[CTM]

FEATURES OF THE NEW INSTALLER:
Ideally, we would like to have the new installer lay the foundations for future versions of LC - if we can get it right this time, it can be used as a template, with only the only changes for future versions being in the files it contains .

The current proposals for the v7 installer include:

• An Inno-Setup engine
• A manual/custom install option - you can select the folders that are copied during installation, and install single files (useful for those who forget to back-up before modding)
• Web installation as well as full installer download options
• A new HTML Readme - right click and Save Target As: Readme.html (so it can be included with the installer download package)
• An Internet Shortcut to the LC forum
• An option to install GTA3 audio from a hard-drive location as well as from the GTA3 CD - if GTA3 audio is not installed, then have the installer copy the 2 files from here into their correct locations instead of the default files already there (is this even possible?) <- Idea of copying those files on hold; see this post for a preferable solution
• Audio Blanker - installer option. This simply blanks out all unused VC audio (in your LC\Audio folder).
  Audio Folder Cleanup - this removes all of the unused VC files from the audio directory.
  A general tidy up of the LC directory - delete unused VC files, etc.
  The installer needs to remove the read-only attribute on ALL files in the LC folder. Note that all files copied from CDs are read only, and therefore the installer shouldn't clear the attributes until after the GTA3 audio has been copied over (if the user chooses to do so).
• The installer needs to run FinishInstall.bat (which will be placed in the root of the LC directory) and then delete it when it is finished. This file will be responsible for the deletion of VC's audio files from the AUDIO folder, a tidy up of the data\maps folder and changing the read-only attributes of all files in the LC folder.

NOTE - When installing the GTA3 audio, the installer shouldn't double the file extension of some of the files (see here -eg- police.mp3 becomes police.mp3.mp3, etc. - this should not happen).

Also, when copying the GTA3 audio over, the installer should only take the relevant files, nothing else (saves space).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--original post--
Work on Test 6 is well underway, and Craig wants a new installer for it.

The installer that I created for the Test 5 branch was an abomination, and I apologise for that. It was like a thin piece of string that bundled the individual installation steps together - it worked, but if one part of the bundle failed, the string snapped. That's not the way an installer should work; it's the first thing that a prospective end user will see, so it needs to be dependable.

I want to rewrite the entire thing from scratch for Test 6; hopefully I'll complete it in time. The interface will largely be the same, but it'll be vastly different behind the scenes.

The UI, however, should partly be the work of the community. I want to know what you want to see in the new installer - what should be changed, what should be left the same, and what could be added to make the installation a more enjoyable experience. Here is some stuff that I thought about while posting this thread:

• Get it working fully on Win98 and WinME. The old installer had some problems with decompressing the archive. This won't happen in Test 6.
• Pull out all of the stops to compress the installation archive as much as possible. In the last release (Test 5b), the archive was 102MB. That's a massive hassle to download if you're stuck on 56K, and I know at least one of the led-bys of this very forum is still on dialup. My aim is to get the archive compressed to around 80MB. Right now I'm using a highly-compressed 7-Zip archive; please post any known techniques that are better.
• Add the option to install GTA3 audio from the hard drive.

I really want to hear from you other guys too; after all, I'm making this for you, so your input is far more important. What else would you like to see in the new installer?

This post has been edited by SteaVor on Sunday, Aug 19 2007, 15:32

[Ben]

G'day again CTM - long time no see !

This is a good start, however, I'd also like to see a manual install option within the launcher interface - perhaps something like a custom install (so you can install only certain portions of LC, perhaps each folder (like audio, models, etc.)). That'd be really handy for people like me who forget to backup stuff occassionally before installing a mod . Otherwise, it sounds good - compressing further will be really good for those dial-up users (like me - well, only until March 1, then it's unlimited ADSL - woohoo !).

EDIT - I'm also putting together a list of detailed installation instructions. If you like, I can just PM them to you for feedback - let me know. Thanks.

This post has been edited by benisablink182fan on Thursday, Feb 9 2006, 07:52

[NathanHenry]

well as long as the Beta 2 test 6 can work perfectly I will be happy because both the Beta 2 test 5 and Beta 2 test 5b broke for me so that is why I am still using Beta 1.

So I will be happy if it just works thats all.

[Konstantinos]

Sounds great! Although I never had any trouble with installation (or download size). One thing you should include is the option to install the Official LC Trainer ModelingMan is working on.

BTW, if you're looking for new compression formats, I've heard some good things about WinUHA, although I dunno if its's better than 7-Zip.

[CTM]

QUOTE (benisablink182fan @ Feb 9 2006, 08:06)

EDIT - I'm also putting together a list of detailed installation instructions. If you like, I can just PM them to you for feedback - let me know. Thanks.

That would be brilliant! With Beta 5, I cobbled together the install prodecure from an old FAQ that hadn't been updated since Beta 1. We might have a wider range of tools/techniques available to us this time around.

QUOTE

One thing you should  include is the option to install the Official LC Trainer ModelingMan is working on. BTW, if you're looking for new compression formats, I've heard some good things about WinUHA, although I dunno if its's better than 7-Zip.

You're right, the trainer would make a great installation option The trainer itself looks really promising too.

Thanks for that link! I'm running a few tests with WinUHA - it looks like 7-Zip still gives the best compression (.7z 102MB, .uha 109MB). That's a shame, really, because it looks like 102MB is the smallest we're ever going to get.

[Ben]

Ok, I'll PM you what I've got in a sec.

With the trainer, it might already be included as part of the game (as in, it's installed by default as part of the game interface) - I'm not sure what Craig had planned for this exactly.

There was also talk of a manual install feature - I was going to comment on it in my first post, but I sort've covered it in the custom install option, and I don't know how it would work. I was thinking if it could be included as an option at the start - for example, window pops up -> would you like to manual or auto install? -> manual -> installer closes and you can extract from 7zip of something. I'm not really sure how it all works, but it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't possible. It's just something to consider to make manually installing easier in case some people still have problems.

The other thing I forgot was about the green bars that come up to tell you the status of the install process. I don't really know if you can fix it, but it'd be nice if you could get them to load in sync, and not in big clumps of ten.

That's about all I can think of at the moment - if I think of anything else I'll be sure to let you know .

EDIT - PM sent.

This post has been edited by benisablink182fan on Friday, Feb 10 2006, 06:29

[MegaVovaN]

Sorry if it's a spam, but 102 mb...150mb...200mb is no difference with today's hosting technologies
for 10 bux a month, 2 years ago I had 500mb space and 100gb bandwidth/month...now for 10 bux a month I have 12gb space and 500gb bw/month. And I'm not alone.

As for dial-up users, they should use download managers, these programs let you download gigabytes on dial-up without much trouble (other than long time to wait).

P.S. PM me if you want me to host any beta-related files

[Ben]

Dial-up will always continue to be a problem for downloads, no matter what it is. Take my current situation for example - 400MB a month! I could just change plans, but the ISP I'm with is the only one I can find that doesn't force you to pay by credit card, which I don't have. Browsing the net in general takes up about 300MB a month, coz I'm a pretty heavy user (that doesn't include downloads). It'd take me at least two, maybe three months to update LC, or I'd have to sacrifice some browsing. I think we owe it to everyone to make the download package as small as possible. There are, of course, other ways to get LC (a friend with broadband, etc.) - that won't be a problem for me from next month though .

@CTM - I'll be updating the readme for the public release of v6 (I'm waiting for Craig to send it to me), so I'll need some help on the finer installation details later . I'll let you know though.

[GTAThomas]

v1 had a torrent download, and it was only like 70mb, but download managers would be better, those torrents are really dumb and time wasting. also, nice to see this happening ctm, a working new installer! yay!

[Craig Kostelecky]

I will likely add a torrent to the new package when it's ready. It's defintely my preferred way to download big files.

[bloodyskies]

I remember reading in an old post of Demarest's that there was some magazine interest in LC.. would it be worth going back to whatever magazine it was to see if they'd be interested in putting LC on a cover disc once the new installer/release is ready?

[silver007]

Im with Bens request for a manual install.
Constainly with v5 i would have LC randomly exit without an error message, or my computer would complete restart. i do not know if this is an LC bug, or a windows faw... either way normaly its because the gta3.img isnt working because ive edited it.
it would be great if you could re-start up the installer and maunally select one file to re-install instead of the whole thing.

also the progress bars would be great if you could get them to work in sync, if that is possible, i know nothing about installers/programming except very simple C programming which im learning right now in college

[Ben]

@bloodyskies - That's a good idea. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but personally, I'd rather wait until the mod was final.

@silver - Yeah, I called it a manual install, but I'm not sure how it would work. The only thing I came up with was the custom install, which is what you're describing.

@CTM - Can you please PM me your email address and I'll send you the updated html readme to see if there's anything you'd like me to add regarding the installer .

[NathanHenry]

well I would like the installer if it was manual installment as in all you would need to do is take the files from the beta 2 test 6 rar or zip file an just insert them into the VC folder therefore replacing the VC stuff because it just seems that the installers are a big problem.

[Y_Less]

QUOTE (NathanHenry @ Feb 13 2006, 06:40)

sorry about this post my computer screwed up please erase this post.

Done.

About the installer. I think the best way to do it would be to either simply have a self-extracting zip/rar file (if you can do that with rar) and point it at your VC directory with keep folder structure on, all the files get put in the same place and it is a tried and tested method. Or, failing that, an archive file with a program which extracts it to the right place then you can install it or open the archive in another program.

[NathanHenry]

well I am just saying it would be easier to have a manual installer because it is just alot easier to drag and drop the files into the VC folder then having an installer extracting the files because the installer sometimes screws up.

[Ben]

Yes, you can create self-extracting winrar files.

There are two ways, depending on whether or not you have registered winrar:
1. When you select to Add files to the archive, make sure the Create SFX Archive box is ticked (option only available if you have registered winrar)

or
2. Add your files, and then go Tools -> Convert Archive To SFX. This is the way to go - there are so many options to choose from. For example, go to the SFX tab - I just left it as Add a new SFX module, and left it as Default.SFX. Click on Advanced SFX options. I didn't do anything in the General or Advanced tabs because I didn't understand any of it, but I left mode as Ask Before Overwrite (temp stuff all unticked, silent mode as display all). The text and icon tab is where you add the text for the window - GTA: Liberty City, and Installation instructions, and I added the app.ico from my LC folder as the icon (it's the default LC icon). The License tab is for anything about LC being freeware, blah blah blah - all that legal stuff which we've never worried about before ! And the Module tab stays unaltered - Default.SFX.

I'm not sure about the size of the installer, as compared to if it was done with 7-zip, but the manual/custom install is a built in option - right click and select Open With Winrar.

And the bars all flow in-sync.

And... it'd be a lot easier to create than an installer - it'll be way more reliable too, and it's neat (pretty basic, but it's fine by me). I think that most people don't care if it looks flashy or not - they only want it to work.

So that's how I made a sfx-rar.exe file - CTM, you might like to have a play around with it and see what else you can do.

About the only things it doesn't cover are adding a shortcut of LC (you might be able to do that, but I don't know how), or installing GTA3 audio - that'll have to be done manually I think, but that's not too much trouble (the instructions for that can be added to the installer window, such as:
If you have GTA3, you can install the cutscene audio and radio stations from your CD, or even a hard-drive location. If you choose to install from your CD, open up your audio folder and select and copy everything, and paste it in your audioLC folder. For installation from a hard-drive location, find your GTA3\audio folder and do the same thing blah blah blah...)

EDIT - I dunno. At least it's a guaranteed working solution for all. What does everyone else think?

This post has been edited by benisablink182fan on Tuesday, Feb 14 2006, 06:57

[GTAThomas]

QUOTE (Craig Kostelecky @ Feb 12 2006, 03:40)

I will likely add a torrent to the new package when it's ready. It's defintely my preferred way to download big files.

the only reason i was against the torrent is because those can be pesky and filled with viruses. i remember a few months ago my friend wanted to send me something so i had to use a bittorent. idk which one i used but the thing only downloaded at 4kbs and in the end the file got curropted for some reason. not to mention all the smut that came with it. i just have a bad past and am quite pissed off with my computer recently. ok i did the dumbest thing a few days ago. it was late and i was tired and cranky. i started the defragger and ran it for a few minutes. i was so annoyed by the noise the cpu was making that i shut off the power switch on the back while the defregmentation was still going. then my computer would not start windows, it would come up with and critical error saying it could not load windows. there where a few options to choose from. safemode. last recent settings that worked and normal. i tried all three and nothing, it went to the XP loading screen and loaded a few times then restarted the computer back to the error screen, so after not even being able to do restore i had to reinstall windows telling my cpu to read from the cd for files first, so windows did not have to start up. in the end im stuck with a brand new computer, unregistered version of windows and no gta games installed accept for san andreas. i had to reistall my gfx card, my sound card and all that other crap: quicktime, java, firefox, msn, etc. v6 is big news to me so ill just wait for that release before i get back into LC. phew long story anyways my pc was f*cked and now im pissed off at everybody. good luck with v6 my work is done here

[Ben]

You can always choose not to use the torrent - there will be http and maybe even ftp links for v6.

Sorry to hear about your PC - hope you can get it fixed and working properly again .

Cya round ...

[Konstantinos]

I think having the torrent is a good idea. BT is a great tool for distributing your files in a perfectly legal manner, wink wink. Even though it's no use to me because of my crappy internet connection. It's considerably fast (and wireless), but the provider downlimits all P2P systems to the point of uselessness. I remember it once took me a freaking 8 hours to download a 350 MB file with 4000+ seeders! Fair User Policy my a**, they are trying to combat piracy. What a load of crap! So, I'll stick to direct download. v5 only took me about 25 minutes.
BTW, it's great to see the forum up and running again! I was beginning to worry.