[GhostWryter]

So it is about GENRE.

The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy.

That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game.

Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO.

Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES

[theworldfamous]

QUOTE

What is interesting is if R* really wanted to "go there" with the GTA franchise they could have done so already. We have the technology to depict limbs being blown off (Soldier of Fortune II) and other visceral, horrific things... Like rape, sodomy, etc... But there comes a point where even they know they can go too far and it would hurt sales.

Interesting point you make. People in this topic, while they are somewhat right, make ultra violence out to be some kind of new, exciting frontier.. but it's not that new. It's not a technical barrier either. We've had the ability to blow off limbs and have realistic gut-physics for ages.. and during the 90s there was a time when games appeared to be heading in that direction (GTA 1 was late to the party), but ultimately they didn't. So it's not like rockstar only now has the ability to show the violence in fine detail, and they only need to use it... it's like they have had it for a long time but chose NOT to use it. Why did they make that creative decision? Simply because it's what's called a creative dead-end. You wind up competing with yourself, every new installment would have to top the last one in violence, misogyny and darkness until you wind up with a product that's not much else than that..

It's not exciting, new territory to explore either, cause movies, books, art and real life all went there before and ultimately it's not a satisfying direction to go in. And on screen violence just isn't that shocking anymore. That went out with the appearance of CGI. Early horror was shocking (at that time) cause the filmmakers had to come up with inventive ways to fake the violence ("okay, so you scream really loudly and I'll throw this bucket of pig's blood at you.. ready? action!") .. now that you can just model it out in glorious 3d it becomes kind of empty and meaningless to do it.

Like that airport level in MW2.. I kind of got what they were trying to do there, what statement they were trying to make.. and I kind of respected that. But in the larger context of the game and what CoD the series represents it just felt silly, heavy handed, childish and almost comical sidestep.. not the 'intelligent reflection on the nature of violence' I guess they wanted it to be when next level you're storming the white house..

So like I said before.. without context, a lot of violence would still be meaningless and boring.. in the right context, just slapping someone can be the most shocking thing ever.

[neo92boi]

QUOTE (GhostWryter @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 07:59)

So it is about GENRE. The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy. That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game. Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO. Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES

Is it too much to ask for both... I keep saying this. You guys simply are afraid of implementing a more realistic tone
of brutality...You could have the crazy high tech weaponry, and fancy cars and suits and mansions with prostitutes and crazy car chases. Silly quirps from the police and peds. Thats all fine and dandy but what if you could feel the death as you lay waste to the city. Like literally feel like, wow that guy's really gone I just offed him....hardcore...f*cking hardcore Literally hearing him scuffle and moan as you spray him down with bullets, and hear gut wrenching moans and cracks and realistic blood spray on your car as you mow down peds on the side walk...

You know peanut butter does go great with jelly...

[jamieleng]

QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 08:41)

QUOTE (GhostWryter @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 07:59) So it is about GENRE. The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy. That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game. Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO. Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES Is it too much to ask for both...

Is it too much to ask for neither. None of that sounds like the GTA I know & love.

[Linki]

Don't worry, I'm down with you neoboi. I hate it how crowds don't react horrifically to my horrific acts.

[neo92boi]

QUOTE (jamieleng @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 09:19)

QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 08:41) QUOTE (GhostWryter @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 07:59) So it is about GENRE. The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy. That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game. Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO. Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES Is it too much to ask for both... Is it too much to ask for neither. None of that sounds like the GTA I know & love.

Please let me know what game you were playing then my good sir ...

And tnx ^

[jamieleng]

QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 09:31)

QUOTE (jamieleng @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 09:19) QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 08:41) QUOTE (GhostWryter @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 07:59) So it is about GENRE. The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy. That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game. Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO. Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES Is it too much to ask for both... Is it too much to ask for neither. None of that sounds like the GTA I know & love. Please let me know what game you were playing then my good sir ... And tnx ^

Oops, I was thinking of Nintendogs.

[neo92boi]

QUOTE (jamieleng @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 10:10)

QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 09:31) QUOTE (jamieleng @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 09:19) QUOTE (neo92boi @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 08:41) QUOTE (GhostWryter @ Thursday, Sep 13 2012, 07:59) So it is about GENRE. The desire to see GTA Games include Horror/Gore to the existing Action/Crime/Comedy. That just won't work. That's like changing the Soul of the game. Grand Theft Auto = dark bone crushing torture and peeling off skin and NPC raping ? NO. Grand Theft Auto = Scarface style with hi tech weapons and fancy cars hilarious dialogues ? YES Is it too much to ask for both... Is it too much to ask for neither. None of that sounds like the GTA I know & love. Please let me know what game you were playing then my good sir ... And tnx ^ Oops, I was thinking of Nintendogs.

Must of ...

[John The Grudge]

I thought that GTA IV was a little melodramatic at times. If you take The Sopranos as an example, that's the perfect balance of drama and levity. To be fair GTA IV was bang on for the most part but I hope GTA V doesn't try as hard to be dramatic.

[jamieleng]

@Neo92boi

"Say hello to my little friend!" That cheered me up no end.

I wonder if the extra gore, animals, nudity (TLAD only exception) other things in MP3 & RDR were purposely left out of GTA IV, because it was a GTA game. I'd hate to think R* ever held back to actually avoid too much controversy. I guess we'll find out when V hits us like a crowbar to the jaw.

[GTALegacy]

Everybody has posted some really good and thought-provoking replies

@neo92boi

I respect your opinion, and I thank you for starting this thread...

But I still disagree with your assumption GTA needs the kind of visceral "horror" you want because like theworldfamous said, it's not as new, or exciting as you think and is NOT the game changer R* needs to take this (or any game) to the next level... Whatever that may be.

Everybody gets a different kind of "rush" out of GTA.

The rush I get is the intellectual stimulation of how to tackle some of the missions a.k.a. strategic thinking.

For example, there is one mission where Francis wants you to take out the drug dealer who is holed up in the projects. The general layout means you have to fight your way up three flights of stairs filled with gang bangers until you finally reach the guy. This is also a mission where you can either spare him, or let him live and encounter him later on in the game if you want to.

Since I have played the game multiple times through before and knowing I just wanted to kill the guy (and not get the random encounter) I approached the mission differently than I had in the past. The target is on an exposed, third floor walkway, so I decided to just snipe him from a distance and avoid having to wade through all his thugs. So, the first thing I did was look at the tall buildings opposite the housing complex... And low and behold R* conveniently put a four story crane in the alley behind them. So, I just climbed the crane, went out onto the boom and used my sniper rifle. Easy peasy.

The point is the "rush" I got from that particular mission was because I "beat" the system so-to-speak.

I accomplished the task, but I did it in a much more efficient and "professional" manner given how real hitman might tackle the job.

The other intellectual stimulation GTA has given me is whenever I am walking, or driving in the real world and I see the real life cars the ones in the game are based on. I think, "Hey, that's the Fetzer!" and what is really cool is if it is the exact model the game has e.g. convertible, paint scheme, etc.

So, like I said, everybody gets something different from these type of games, but my larger point is I (personally) don't need excessive gore or horrific things to enjoy GTA. I just want as much freedom to tackle missions and other objectives MY WAY because that is the "rush" I get from games like GTA, Just Cause 2, Saints Row series, etc.

Shifting gears slightly, others have commented on how going on rampages in GTA IV was almost frowned upon (in game) as well as how a lot of players decided to play the game more conservatively before and after the main story line. I cited a lot of that might have had to do with players maturing (chronological age), but others said they didn't find it as fun simply because Niko wasn't a great protag to actually run around and do those wild rampages with.

I think this is probably because Niko is the embodiment of the classic Sociopath... At least, the stoic stereotype found in most mainstream media.

Niko is "the ice cold killer", "cool as ice", and "so f*cking calm" quoting Vlad in the game. That is what real sociopaths are like -- They don't freak out in life or death situations, or show any kind of emotion in situations where most people would be either weeping or screaming.

So, R* may have nailed what a sociopath is, but from an entertainment POV this doesn't provide for a very engaging, or interesting character to spend 40-90 hours with.

So, this begs the question:

If Niko were more like your standard video game characters who spouts one-liners after every kill would that have made him more likable?

I think this is directly related to our discussion because I think @neo92boi might be confusing wanting a better character to play the game with who makes going on rampages fun with R* needing to add more visceral violence and gore to make those rampages (and the larger game) fun again?

[GTALegacy]

Sorry to bump this up, but I've been thinking about some of the things that might allow games to be taken to the "next level" and bridge the gap between video game and reality as well as what makes some games more memorable than others right now.

In my opinion, I think games where the player makes choices that have real and lasting effects on the outcome (story line) are far more engaging because this mimics real life a lot more than if developers find new ways to horrify, or thrill us with things like severed limbs and other acts of visceral brutality. We make choices everyday that can sometimes have a lasting impact for the rest of our natural lives.

This brings me to the second part of my argument and that is it's not just players being able to influence the outcome of a game, but the choices players are forced to make should not be easy ones because of the consequences they entail.

GTA IV did this very well with the two alternate endings regarding either Roman, or Kate's death.

However, I think what games need to do is take this one step further and that is make players even more morally ambiguous and not so black and white in a lot of respects.

For example, look at the characters of Walter White ("Breaking Bad"), and Nancy Botwin ("Weeds").

They turned to crime not because they are career criminals, were "born bad", or because they get a thrill out of beating the system. They became criminals because they had no choice. They turned to crime out of sheer necessity. Either to save their own lives and/or the well-being of their family. I think characters like this are fare more relatable and far more real than your stereotypical hitman, merc, or even ex-soldier adrenaline junkie types most games feature as the protagonist. These characters ask the vary basic question of "What would YOU do if you were put in their impossible situations?" I feel engaing players on a personal level like this is far more effective than any amount of excessive violence, or other things that could be added to help bridge the gap between current video games and real life given current and possibly future technology.

In other words, it's HOW you engage the audience so they connect with the story and not the WAY (technology) the story is told, IMO.

[36Chambers]

I really hope the gore effects is similar to MP3. And I would really appreciate it if the story is as gritty and emotional as GTA IV, the story of that game is what really sticks with me to this day.