[Skimask101]

I think this will be a great revival of the ol' AE86. Do you guys think it'l be a track beast? or be like the current "Looks before performance" Scion lineup? I think It'll be a peppy little car, similar to the Honda S2000 or a much slower 350Z.

The BRZ is also quite small. Here's a link of size comparisons to other cars.










SPECS (From Motortrend 2013 BRZ prototype review)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass,2-door coupe
ENGINE 2.0L/200-hp (est)/170-lb-ft (est) DOHC 16-valve flat-4
TRANSMISSION 6-speed manual,6-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT 2500 lb (mfr est)
WHEELBASE 93.5 in (est)
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 148.8 x 70.0 x 46.8 (est)
0-60 MPH 6.0 sec (MT est)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 25-27/30-32 mpg (est)
ENERGY CONS, CITY/HWY 125-135/105-112 kW-hrs/100 mi (est)
CO2 EMISSIONS 0.67-0.72 lb/mi (est)


There are rumors of a Turbo version that has under ~300 HP that Subaru will make but nothing has been confirmed. The GT300 version turbo'd.


Also: SUBARU BRZ GT300

[sivispacem]

I really wish that the final design for either had been a combination of both. Neither looks "right"- The FT86 has a much nicer basic body shape, but the details are too fiddly and some- strake lines, front lights- are vile. The BRZ gets the details right- front end in particular, and that stupid spoiler and chrome gills excepted, but the whole body proportions make it look very bloated.

[Senex Iunior]

I don't care what's under the hood or what the car "actually" is, Scion is for hipster fgts. Love the design, just not the idea that the FT-86 itself will be placed under a far inferior brand for the US.

Rant: the TMC I knew as a kid is dead. Katsuaki's/Akio's Toyota sickens me; Eiji made Toyota. Just like Americans, their cars have become fat and lazy- the best thing Toyota sells right now is the Tacoma/Hilux, a truck of all things. Currently, the company risks ending up like GM and Ford post-1990's because of the fact that their premier brand (i.e., Toyota) isn't diversified whatsoever: TRUCKS AND FWD CARS, F*CK YEAH!!!

[Tuff Luv Capo]

The world has enough C/D class sports cars. I thought this car was going to be a Z/STI/EVO competitor, now I see it is just another Genesis Coupe/TC/RSX/Cobalt SS

[Skimask101]

I agree with you 100% Tuff Luv. Although I think out of the C/D class of cars, this is definitely my favorite.

I wouldn't buy this car mainly because I want a Supra replacement. I want a car In the same class with the STI/EVO/Z.

Though I think we should see this as a step forward for Toyota because this is their first Toyota branded RWD sports car in 9 years.

The spoiler Subaru going with now is much more subtle and I like it. I think Subaru's is the best looking in my opinion.

[Guns N R0se]

I stopped being interested when they said it'd have a Scion badge. No one past the age of 16 with any sense at all wants to drive a Scion. Yes there are Toyota/Subaru versions but I guarantee you people will still call it a Scion.

[Garfield 2]

202g per km CO2.

Can't see this being successful here, in Ireland.

[Warlord.]

I see more Mazda in there than Toyota/Subaru/Scion tbh.

Toyota no longer designs cars in a way that you can tell its a Toyota by just looking at it.

Then again, most car manufacturers today don't really have a unique style.

Car doesn't look bad, but it sure as hell ain't no successor to the AE86.

[κενιη]

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Sunday, Dec 11 2011, 02:08)

The world has enough C/D class sports cars. I thought this car was going to be a Z/STI/EVO competitor, now I see it is just another Genesis Coupe/TC/RSX/Cobalt SS

I see some major faults in your car categories. I never saw the Z as an EVO or STI competitor. Yes, in video games it works wonderfully but at the end of the day we are comparing 4 door, 5 seater sedans (or wagon) against a front engined, RWD, NAV6 car. Its kind of like comparing the E63 AMG against the Viper. Sure, you got right around the same HP ratings but two totally different demographics. Whether you like to admit or acknowledge this or not, people buying an EVO or an STI have their reasons for wanting a 4 door, 5 seater sports car. Its not like they run in and say, "Well, this 370Z performs better/worse than those other two...so I am gonna get that." I can guarantee you that, 95 times out of 100, the guys shopping for EVOs or STIs are doing so because they want a sports car that can be used as a regular car. The Z just can't do that in this world with family loads of groceries, kids and baby seats, and stuff like more than one friend. A better car to throw in there is the Caliber and Neon SRT-4s. Maybe if the Silvia/240SX was still around, that would be a good car to throw in there...as well as the Miata.

On the same note, I never saw the Genesis as a tC/Cobalt SS/RSX level. It, again, is a front engined, RWD coupe. The only thing it has on the Z is the fact that its got a few small rear seats. Sure, you get roughly the same seating room in back as a Cobalt SS Coupe, RSX, or tC but at the end of the, the main competitors for it are the V6 (V8 maybe) Mustang, the V6 (maybe V8) Camaro, or the V6 (maybe V8) Challenger.

That being said, its going into the latter category with the Genesis Coupe, Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger.

[The General]

QUOTE (κενιη @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 12:21)

That being said, its going into the latter category with the Genesis Coupe, Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger.

No its not. The car is only slightly bigger then the Miata, this car is tiny compared to the mustang and genesis. This car is going to compete against the Miata, Civic Si and other cars in that class.

[Lurch]

Still quite a bit bigger than a Miata. Never knew the Genesis was that much of a porker though. It's as big as my 5 series.

[κενιη]

QUOTE (Lurch @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 17:05)

Still quite a bit bigger than a Miata. Never knew the Genesis was that much of a porker though. It's as big as my 5 series.

Yeah...I will believe it when I see it. The car is starting out at $25k right? Seems right up the pony car's ally.

[Tuff Luv Capo]

QUOTE (κενιη @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 12:21)

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Sunday, Dec 11 2011, 02:08) The world has enough C/D class sports cars. I thought this car was going to be a Z/STI/EVO competitor, now I see it is just another Genesis Coupe/TC/RSX/Cobalt SS I see some major faults in your car categories. I never saw the Z as an EVO or STI competitor. Yes, in video games it works wonderfully but at the end of the day we are comparing 4 door, 5 seater sedans (or wagon) against a front engined, RWD, NAV6 car. Its kind of like comparing the E63 AMG against the Viper. Sure, you got right around the same HP ratings but two totally different demographics. Whether you like to admit or acknowledge this or not, people buying an EVO or an STI have their reasons for wanting a 4 door, 5 seater sports car. Its not like they run in and say, "Well, this 370Z performs better/worse than those other two...so I am gonna get that." I can guarantee you that, 95 times out of 100, the guys shopping for EVOs or STIs are doing so because they want a sports car that can be used as a regular car. The Z just can't do that in this world with family loads of groceries, kids and baby seats, and stuff like more than one friend. A better car to throw in there is the Caliber and Neon SRT-4s. Maybe if the Silvia/240SX was still around, that would be a good car to throw in there...as well as the Miata. On the same note, I never saw the Genesis as a tC/Cobalt SS/RSX level. It, again, is a front engined, RWD coupe. The only thing it has on the Z is the fact that its got a few small rear seats. Sure, you get roughly the same seating room in back as a Cobalt SS Coupe, RSX, or tC but at the end of the, the main competitors for it are the V6 (V8 maybe) Mustang, the V6 (maybe V8) Camaro, or the V6 (maybe V8) Challenger. That being said, its going into the latter category with the Genesis Coupe, Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger.

So because people buy them for different reasons, they don't compete? You're missing the point entirely. If this car were an STI/EVO/Z competitor then instead of a four door or two seater to choose from, they'd have another coupe in the mix.

Also, because I'm confused by your logic, if an STI pulls up behind an M3 on a straightaway and fails to overtake, does he then after the race tell the M3 driver that he bought his car for different reasons therefore they were never competing?

BTW this doesn't just happen in video games, car manufacturers don't design their cars to beat final bosses in need for speed.

This post has been edited by Tuff Luv Capo on Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 23:08

[sivispacem]

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 23:52)

So because people buy them for different reasons, they don't compete? You're missing the point entirely. If this car were an STI/EVO/Z competitor then instead of a four door or two seater to choose from, they'd have another coupe in the mix.

...In a word, yes. How else do you separate different "kinds" of car?

[Tuff Luv Capo]

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 18:02)

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 23:52) So because people buy them for different reasons, they don't compete? You're missing the point entirely. If this car were an STI/EVO/Z competitor then instead of a four door or two seater to choose from, they'd have another coupe in the mix. ...In a word, yes. How else do you separate different "kinds" of car?

You guys are confusing sales with performance.

[Skimask101]

I think you guys are generalizing buyers and car enthusiasts a little too much. Some one might by an STI purely because they think it's cool and hear it's fast but other people may buy it because they want a rally bred car with all wheel drive for the winter. 370Z buyers will want different things as well but the majority of buyers in this price will want speed but this is not the topic at hand, the BRZ is.

I see the BRZ as a more affordable RWD sports car. It's not exactly a replacement for the AE86 but it is it's spiritual successor, in my opinion. Buyers may not want a FWD car or Hyundai, so they can get the FT-86 for around the same price, which is not bad.

[Tuff Luv Capo]

QUOTE (Skimask101 @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 18:42)

I think you guys are generalizing buyers and car enthusiasts a little too much. Some one might by an STI purely because they think it's cool and hear it's fast but other people may buy it because they want a rally bred car with all wheel drive for the winter. 370Z buyers will want different things as well but the majority of buyers in this price will want speed but this is not the topic at hand, the BRZ is. I see the BRZ as a more affordable RWD sports car. It's not exactly a replacement for the AE86 but it is it's spiritual successor, in my opinion. Buyers may not want a FWD car or Hyundai, so they can get the FT-86 for around the same price, which is not bad.

That's definitely true, there are hardly any RWD cars in that class, and the Genesis might be too much car/value for some. On the same token, the MX-5 might be (way too) feminine.

[Guns N R0se]

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Wednesday, Dec 14 2011, 00:07)

QUOTE (Skimask101 @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 18:42) I think you guys are generalizing buyers and car enthusiasts a little too much. Some one might by an STI purely because they think it's cool and hear it's fast but other people may buy it because they want a rally bred car with all wheel drive for the winter. 370Z buyers will want different things as well but the majority of buyers in this price will want speed but this is not the topic at hand, the BRZ is. I see the BRZ as a more affordable RWD sports car. It's not exactly a replacement for the AE86 but it is it's spiritual successor, in my opinion. Buyers may not want a FWD car or Hyundai, so they can get the FT-86 for around the same price, which is not bad. That's definitely true, there are hardly any RWD cars in that class, and the Genesis might be too much car/value for some. On the same token, the MX-5 might be (way too) feminine.

The S2000 also, but that is hard to come by and pretty pricey I think.

[Tuff Luv Capo]

QUOTE (Guns N R0se @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 19:22)

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Wednesday, Dec 14 2011, 00:07) QUOTE (Skimask101 @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 18:42) I think you guys are generalizing buyers and car enthusiasts a little too much. Some one might by an STI purely because they think it's cool and hear it's fast but other people may buy it because they want a rally bred car with all wheel drive for the winter. 370Z buyers will want different things as well but the majority of buyers in this price will want speed but this is not the topic at hand, the BRZ is. I see the BRZ as a more affordable RWD sports car. It's not exactly a replacement for the AE86 but it is it's spiritual successor, in my opinion. Buyers may not want a FWD car or Hyundai, so they can get the FT-86 for around the same price, which is not bad. That's definitely true, there are hardly any RWD cars in that class, and the Genesis might be too much car/value for some. On the same token, the MX-5 might be (way too) feminine. The S2000 also, but that is hard to come by and pretty pricey I think.

And for guys like me, impossible to fit in. Come to think of it, all RWD cars besides muscle cars nowadays are tiny. RX-8, MX-5, Solstice, Sky, S2000,

[The General]

QUOTE (κενιη @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 17:50)

QUOTE (Lurch @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 17:05) Still quite a bit bigger than a Miata. Never knew the Genesis was that much of a porker though. It's as big as my 5 series. Yeah...I will believe it when I see it. The car is starting out at $25k right? Seems right up the pony car's ally.

And the Miata is 2 grand cheaper, so at $23k. So is the Miata right up the pony car's alley?

Also, chances are the Miata is going to grow a bit more during the next redesign.