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 Grand Theft Auto IV
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Coops and Crooks
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Crimson Flam3s  |
 Posted: Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 01:24
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You are good, but not good enough!
Group: Members
Joined: Feb 11, 2012
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Does anyone here think that coops and crooks it's one of the modes that has the best players?
You have chases, lots of gunfights, helicopter fights and use lots of tactics. Anything can happen
I noticed CnC is where most high ranked people play and were you truly see the value of a good player, their driving skills, survival sills, shooting skills, but most importantly team work.
The game mode does have it flaws like when the cops are spawned sooo close to the crooks, the crooks keep getting respawned around the cops who slaughter them mercilessly (happened many times when I was cop/crook) and getaway vehicle spawn.
Would you guys like CnC in GTAV with a few twists that will make it even better?
Here are some ideas to have a better and more fun game.
-A better version in One for All were you get to choose how many lives you have. ( 1-5 maybe?)
-Text Chat when you are in the Lobby to get everyone organized and don't kick people mindlessly
-Text chat between team members for those who don't have a microphone
-Choose who the boss is, so you won't get a new player who will die too quickly.
-putting a restriction level so only people who have ranks x trough x can join ( I really don't care about these but I see people making these matches and kicking lower ranks even if they are good)
-If the getaway is destroyed, it will be respawned at a completely random place
-Getaway is always spawned at a random place. There are 0 patterns to determine were it's located.
- A crook can share his weapons/body armor with the boss.
-Getaway diversity. You can get away in Cars, helicopters, planes, etc.
-And finally the best twist to CnC would be the ability for the Boss to surrender!
The cops could choose to either kill or tell the boss to surrender. If the boss it's cornered and decides to surrender then the cops must take him back to the police station and the crooks would have to rescue him. If the cops successfully capture the boss without killing him, then they get a lot of money (double?) and if the crooks successfully rescue him they also get that $ bonus.
What do you think? Do you have any other ideas?
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| SARDYNA108 |
Posted: Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 15:30
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Spammaster
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 26, 2011
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| QUOTE (Crimson Flam3s @ Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 01:24) | | Does anyone here think that coops and crooks it's one of the modes that has the best players? |
 - most of CnC players are unskilled noobs, even old CnC players are bad at shooting but they are usualy good at other skills needed in CnC (flying, driving etc), they dont know anything about this game and cry all the time about lags and glitches (at least on PC) [  - good idea - bad idea ] | QUOTE | You have chases, lots of gunfights, helicopter fights and use lots of tactics. Anything can happen
I noticed CnC is where most high ranked people play and were you truly see the value of a good player, their driving skills, survival sills, shooting skills, but most importantly team work. |
CnC players usualy dont care about rank at all (PC) | QUOTE | | The game mode does have it flaws like when the cops are spawned sooo close to the crooks, the crooks keep getting respawned around the cops who slaughter them mercilessly (happened many times when I was cop/crook) and getaway vehicle spawn. |
Thats true | QUOTE | | Would you guys like CnC in GTAV with a few twists that will make it even better? |
Of course, if there wont be game mode such as CnC V multiplayer wont be as good as IV | QUOTE | Here are some ideas to have a better and more fun game.
-A better version in One for All were you get to choose how many lives you have. ( 1-5 maybe?) |
One for All is a good competitive variation of CnC but lets let it stay in IV | QUOTE | -Text Chat when you are in the Lobby to get everyone organized and don't kick people mindlessly
-Text chat between team members for those who don't have a microphone |
On PC we have text chat (in lobby, teamchat and chat to everyone in game not just team) I cant imagine how you can play IV without text chat on X360/PS3 specially in game modes like CnC where the teamwork is most important part of a game | QUOTE | | -Choose who the boss is, so you won't get a new player who will die too quickly. |
Yes, boss should be somehow choosen but not by players but by game, for example person with highest rank or TrueSkill in lobby should be most often the boss | QUOTE | | -putting a restriction level so only people who have ranks x trough x can join ( I really don't care about these but I see people making these matches and kicking lower ranks even if they are good) |
Thats good idea, there should be separated lobbys for each rank | QUOTE | | -If the getaway is destroyed, it will be respawned at a completely random place |
It shouldnt be respawned but it should be very hard to destroy and there should be more than just 1 geatway vechicle | QUOTE | | -Getaway is always spawned at a random place. There are 0 patterns to determine were it's located. |
That wont happen anyway, destroying getaway is sometimes the right thing to do when boss is camping in glitched area for example | QUOTE | | - A crook can share his weapons/body armor with the boss. |
Thats the best of your ideas, it would be very usefull | QUOTE | | -Getaway diversity. You can get away in Cars, helicopters, planes, etc. |
Yes but cars arent good idea | QUOTE | -And finally the best twist to CnC would be the ability for the Boss to surrender!
The cops could choose to either kill or tell the boss to surrender. If the boss it's cornered and decides to surrender then the cops must take him back to the police station and the crooks would have to rescue him. If the cops successfully capture the boss without killing him, then they get a lot of money (double?) and if the crooks successfully rescue him they also get that $ bonus. |
Thats a nice idea but that would make the game too complicated |
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| Crimson Flam3s |
Posted: Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 21:46
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You are good, but not good enough!
Group: Members
Joined: Feb 11, 2012
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| QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 15:30) | | QUOTE (Crimson Flam3s @ Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 01:24) | | Does anyone here think that coops and crooks it's one of the modes that has the best players? |
- most of CnC players are unskilled noobs, even old CnC players are bad at shooting but they are usualy good at other skills needed in CnC (flying, driving etc), they dont know anything about this game and cry all the time about lags and glitches (at least on PC)
[ - good idea - bad idea ]
| QUOTE | You have chases, lots of gunfights, helicopter fights and use lots of tactics. Anything can happen
I noticed CnC is where most high ranked people play and were you truly see the value of a good player, their driving skills, survival sills, shooting skills, but most importantly team work. |
CnC players usualy dont care about rank at all (PC)
| QUOTE | | The game mode does have it flaws like when the cops are spawned sooo close to the crooks, the crooks keep getting respawned around the cops who slaughter them mercilessly (happened many times when I was cop/crook) and getaway vehicle spawn. |
Thats true
| QUOTE | | Would you guys like CnC in GTAV with a few twists that will make it even better? |
Of course, if there wont be game mode such as CnC V multiplayer wont be as good as IV
| QUOTE | Here are some ideas to have a better and more fun game.
-A better version in One for All were you get to choose how many lives you have. ( 1-5 maybe?) |
One for All is a good competitive variation of CnC but lets let it stay in IV
| QUOTE | -Text Chat when you are in the Lobby to get everyone organized and don't kick people mindlessly
-Text chat between team members for those who don't have a microphone |
On PC we have text chat (in lobby, teamchat and chat to everyone in game not just team) I cant imagine how you can play IV without text chat on X360/PS3 specially in game modes like CnC where the teamwork is most important part of a game
| QUOTE | | -Choose who the boss is, so you won't get a new player who will die too quickly. |
Yes, boss should be somehow choosen but not by players but by game, for example person with highest rank or TrueSkill in lobby should be most often the boss
| QUOTE | | -putting a restriction level so only people who have ranks x trough x can join ( I really don't care about these but I see people making these matches and kicking lower ranks even if they are good) |
Thats good idea, there should be separated lobbys for each rank
| QUOTE | | -If the getaway is destroyed, it will be respawned at a completely random place |
It shouldnt be respawned but it should be very hard to destroy and there should be more than just 1 geatway vechicle
| QUOTE | | -Getaway is always spawned at a random place. There are 0 patterns to determine were it's located. |
That wont happen anyway, destroying getaway is sometimes the right thing to do when boss is camping in glitched area for example
| QUOTE | | - A crook can share his weapons/body armor with the boss. |
Thats the best of your ideas, it would be very usefull
| QUOTE | | -Getaway diversity. You can get away in Cars, helicopters, planes, etc. |
Yes but cars arent good idea
| QUOTE | -And finally the best twist to CnC would be the ability for the Boss to surrender!
The cops could choose to either kill or tell the boss to surrender. If the boss it's cornered and decides to surrender then the cops must take him back to the police station and the crooks would have to rescue him. If the cops successfully capture the boss without killing him, then they get a lot of money (double?) and if the crooks successfully rescue him they also get that $ bonus. |
Thats a nice idea but that would make the game too complicated |
When I said it has the best players I meant that most of the high ranks play it. I don't see lots of high ranks on other modes like in CnC\ Also how would making the getaway "harder to destroy help" if the cops are alredy going at it then chances are they gonna continue until it get's destroyed, although I liked other idea. Having 2 getaways so if the crooks are camping or something or the cops just went to destroy yours. when you get away in cars it could be this way, you drive a certain distance in order to win like a couple miles to make it more realistic. And about making the boss surrender, It think it would make it more realistic and exciting. -For the cops: You get a nice challenge or trying to take the boss to the station, get lot of money and if it looks like the the crooks will rescue him then you can just press o bottom to kill him if your in a car for example or just shoot him. For the crooks: they get a lot of money and another chance to win.  I know it's a bit complicated but it would make it a bit more interesting and it's not like the cops have to making him surrender, they can just kill him. _______________________________________________ Thanks ajbns87  |
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| Jimbatron |
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Homeboy
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
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| QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 15:30) | | QUOTE (Crimson Flam3s @ Thursday, Apr 5 2012, 01:24) | | Does anyone here think that coops and crooks it's one of the modes that has the best players? |
- most of CnC players are unskilled noobs, even old CnC players are bad at shooting but they are usualy good at other skills needed in CnC (flying, driving etc), they dont know anything about this game and cry all the time about lags and glitches (at least on PC)
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It is worth pointing out that this guy got banned from our servers for repeatedly using glitches and not obeying the house rules we have that everyone else respects. As for CnC players not being able to shoot or being noobs, well, as I remember, Sardyna used to get owned regularly by the vast majority of people. The stats on the leaderboard speak for themselves - his win ratio in CnC matches is not good. Probably because he spent a lot of time messing around with Tug boats rather than helping his team mates win the match. True, the average player is not as good at shooting as a hardcore TDM player, but it is a different game where you are not always on foot, and when you put a TDM player in CnC, their kill/death ratio is not as good, because it's a different style of play. Sardy, perhaps you should tell the likes of Alekc Holland, michelroggt, roland1905, Stringer Bell, JohnyzCze, LukeDuke, Tade (to name but a few) that you think they can't shoot. I'll put money on them owning you time and time again. |
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| Jimbatron |
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Homeboy
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
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@Crimson Flam3s -
I'm glad you like the mode - I'm one of the regulars on the PC platform (currently 19th on the Player board I think).
I think there are very skilled players in any mode you look at on GTA IV, but to do well at CnC you need to be a good all round talent. You need to be able to shoot, drive, fly a helicopter, know the map well, and be able to work well as a team. In TDM it is obviously all about being exceptional at one skill, shooting i.e. King of one trade, rather than Jack of all. There are other things you learn as well because it is of more tactical value in this mode that you won't do so much in others, things like shooting down helicopters, mastery of the sniper rifle, using the subway to escape etc.
Have a look at my videos on Youtube (links in the signature) to get an idea of how we play the mode on the PC.
I like some of your ideas and can understand where the thinking comes from. With regard to getaways respawning, the problem with that is that the Crooks would probably have an incentive to blow it up themsleves, getting a random respawn and which would make the Cops job impossible. I think a good solution would be to either make the getaway vehicle indestructible, or for the Cops to get no extra points if it is destroyed i.e. if they blow it up and their Boss is killed next round, the other team is likely to win because they will get the +$1000.
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| EL_FUGA |
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Group: Members
Joined: Sep 23, 2009
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| QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 10:14) | | I think there are very skilled players in any mode you look at on GTA IV, but to do well at CnC you need to be a good all round talent. You need to be able to shoot, drive, fly a helicopter, know the map well, and be able to work well as a team. In TDM it is obviously all about being exceptional at one skill, shooting i.e. King of one trade, rather than Jack of all. There are other things you learn as well because it is of more tactical value in this mode that you won't do so much in others, things like shooting down helicopters, mastery of the sniper rifle, using the subway to escape etc. |
agree 100% |
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| SARDYNA108 |
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Spammaster
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 26, 2011
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| QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 08:48) | | It is worth pointing out that this guy got banned from our servers for repeatedly using glitches and not obeying the house rules we have that everyone else respects. |
"the house rules" just dont need to be taken so strictly and everyone would be happy, some players cant have fun in CnC becouse all they must to do is worrying about the rules | QUOTE | | As for CnC players not being able to shoot or being noobs, well, as I remember, Sardyna used to get owned regularly by the vast majority of people. The stats on the leaderboard speak for themselves - his win ratio in CnC matches is not good. Probably because he spent a lot of time messing around with Tug boats rather than helping his team mates win the match. |
My won/lost and kill/dead ratios in CnC both are possitive, yes maybe I got owned long time ago when I wasnt so good as now | QUOTE | | True, the average player is not as good at shooting as a hardcore TDM player, but it is a different game where you are not always on foot, and when you put a TDM player in CnC, their kill/death ratio is not as good, because it's a different style of play. |
Yes thats true, just look at this screens: http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/121753470-4.jpghttp://screenshot.xfire.com/s/121753478-4.jpgN1 is one of best TDM clans if you dont know, we played with them many CnC games but they won just 1 of like 20 games | QUOTE | | Sardy, perhaps you should tell the likes of Alekc Holland, michelroggt, roland1905, Stringer Bell, JohnyzCze, LukeDuke, Tade (to name but a few) that you think they can't shoot. I'll put money on them owning you time and time again. |
Im always ready for 1vs1 if thats what are you talking about, you would probably lost some money. Anyway Im always laughing when I see you coming to TDM and asking for reticule on becouse "its easy to see if someone cheats", if you would know more about this game you would just trust other regular TDM players becouse they know who use cheats and who dont, also you dont need reticule to check if someone use god mode, you can just look at his blip if you know what I mean. I like to play with reticule on too but no one else like it so dont ask about it
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| Jimbatron |
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Homeboy
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
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| QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 15:12) | | QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 08:48) | | It is worth pointing out that this guy got banned from our servers for repeatedly using glitches and not obeying the house rules we have that everyone else respects. |
"the house rules" just dont need to be taken so strictly and everyone would be happy, some players cant have fun in CnC becouse all they must to do is worrying about the rules
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The guys do have fun - that's why they've kept coming back for three years and new people keep joining. This is your problem in a nutshell. Your idea of fun involved ruining eveyone else's. Rather than accepting you were annoying people and adjusting your style of play out of respect for others, you kept on pulling the same tricks, until everyone (including me, after giving you many, many chances) had finally had enough of you. You need to learn a serious life lesson from this for when you get a job, otherwise it is going to hold you back (I estimate aboud $10,000 per year in terms of missed promotion opportunities) - this is actually more important than the game, and I hope for your sake you realise this. Calling the PC CnC regulars noobs and suggesting they don't know the game is laughable. |
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| Crimson Flam3s |
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You are good, but not good enough!
Group: Members
Joined: Feb 11, 2012
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| QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 09:14) | @Crimson Flam3s -
I'm glad you like the mode - I'm one of the regulars on the PC platform (currently 19th on the Player board I think).
I think there are very skilled players in any mode you look at on GTA IV, but to do well at CnC you need to be a good all round talent. You need to be able to shoot, drive, fly a helicopter, know the map well, and be able to work well as a team. In TDM it is obviously all about being exceptional at one skill, shooting i.e. King of one trade, rather than Jack of all. There are other things you learn as well because it is of more tactical value in this mode that you won't do so much in others, things like shooting down helicopters, mastery of the sniper rifle, using the subway to escape etc.
Have a look at my videos on Youtube (links in the signature) to get an idea of how we play the mode on the PC.
I like some of your ideas and can understand where the thinking comes from. With regard to getaways respawning, the problem with that is that the Crooks would probably have an incentive to blow it up themsleves, getting a random respawn and which would make the Cops job impossible. I think a good solution would be to either make the getaway vehicle indestructible, or for the Cops to get no extra points if it is destroyed i.e. if they blow it up and their Boss is killed next round, the other team is likely to win because they will get the +$1000. |
Thanks Jimbatron I had actually actually seen some of your videos before and I really like the way you guys play. I recently saw the video with the tug boat  I do agree 100% with you about CnC being the mode were you need to be all rounded up. That's the reason I like it so much and because anything can happen on it, you have helicopter battles, car chases, some people even make it a TDM, snipers camping, and lot's of strategy, but like I said teamwork is the most important thing. I bet if everyone on psn had a headset, which I don't have yet  , or chat like in pc, games could be even better. I notice that when high ranks play together, even without any communication, they got flawless teamwork and such but if you put a couple high ranks with normal players then they get killed faster... I wish psn had chat  The problem with making it indestructible is that if the boss and co are in the gv, and a cop happens to have an rpg and blows then up when they are fleeing then it wouldn't count. I for one have luckily sniped the boss when he was taking off in a boat, luckily he wans't too far, and sniped a boss in a chopper by camping but that wouldn't be possible if the gv is undestructible. I like your idea of the cops getting no extra points if they destroy it, but what if the boss was inside of it? Also if a crook decide to destroy the gv then IMO It would give more chances to the cops. Remember that the cops have more advantages like seeing all the crooks locations anytime anywhere and that alone is enough to overwhelm even a good team. It's funny that when got gta about 4 months ago and started playing CnC I and most people I played with, tried to get to the gv as soon as possible but when you play are and play with high ranks, the norm is to stay and fight till you die, or after killing the cops for a while escape. If you go straight away for the gv then your looked down upon. |
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| Jimbatron |
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Homeboy
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
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| QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 20:50) | | QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Apr 8 2012, 16:20) | | Calling the PC CnC regulars noobs and suggesting they don't know the game is laughable. |
Its not becouse 3 years after the game release we had to explain them some basics like corner glitch or spining heli with mouse |
The reason for that is they don't look for glitches because they play with honesty. @Crimson Flam3s - I think it would work if you still got the +$1,000 if you killed the Boss while he was in the getaway, but no extra points for destroying the vehicle itself (if he is not in it). I have heard that on the PS3 and Xbox360 players as Boss will try to survive as long as possible, but it just doesn't work on the PC. The players are all very evenly matched, and the Cops only need to get lucky once, so the Boss will not live very long unless he makes a run for it. But just not straight to the getaway, as he may be sniped there. In a heli though, a good pilot can survive for over an hour even with Cop helicopters chasing him.
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| ajbns87 |
Posted: Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 11:14
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Boss
Group: Members
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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Looks like we might of got a new unofficial cops n crooks discussion topic going here again A boss that doesn't encounter cops and then tries to escape, should always be prepared for a sniper. As boss, I've pretended that I'm about to enter...and then heard a few shots from a sniper, and made a dash for safety. Experienced players know the spots sniper's might use, so hunting them out and making the getaway safe is always a fun challenge, not seen on consoles anymore, apart from the few times during the CnC events I held. The whole TDM - boss survival game, is fun, but too often in my opinion players will exploit any advantage, fair or unfair they can get. If it's played fair and the boss / cops are fair and not purely dependent on a combination of corner shooting / interior shotgun camping / respawn killing it is a very unique and challenging game. A combination of escaping / TDM style is perfect, cops should never relax and the boss should always try to ultimately escape. At the same time, a boss that runs straight to the GV, without stopping, shouldn't be looked down on, because the cops should always be ready for a car chase. Headsets can help, but personally I play better when I'm not chatting |
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| Jimbatron |
Posted: Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 11:27
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Homeboy
Group: Members
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
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Some great points AJ - quite often I dummy going for the getaway, jumping away if I hear a sniper. You are right there are certain sniper spots every regular players know - the construcion site in South Bohan opposite the Boat House is just one that springs to mind.
With re-spawn killing, we discourage this in our servers. Otherwise, a cop with an SMG can run around killing about 10 Crooks a minute as they respawn only with pistols. It is difficult though, becuase how long exactly should it be before a Crook is fair game? My view is they should at least be given time to pick up a weapon (and not shot in the back as they pick it up - some people used to camp on weapon spawns with RPGs!) Also if they are moving in on the getaway, or the Boss is on the same screen and they are blocking the path, or fire back, then I think that is fair game to shoot them.
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| Crimson Flam3s |
Posted: Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 23:30
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You are good, but not good enough!
Group: Members
Joined: Feb 11, 2012
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| QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 11:14) | Looks like we might of got a new unofficial cops n crooks discussion topic going here again
A boss that doesn't encounter cops and then tries to escape, should always be prepared for a sniper.
As boss, I've pretended that I'm about to enter...and then heard a few shots from a sniper, and made a dash for safety.
Experienced players know the spots sniper's might use, so hunting them out and making the getaway safe is always a fun challenge, not seen on consoles anymore, apart from the few times during the CnC events I held.
The whole TDM - boss survival game, is fun, but too often in my opinion players will exploit any advantage, fair or unfair they can get. If it's played fair and the boss / cops are fair and not purely dependent on a combination of corner shooting / interior shotgun camping / respawn killing it is a very unique and challenging game.
A combination of escaping / TDM style is perfect, cops should never relax and the boss should always try to ultimately escape.
At the same time, a boss that runs straight to the GV, without stopping, shouldn't be looked down on, because the cops should always be ready for a car chase.
Headsets can help, but personally I play better when I'm not chatting |
I agree with you In the past, I played with this dude (maybe you know him, his psn is something like Omn1pot3nt_420 ) who always knows the GV location, will try to annoy you 1000 different ways and was pretty good but a cheater in general. Funny thing is, he was bragging about having a 9 kill to death ratio but he always plays with low ranks, he told me high ranks hated him because he was too good or something like that, I cant remember... He either destroys the getaway or camp with his sniper there, so I learned to get close to the getaway, point for one of my crooks to try to get it, if he get's sniped then I have to take another route. if not then were good. what I do is that I get a chopper and fly the area around the gv checking for someone camping, if I do find them then my partner will give them a little explosive present  trow grenades all around him, if he survives then I try to blade him or let my partner do the dirty job. I have gotten better with the sniper, I have killed bosses who basically had won, their boats were too far from the coast kill them except they kept going in a straight line and I used that to my advantage, also killed a boss piloting the escape vehicle and a boss in a escape boat doing circles and honking close to the coast, too bad I got lucky. You guy's won't believe me how many times a sniper has saved my team when the boss is basically getting on the gv and you just happen to have the perfect spot to take him out. I love sniper rifles  This post has been edited by Crimson Flam3s on Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 23:37
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| ajbns87 |
Posted: Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 01:59
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Boss
Group: Members
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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Omn1P0tent420 is a pure pussy, vs myself and a few noobs on one for all autoaim, he stole the boat and destroyed it, not once but twice. Kick him out, if he is your friend tell him The Damned_ eat players like him for breakfast, autoaiming noob. Thanks Jimbratron, good thoughts about a respawn rule, it's a nice feeling when you manage to kill a respawn killer  with your pistol whilst they attempt drivebys. |
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|
.
