[EscoLehGo]

QUOTE (2191987 @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 02:12)

Your statement about Obamacare is fine, but the Mormon bashing really isn't needed.

No, it kind of is, I'm surprised it's not a bigger issue among conservative voters but I guess they figure anything is better than that dern Obambi/Oblunder/Obiglips etc. etc.

[S5L3T0]

QUOTE (2191987 @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 02:12)

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 00:57) this is relevant... "Mitt Romney says 'Obamacare' adds trillions to the deficit" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...llions-deficit/ honestly though you can't expect Mormons to understand issues of this magnitude. they believe in magic underwear, afterall. Your statement about Obamacare is fine, but the Mormon bashing really isn't needed.

It's always needed. Religion as a whole is just holding society back.

Sorry, I had to write it.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (twinkiller @ Sunday, Jul 1 2012, 17:42)

Just going to throw it out there, they do wear magic underwear. That is an actual Mormon thing.

QUOTE

no i will not retract my former statements.  If we had a bigger stimulus we would have put ourselves in even more debt for the long term picture for our economy.  Also sir, i would like to thank you for not cursing at me because of the points i make like the other person.  Maybe we can be internet friends.

No problem. I only curse at people who support Ron Paul (except Chunkyman, he gets to avoid my cursing because he is chunky and I feel bad for him) and come here and subscribe to wild conspiracy theories (the unfortunate thing is that they are usually the same people).

Anyway back to the discussion - what is putting us into debt is actually austerity. It's hard for people not educated on economics to grasp, but I'll try to explain it concisely. Basically, when you cut spending, you shrink the economy. It's that simple. That's why we cut spending and roll things back when the economy is booming, not when it is slivering along (like now). When we cut spending like we are now (state/local governments doing the most of the cutting) we face getting nothing in return (as we further contract the economy, add more to the unemployment lines, and let crumbling infrastructure fester). This results in actually further depressing the economy and therefore creating more debt in the long run as the tax base gets smaller. What do you get in the end of it all? Higher debt for nothing. You can increase spending right now and bring us out of this slump, and worry about the debt once things start moving along again. Or we can continue with this bullsh*t. Your choice.

[Chunkyman]

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 02:58)

(except Chunkyman, he gets to avoid my cursing because he is chunky and I feel bad for him)

lol, am I a special needs child now?

Hopefully I'm considered above the tin-foil hat wearers who talk of this "Illuminati" or "New World Order" stuff.

[EscoLehGo]

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 03:10)

Hopefully I'm considered above the tin-foil hat wearers who talk of this "Illuminati" or "New World Order" stuff.

I'd say you're at least 30% less scary than Lil Weasel and about 40% less scary than IM YOUR GOD, if that gives any kind of clarity.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (2191987 @ Sunday, Jul 1 2012, 19:12)

the Mormon bashing really isn't needed.

I beg to differ.

politicians wear their religion on their sleeve like it's a badge of honor.
it's not.

all religions are bat-sh*t crazy.
Mormonism happens to be especially nutty. it was invented by a con-artist. Joseph Smith was in prison on more than one occasion after being caught scamming people out of money. he tried all sorts of schemes before realizing that the easiest scam of all was religion. so he invented one and got people to give him money (and worship him...) "legally." it was also a great way to ensure that he could f*ck as many women as possible (Mormonism being based on polygamy).

the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon would certainly be the least of his (many) problems.
but it's still a problem.

[2191987]

While I agree that those who use religion as a political tool is not good thing, bringing up someone's religion as an example of how their opinion of another subject entirely is misguided is completely unnecessary. It does not make your opinion look any better.

This post has been edited by 2191987 on Tuesday, Jul 3 2012, 14:15

[El_Diablo]

whatever.

I think it's high time we stop pretending to respect religious beliefs.
they don't warrant respect.

[Pat]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 16:16)

I think it's high time we stop pretending to respect religious beliefs. they don't warrant respect.

It's one thing to abstain from following a religion, but it's another thing entirely to continuously bash it with no reason beyond "lol religion is stupid!" You're not doing anything productive here, you're just making yourself look like an intolerant ass.

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (Pat @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 15:02)

continuously bash it with no reason

I don't continually bash religion with no reason.
I bash religion when and where appropriate because religion is anti-reason and anti-logic which is universally dangerous.

certain presidential candidates wear their religion on their sleeve.
and we're discussing politics.

perfectly legit topic.

[EscoLehGo]

You can be tolerant of something without having any respect for it, respect and tolerance aren't really interchangeable.

[El_Diablo]

that's a good point.
I am a very tolerant person but tolerance has nothing to do with respect.

I don't say these things to a religious person's face the moment I learn they are religious.
plenty of my friends and members of my family are religious. they're still my friends and family. we still get along just fine.

I wouldn't disrespect their religion openly unless we were specifically having a religious discussion.
people can tolerate all sorts of things that they otherwise find incredulous.

[Jesus'En'Hitler420]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 22:10)

QUOTE (Pat @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 15:02) continuously bash it with no reason I don't continually bash religion with no reason. I bash religion when and where appropriate because religion is anti-reason and anti-logic which is universally dangerous. certain presidential candidates wear their religion on their sleeve. and we're discussing politics. perfectly legit topic.

You say you're discussing "politics" but all you're really doing is bashing religion in lieu of the fact that religion is a defining factor in politics in any democratic country. Religious views give people an idea of what you use as your moral compass and that is why religion is so involved in politics and that is why it is worn on the sleeve.

Also notice how I didn't bash religion or a particular religion. My religious beliefs have no context on how the political game is played, I used religion in a context that allowed me to discuss politics. If you were to stand in a doorway representing a candidate right now using the same language you have been when discussing Mormonism, the door would be shut in your face. The only people that wouldn't shut the door in your face are people that already agree with you and would laugh with you.

Religion is part of politics. It is not going anywhere, but trying to persuade somebody off a candidate by using his religion against him is incredibly off putting for anyone by my experience. It's akin to saying "Well, the presidential opponent is Jewish." Wow, what a landmine for your career.

This post has been edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420 on Monday, Jul 2 2012, 22:35

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE (Jesus'En'Hitler420 @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 15:31)

You say you're discussing "politics"

I was.
until you guys got your panties in a bunch about one little off-color remark I made.

but that's beside the point...

QUOTE

religion is a defining factor in politics in any democratic country.

that's just not true.

there are numerous democratic nations (mostly in Northern / Eastern Europe) whose politics are 100% secular.
no candidate mentions or discusses personal beliefs in virtually any context.

and that's the way it should be.

QUOTE

Religious views give people an idea of what you use as your moral compass

this is going to take us off topic, but if a person honestly believes that they need religion in order to have morals then that person is an idiot.

QUOTE

Also notice how I didn't bash religion or a particular religion. My religious beliefs have no context on how the political game is played, I used religion in a context that allowed me to discuss politics. If you were to stand in a doorway representing a candidate right now using the same language you have been when discussing Mormonism, the door would be shut in your face. The only people that wouldn't shut the door in your face are people that already agree with you and would laugh with you.

I really don't give a sh*t.
I'm not shy about saying what I feel.

the dialogue in this country - when it comes to religion - is broken.
everyone is afraid to discuss religion because everyone is scared of hurting somebody's feelings. oh well, too bad. I don't stand in doorways and represent candidates. I'm not a democrat or a republican. I talk about politics when politics is the discussion at hand and I vote for the guy who appears to be the lesser of evils.

everything in between is fair game (religion, family, etc).
especially when it's made public and becomes the plank of someone's candidacy.

QUOTE

Religion is part of politics.

it doesn't have to be.
there are plenty of places where it's not.

QUOTE

trying to persuade somebody off a candidate by using his religion against him is incredibly off putting for anyone by my experience. It's akin to saying "Well, the presidential opponent is Jewish." Wow, what a landmine for your career.

I ALREADY SAID that Mitt Romney's religion is the LEAST of his many problems.
my original little comment about Mormonism was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

you guys seized on it and made it a bigger issue than I ever implied.

[Irviding]

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 18:37)

you guys seized on it and made it a bigger issue than I ever implied.

Come on diablo you should know that by now. That's how Republicans always beat us.