[Mockage]

Best programming languages for a TOTAL newbie? I've been using Small Basic and caught the gist of general programming and such pretty quick. Now I think I'm ready to move onto other languages..! Just not sure which ones.

Compiler and editor suggestions would help too

This post has been edited by Mockage on Thursday, Apr 12 2012, 22:34

[nightwalker83]

What about VB.NET?

[K^2]

If you actually want to learn programming, C. If you want to learn to code a bit for specific task, what do you want to do?

[Mockage]

Sorry about being a bit vague there.

I want to make something like rainmeter. Basically like a customization tool for your PC (specifically for windows) After looking through the site it seems that the program is coded by C++ and C#. I downloaded a tutorial from the internet that covers the whole gist of C++ and thought about picking that as my 1st serious language to learn, considering it's carelessly flaunted around the internet as being a great beginner language. I have no clue about IDE's though, which is a problem.

Also, whats the difference between a scripting language and a programming language?

[goin-god]

To be honest, the differences are meaningless. There really is none.

For example making CLEO mods or SCM for GTA would be scripting.
Creating a launcher for the game that's stand alone would be programming.

Basicly when you script, you are programming within a program.

[K^2]

As a general rule, scripts are interpreted, and programs are compiled. But there are a lot of applications where the two are interchangeable.

Whether you want to learn C++ or C#, I'd still recommend starting with C. It helps to have some basic understanding of the language before you jump into object oriented programming, which is what both C++ and C# are all about.

[Mockage]

Thanks, I'll go with that route I guess.

Also, is Eclipse any good? And I have no clue about GUI Toolkits.

If it seems that I'm trying to get too ahead, then I apologize.

[K^2]

If you are considering learning C# at some point, you might want to consider learning Visual Studio. You can get Visual C++ Express for free. It can be used to compile C or C++ code. I also find Visual C++ to be less hassle for a lot of Windows-specific programming in C++. Especially if you want to use DirectX. It's a major pain to configure with some other compilers. Later, for C#/XNA programming, you would have to use Visual C#, which is very similar.

Otherwise, it doesn't really matter what IDE you use. I've never used Eclipse, so I have no idea. But there are a whole bunch of them out there. It's just matter of convenience, though. What actually matters is the compiler you are using. Most of 3rd party IDEs rely on MinGW compilers, which are Windows versions of GNU compilers. You would use gcc to compile C code, and g++ to compile C++ code. In principle, if you install MinGW, you don't even need an IDE. I rarely use one myself. You can compile and link from command line. There are multiple benefits of learning to do that, and for small projects it can actually be faster than setting up a project in an IDE.

[BnB]

Actually, before you start using DirectX, you certainly must have a some knowledge of Win32 programming. In my opinion before you get started with Win32 it's probably much easier to learn SFML. However, setting it up is a difficult process and it is mainly used by the users for creating simple 2D video games. I don't really know if SFML could help you with what you want to do, but it is easier to learn than Win32.

[Mockage]

Thanks for the help fellas. I decided to download Visual Studio and Visual Express through Dreamspark. I'm only programming for Windows anyway.

I never really looked into C# though, but I'm assuming it's an advanced version of C++?

[K^2]

QUOTE (Mockage @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 11:45)

I never really looked into C# though, but I'm assuming it's an advanced version of C++?

It isn't. It's an attempt at a more streamlined 3GL based on C++ and Java. It has a lot of similarities, and it's relatively easy to switch from C++ to C#, but going in reverse is more difficult.

From perspective of learning to program, C# is pretty useless. But because of all the streamlining and XNA, you don't need to be as skilled a programmer to make something functional. So that's why it's a question of what your goal is. If you want to learn to be as good a programmer as you can, or you want to get to a point where you can make a game as quickly as possible. Either way, you should start with C. But whether you continue with C++ or C# would depend on which path you chose.

[Mockage]

Thanks for clearing that up. I just read somewhere on C# was simple a more advanced version of C++. Looks like they were wrong.

Starting with C will definitely make the transition from going there to C++ much more easier I assume, so I'll think about starting there or going straight to C++. My head has lately been thinking about Java as well.

[Mockage]

Sorry for double post.

Just a question, how good is Debian for C/C++ programming?

[DeafMetal]

I would say Python is the easiest to pick up, but it's so simple that it makes it harder to adapt to other languages. I would really recommend Java; it's a full fledged language, but it's not incredibly cryptic nowadays (looking at you, C++). Once you learn the fundamentals of a programming language, learning other languages is like going from a car to a truck or motorcycle, etc.: it's different, but very similar.

Compiler-wise:
Java: Dr. Java
Python: PyScripter
C/C#/C++: Visual Studios 2010 (Express version is free)

This post has been edited by DeafMetal on Thursday, May 3 2012, 19:21

[OzzySM12]

C#, PHP, Java & C++ all share the same syntax so if you start off with C# rather than VB you'll find learning new languages less daunting.

I say this as I learned VB over a decade ago, and found it a big step to move onto an other language.

I think you'll probably make yourself a better programmer if you skip VB.

[H3NR1QU3]

As you were talking about C++ and C# all just ask this here:

Why is C++ so popular? Is it really a better programming language?

When I started a C++ project in Visual Studio it looked so... outdated, I don't know. While C# and VB.NET seem to me to be more "friendly" and updated languages. Why is that? Why developers prefer C++ even though it's (I guess) kind of outdated?

[nightwalker83]

QUOTE (H3NR1QU3 @ Saturday, Jun 16 2012, 10:58)

As you were talking about C++ and C# all just ask this here: Why is C++ so popular? Is it really a better programming language? When I started a C++ project in Visual Studio it looked so... outdated, I don't know. While C# and VB.NET seem to me to be more "friendly" and updated languages. Why is that? Why developers prefer C++ even though it's (I guess) kind of outdated?

I guess it can do more! Also, C++ is a lower level language compared to VB, C# which are high languages (more like English).

[The_Siggi]

@Bnb: Win32 is not required if you chose C# to deal with DirectX.

I agree with K^2, C is best for learning the basics and developing a fundamental understanding of programming structures. However, I only recomend C and C++ to people who really want to get involved in programming. And by saying involved, I mean approaching the whole thing with discipline and confidence. Because first advice I give you, and everyone would agree with me on that one, it will take lots of time. Only learning what you need is bollocks and nothing else.

I highly recommend C#, as it is userfriendly and very fluent. You're bound to the Windows enviorment but that should not represent any kind of obstacle.

@nightwalker83: I wouldn't consider C++ a low level language. C++ is just very complex, so it takes some time to master designing and writing your code.