrial architecture, a bit like the sidings and docks in San Fierro.

I offered to assist with designing the railway system when it was first seriously proposed about a year ago and my offer still stands. If we make a decent railway above ground, there will be no need for a problematic underground system and there's the sewer system if people want some subterrainean entertainment anyway.

[AleXXX]

Also it is possible to make the underground (while is free LOTs)...

[Knife]

We have thigs underground on lots but things can still go lower so a railway could go under an underground car park.

[OG_GhostDog]

The download link on the first page doesn`t work, pls help me get this islands. I`d really appreciate it. I lost my old hard-disk, got a new one... don`t almost have any mods.... pls help me guys

EDIT: Sorry, found it

This post has been edited by OG_GhostDog on Saturday, Jan 14 2006, 09:02

[Cran.]

In future, don't bump old topics

[Knife]

I don't know why the download isn't working. The MI site is working so it must have been taken down