[GTA_stu]

QUOTE (Robinski @ Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 18:35)

Duress and/or self-defence (which in English law can be defence of another) are general (i.e. complete) defences in our courts, so yeah if the law broken was in proportion with the distress of the person in need I'd do it. That's kind of why those defences are there; to prevent people from doing ultimately good things from going to prison. QUOTE (NaidRaida @ Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 18:08) I was also thinking about such topic but a bit different. "Would you throw a foreign man from a bridge - he will die - if you can save about ten other foreign people with your act?" So would you become a murder in order to save lifes/life? The more I think about it the more difficult the answer gets. It sounds easy but you´ll actually become a murder Utilitarianism at it's utmost would suggest you throw them right off that bridge at the first opportunity. And that you'd be happy about it too.

Especially if it's a dirty foreigner.

In all seriousness though If I had to kill someone in order to save the lives of others, I think I could just about manage it. I'd still feel guilty about it, but I'd feel worse if I allowed even more people to get killed. You'd do it for the greater good.

[NaidRaida]

QUOTE (Robinski @ Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 20:35)

throw them

I guess you mean "throw him" because of the context of your post.

If so: You would say the same if you need to throw a beloved person in order to save ten foreign people?
EDIT to below post: It´s most likely that I didn´t understand what you said like a native English speaker would do. I thought you stated what is actually your belief. Nevermind.
Then I handover the question to GTA_stu, his above expression was pretty clear to me.

This post has been edited by NaidRaida on Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 19:10

[Robinski]

I never said that's what I believed. I don't buy utilitarianism myself, I thought the "happy about it too" comment would give that away .

[Mr.Funny12]

Depending on the people I'm protecting then yes. If its someone close, or a friend who ddoesn't deserve what they're getting, I'd put myself on the line for them.

[guib]

Nope...
Don't have the courage to do it anyway.

[_____]

QUOTE (NaidRaida @ Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 21:08)

I was also thinking about such topic but a bit different. "Would you throw a foreign man from a bridge - he will die - if you can save about ten other foreign people with your act?" So would you become a murder in order to save lifes/life? The more I think about it the more difficult the answer gets. It sounds easy but you´ll actually become a murder. In a less dramatic situation I would break the law if no one else is harmed. That´s the line I would not cross. No one should be directly harmed. Getting harmed is diverse. Could be financial or something else. It really depends on the situation. I cannot give a blanket answer.

I would chose not to kill anybody, they would die yeah, but why should I be responsible for any one of their deaths, let alone murder?

Other people have put it this way: if you had the chance to save one man or ten other people, and all of them would be strangers to you, which would you pick to save? The one guy or the ten other people?

[NaidRaida]

Life is life, it doesn´t actually have a weight or an amount. I would rip my arm off to rescue as much as I can but I wouldn´t go that far and do an active homicide, even not to rescue anybody.

[goin-god]

The father of an old friend, who has passed away recently, was in a similar situation.
He was a soldier of the Argentinian army during the Falklands War (a war between my country and Great Britan in 1982). He had to shot one of his friends who was in shock during a battle.
This guy was manning a machingun, my friend's father said it was a grenade that exploded next to him wich made him start shooting like a maniac in all directions. There were more possibilities of him killing his friends than actually hitting a british soldier that was many meters away. My friend's dad was like 10 meters away or something. One of the bullets wounded one of his friends in the leg, he couldn't get any closer to the guy to stop him, he couldn't wait until he heated the gun or ran out of bullets. So he shot him twice.
Probably saved 10 or more of his friends. It wasn't easy for him.

[NaidRaida]

Definitely a dramatic situation and the way he acted makes sense.
If I could shoot a friend? I have doubts but again, it was a very dynamic and hazardous situation. Close to impossible to judge on such situation if you haven´t experienced such. At least I wouldn´t rebuke the shooter.

[SagaciousKJB]

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Tuesday, Feb 7 2012, 15:34)

Ok lets turn it up a notch since it seems everyone and his dog already breaks the law anyways. Could you kill someone, if you had to in order to save a close friend's life? The person who you have to kill is innocent. If you kill the person, then there's no chance that you will be found guilty or other repurcussions for you, other than the moral dilemma.

Without question. I'm not saying that I would do it without question, I'm saying that I have been prepared to do so in my life before. Circumstances have been fortunate for me that I have not had to. Especially since I probably would have been tried for murder in a couple of circumstances... Long story short, a buddy of mine got separated in a parking lot by some assholes just wanting to cause trouble. I pulled my knife and was going to stick it in the guy's lung. They ran off at the sight of it, and at the end of everything, all they had done was try to take our pizza.

There's not a lot of other laws I would break for others though. I've been propositioned to move drugs for people before, but I'm not really in favor of committing any felonies if I don't believe someone's life is on the line. I'm not saying pulling a knife on a guy for trying to take our pizza was a good move, but there was other things on my mind--like how my friend was 40 feet away already fighting two guys by himself in my sh*thole of a city. In any case, avoidable sh*t like getting pulled over with a ki of dope in your trunk, that kind of stuff I will tell you to go f*ck yourself on.

However, there is a certain level of "vigilantism" or "street justice" I guess I believe in, in some ways... You know those guys who beat their wives until finally the cops show up for the fifth time and arrest them for murder? That sh*t never happened to the women in my family. I was never a part of any of this myself, but my family was crazy... This one guy lodged a wrongful injury suit against my grandpa for years. Reason being? After the guy hit his ex-wife, he strapped him to the back of his VW and dragged his ass up and down the street.

I'm not really saying I condone much of any of this, but the thing is... Sometimes the justice system just doesn't give you the results you need. When that's the case, you've got to take matter into your own hands, or just be a victim. Not really saying I've got great discretion over here... Mr. Stab-A-Guy-For-My-Pizza... However, to a certain extent you've got to exact your own justice these days. That's the only place I really find it appropriate to break the laws for others. Put a bruise on someone I care about, and I don't care if I'm in jail tomorrow, you'll lose your teeth today.

[zoo3891]

QUOTE (NaidRaida @ Wednesday, Feb 8 2012, 14:08)

I was also thinking about such topic but a bit different. "Would you throw a foreign man from a bridge - he will die - if you can save about ten other foreign people with your act?" So would you become a murder in order to save lifes/life?

No, it wasn't my problem in the first place, so I should probably steer clear to avoid unnecessary problems. The ten foreigners wouldn't put me at blame, and neither would the one that chooses to stand on bridges if I didn't interfere with them.

[X-Seti]

Depends on the need.

There are many ways to help people without actually maliciously breaking the law.

Stealing to buy food or pay debts for survival has always been an issue, Metal theft is the best example.

Stealing food to feed your family seems to be a growing problem in the United Kingdom because your forced to pay the high cost of your energy bill.

Do you choose to keep warm or buy food? But do you really need to break the law if there is an organization out there to help you with food, housing, managing debts, etc. People need to let go of the pride they sometimes cling to in order to help themselves.


I was in a shop on the high street (Strip Mall) where I was over hearing 2 police officers talking to the store assistant about a woman stealing items for her baby.

This young mum had already stole from several other stores the same day.

What got me was she appeared to be smoking?

You could you look at this like if she stopped smoking she would have more money to pay for her babies needs and then she wouldn't need to steal.

There is one thing that I hate the most, people with drug addiction stealing from others to get there fix.